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You seem to be under the impression that I approve of Gene Simmons' sentiments, which I do not, at all. I'm just saying that being [thing] does not necessarily make your opinion on [thing] valid. All these jazz musicians may be buggin' about sampling, but Steve Reich has no problem with it. "This guy says this" isn't a valid argument, is what I'm saying.
There's also the matter of a quote you said earlier which was, "I don't want to dance to electronic music, I want to listen to it."
...So don't dance to it! Listen to the stuff you like and let the people who want to dance, dance. You'll be rockin' some Klaus Schulze and the kids in the club will be gettin' down to deadmau5 and everyone can end up happy.
I agree with you. But this is a case of somebody coming along and taking the music which you, the artist, wrote long ago and mixing it with a dance tune. Do you not see how insulting that is to the artist? It's okay if Steve Reich enjoys it ....fine! But where do DJ'S get the nerve to pull excerpts of Tangerine Dream's Rubycon and mix it in with a disco type dance tune? What the hell is up with that? And that is where I have been going this whole entire time! Do you think Prog fans on this site would appreciate hearing excerpts from Jethro Tull's Passion Play mixed into a dance tune? or have they no pride? Since when is it cool to borrow artistic music from Berlin and associate it with something that it had little to do with during it's invention? Why? Just because it's 2010? I don't buy into that exceptence during any decade. That is just insulting garbage to hear electronic creations of the past dipped into dance material! Boy, that really says a lot for the Berlin School of Electronics. I know there are electronic artists who go with the flow and smile about it but, there are also great rock guitarists from the 60's and 70's who wrote fine rock music and are going with the flow by recording and releasing commercial contrived garbage for labels. It has little justice to my point. It's still dis-respectful to steal, borrow, and mix interesting music with dance tunes. It's not all good. Peoiple in the rock world disliked disco music throughout the 70's. Fans and musicians. It had little to do with rock music other than over throwing the reputation of it and attempting to push real honest rock music by the wayside. Today, dance music is more widley accepted. It should remain in it's own fenced in area. Leave other styles alone, since the rock world had little respect for it back in the hey day of the rock world reality.
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10617
Posted: October 15 2010 at 06:53
TODDLER wrote:
40footwolf wrote:
You seem to be under the impression that I approve of Gene Simmons' sentiments, which I do not, at all. I'm just saying that being [thing] does not necessarily make your opinion on [thing] valid. All these jazz musicians may be buggin' about sampling, but Steve Reich has no problem with it. "This guy says this" isn't a valid argument, is what I'm saying.
There's also the matter of a quote you said earlier which was, "I don't want to dance to electronic music, I want to listen to it."
...So don't dance to it! Listen to the stuff you like and let the people who want to dance, dance. You'll be rockin' some Klaus Schulze and the kids in the club will be gettin' down to deadmau5 and everyone can end up happy.
I agree with you. But this is a case of somebody coming along and taking the music which you, the artist, wrote long ago and mixing it with a dance tune. Do you not see how insulting that is to the artist? It's okay if Steve Reich enjoys it ....fine! But where do DJ'S get the nerve to pull excerpts of Tangerine Dream's Rubycon and mix it in with a disco type dance tune? What the hell is up with that? And that is where I have been going this whole entire time! Do you think Prog fans on this site would appreciate hearing excerpts from Jethro Tull's Passion Play mixed into a dance tune? or have they no pride? Since when is it cool to borrow artistic music from Berlin and associate it with something that it had little to do with during it's invention? Why? Just because it's 2010? I don't buy into that exceptence during any decade. That is just insulting garbage to hear electronic creations of the past dipped into dance material! Boy, that really says a lot for the Berlin School of Electronics. I know there are electronic artists who go with the flow and smile about it but, there are also great rock guitarists from the 60's and 70's who wrote fine rock music and are going with the flow by recording and releasing commercial contrived garbage for labels. It has little justice to my point. It's still dis-respectful to steal, borrow, and mix interesting music with dance tunes. It's not all good. Peoiple in the rock world disliked disco music throughout the 70's. Fans and musicians. It had little to do with rock music other than over throwing the reputation of it and attempting to push real honest rock music by the wayside. Today, dance music is more widley accepted. It should remain in it's own fenced in area. Leave other styles alone, since the rock world had little respect for it back in the hey day of the rock world reality.
