Bad News for King Crimson Fans
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71939
Printed Date: November 26 2024 at 07:55
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Topic: Bad News for King Crimson Fans
Posted By: AFBerk010
Subject: Bad News for King Crimson Fans
Date Posted: October 05 2010 at 15:21
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It is with a pain in my chest that I write this short entry. As I was driving home from school today, my sister (who has poor taste on music), turned on the new Kanye West single. I am by no means a Kanye fan so I tried my darndest to ignore it and imagine a better song. Unfortunately I was shocked out of this state when I heard a sampling or the classic opener from "In the Court of the Crimson King", "21st Century Schizoid Man". Sickened, I felt that I had to share this horrible news with my fellow proggers so that we are able to discuss together how we should go about dealing with this.
My fear is that this will spur "false fans" or people pretending to know the music of King Crimson which will inevitably diminish their greatness in the eys of those who do no know of them. I truly hope that this single does not become too popular (wishful thinking I know) because I am not quite sure that I could handle modern music fans latching on to King Crimson in any way.
Please feel free to discuss anything that you like pertaining to this issue on the comments section below whether it be feelings about this or solutions to the problem. I hope that perhaps this will unite us prog fans even more in dealing with the aftermath of this horrible tragedy. Some of you may think that I am being melodramati, and I am, but that is only to illustrate to those of us who may be indifferent, how potent this issue is. What's next, Yes samples, Pink Floyd Samples, etc.?
In conclusion, I hope that we can come up with a successful resolution to this problem.
Cheers!
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Replies:
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: October 05 2010 at 15:24
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LOL Are you a relative of NecronCommander? This thread needs to be closed (like the last one). |
Posted By: Any Colour You Like
Date Posted: October 05 2010 at 15:25
| Old news is pre-history old. |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: October 05 2010 at 15:29
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To the OP, just FYI, here is a link to a previous thread that discussed this topic. http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71796&PID=3878653#3878653 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71796&PID=3878653#3878653 It has since been closed by the admins, but it will probably give you an idea of what PA members thought of this new Kanye song. ------------- 
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Posted By: 40footwolf
Date Posted: October 05 2010 at 15:33
------------- Heaven's made a cesspool of us all. |
Posted By: AFBerk010
Date Posted: October 05 2010 at 16:02
| My bad, I am a new member so I haven't seen those other posts, sorry for wasting everyones time. Still disgusting though. |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: October 05 2010 at 16:03
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Not a problem. That is why I attached a link for you, figuring that you wouldn't have seen it. -------------
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Posted By: 40footwolf
Date Posted: October 05 2010 at 16:37
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Oh, wait, you were serious? That's...huh. Wow. ------------- Heaven's made a cesspool of us all. |
Posted By: VanVanVan
Date Posted: October 05 2010 at 16:49
Wouldn't that be a best-case scenario? ------------- "The meaning of life is to give life meaning."-Arjen Lucassen |
AFBerk010 wrote:Posted By: 40footwolf
Date Posted: October 05 2010 at 16:52
I guess he's not too psyched that I listen to King Crimson. ------------- Heaven's made a cesspool of us all. |
Posted By: AFBerk010
Date Posted: October 05 2010 at 17:40
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I would rather good bands like KC not get attention simply because they've been featured in a Kanye song. One of the nice things about being a fan of some bands is that you do not have to deal with people who really don't know what they are talking about with regard to that band. For example, there are quite a number of people who claim to be a "fan" of an artist simply because they know one song from either guitar hero or rock band. From there, the band (in this case KC) would lose credibility with people who are interested in their music.
If you fit the criteria that I just mentioned 40footwolf, then you are completely accurate in saying that I