Dance music is good for people, good for the soul, mind and body. People dancing in large groups like at the parties I perform at, whether its old school funk or modern day electronica, is a carthatic experience, almost spiritual. I'm sorry if you as a musician have never experienced such uplifting phenomena.
I have had my electronic music sampled and I have heard about it being used on mix tapes without my permission, I'm glad somebody used it.
You seem to be under the impression that I approve of Gene Simmons' sentiments, which I do not, at all. I'm just saying that being [thing] does not necessarily make your opinion on [thing] valid. All these jazz musicians may be buggin' about sampling, but Steve Reich has no problem with it. "This guy says this" isn't a valid argument, is what I'm saying.
There's also the matter of a quote you said earlier which was, "I don't want to dance to electronic music, I want to listen to it."
...So don't dance to it! Listen to the stuff you like and let the people who want to dance, dance. You'll be rockin' some Klaus Schulze and the kids in the club will be gettin' down to deadmau5 and everyone can end up happy.
I agree with you. But this is a case of somebody coming along and taking the music which you, the artist, wrote long ago and mixing it with a dance tune. Do you not see how insulting that is to the artist? It's okay if Steve Reich enjoys it ....fine! But where do DJ'S get the nerve to pull excerpts of Tangerine Dream's Rubycon and mix it in with a disco type dance tune? What the hell is up with that? And that is where I have been going this whole entire time! Do you think Prog fans on this site would appreciate hearing excerpts from Jethro Tull's Passion Play mixed into a dance tune? or have they no pride? Since when is it cool to borrow artistic music from Berlin and associate it with something that it had little to do with during it's invention? Why? Just because it's 2010? I don't buy into that exceptence during any decade. That is just insulting garbage to hear electronic creations of the past dipped into dance material! Boy, that really says a lot for the Berlin School of Electronics. I know there are electronic artists who go with the flow and smile about it but, there are also great rock guitarists from the 60's and 70's who wrote fine rock music and are going with the flow by recording and releasing commercial contrived garbage for labels. It has little justice to my point. It's still dis-respectful to steal, borrow, and mix interesting music with dance tunes. It's not all good. Peoiple in the rock world disliked disco music throughout the 70's. Fans and musicians. It had little to do with rock music other than over throwing the reputation of it and attempting to push real honest rock music by the wayside. Today, dance music is more widley accepted. It should remain in it's own fenced in area. Leave other styles alone, since the rock world had little respect for it back in the hey day of the rock world reality.
Dance music is good for people, good for the soul, mind and body. People dancing in large groups like at the parties I perform at, whether its old school funk or modern day electronica, is a carthatic experience, almost spiritual. I'm sorry if you as a musician have never experienced such uplifting phenomena. I have had my electronic music sampled and I have heard about it being used on mix tapes without my permission, I'm glad somebody used it.
I performed in dance bands and horn bands for decades....believe me I know the wonderful time a crowd has with it! However, back then, we were not stealing or even using sections of writers songs. The samples which are used in dance music, whether it be classic rock, mainstream soul hits, or electronic are the ownership of the writer in the real world. If artists who write the songs feel that the relationship of the song in the context of a dance song is fine standards then, let it be so. However, that may have to do with money, more publicity for an old song that presently has none, and if the writer is welcoming the option then it's his personal decision. All fine.
In the real world though, dedicated musicians and singer songwriters have applied things such as practices. Part of professional minded practices is to have a humble attitude and only borrow a snippet of another writer's piece or add the influence of the writer's style to your own vocabulary. Jimi Hendrix, The Beatles, Procol Harum, Joni Mitchell etc.The popularity of sampling famous songs throughout a dance piece has become worldwide but, realistically it is stealing music and using it for something else which is offending to many writers. In a different sense though. It's actually toying around with righteousness and lacks real glory but, that's okay if many like it? I don't know, that seems a little contrived to me.
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10617
Posted: October 15 2010 at 09:09
It depends on how the sampling is being done. The first time I heard a sampled and looped James Brown beat I thought I had found musical nirvana and set about getting a rhythm section that could play in this DJ oriented style because that's the foundation I wanted to build my solos and melodies on.
I'm glad James finally got paid for a lot of that too, he deserved it.
On the other hand, when guys like Vanilla Ice and Hammer sample a whole song and add lame rhymes, that is just commercial fluff for making money, but this happens in any genre of music, there is quality music and less than quality music.
You seem to be under the impression that I approve of Gene Simmons' sentiments, which I do not, at all. I'm just saying that being [thing] does not necessarily make your opinion on [thing] valid. All these jazz musicians may be buggin' about sampling, but Steve Reich has no problem with it. "This guy says this" isn't a valid argument, is what I'm saying.
There's also the matter of a quote you said earlier which was, "I don't want to dance to electronic music, I want to listen to it."
...So don't dance to it! Listen to the stuff you like and let the people who want to dance, dance. You'll be rockin' some Klaus Schulze and the kids in the club will be gettin' down to deadmau5 and everyone can end up happy.
I agree with you. But this is a case of somebody coming along and taking the music which you, the artist, wrote long ago and mixing it with a dance tune. Do you not see how insulting that is to the artist? It's okay if Steve Reich enjoys it ....fine! But where do DJ'S get the nerve to pull excerpts of Tangerine Dream's Rubycon and mix it in with a disco type dance tune? What the hell is up with that? And that is where I have been going this whole entire time! Do you think Prog fans on this site would appreciate hearing excerpts from Jethro Tull's Passion Play mixed into a dance tune? or have they no pride? Since when is it cool to borrow artistic music from Berlin and associate it with something that it had little to do with during it's invention? Why? Just because it's 2010? I don't buy into that exceptence during any decade. That is just insulting garbage to hear electronic creations of the past dipped into dance material! Boy, that really says a lot for the Berlin School of Electronics. I know there are electronic artists who go with the flow and smile about it but, there are also great rock guitarists from the 60's and 70's who wrote fine rock music and are going with the flow by recording and releasing commercial contrived garbage for labels. It has little justice to my point. It's still dis-respectful to steal, borrow, and mix interesting music with dance tunes. It's not all good. Peoiple in the rock world disliked disco music throughout the 70's. Fans and musicians. It had little to do with rock music other than over throwing the reputation of it and attempting to push real honest rock music by the wayside. Today, dance music is more widley accepted. It should remain in it's own fenced in area. Leave other styles alone, since the rock world had little respect for it back in the hey day of the rock world reality.
So would hearing music by The Avalanches, a group that creates music ENTIRELY out of samples, cause you to have an aneurysm?
You rant and rave about the villainy and sloth of using samples, but I dunno, I don't see any of that when I listen to music like this. I just hear fun music.
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
Posted: October 15 2010 at 16:04
Toddler: you must realize that a good sample-based piece of music, when done right, can become an original, valid entity of art on its own. I used to feel exactly the same way you do about now, but then the strangest thing happened. I actually started listening to it.
When an artist uses his tools, the art itself becomes the result, not bits and pieces of ideas. When a worker who imitates art takes a stab at the same thing, all you see and hear are the bits and pieces. Why? because it takes a true artist to make all those ideas work well together. Otherwise, all you have are the elements themselves without any real substance or direction.
The same is true with music, and it's doubly true for sample-based and electronic music, in my view. If someone who has no idea what he's doing comes along and attempts to create art out of beeps, samples and synthesized drum beats, of course he's not going to do anything special, because the ingredients alone don't make good music. With DJs, it's even trickier, because they are using clips of pre-existing material and are challenged with making something new from them. But I can tell you now that when it's done the right way, I don't even hear the sampled clips. I hear the entire piece as its own, unique entity. That's art, my friend.
Joined: April 10 2010
Location: Goiânia-Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 682
Posted: October 16 2010 at 18:42
Awesome (old) news! Kanye is not destroying KC's music, he's making
mainstream listeners search for different bands. And KC is not the only
band that he sampled. Take a look on this:
Can is a lot influencial outside progland(more influencial on alternative rock and rap than prog I think), but is a too obscured band. Kanye just tried to brought Can to the masses.
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Posted: October 14 2010 at 15:11
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40footwolf wrote: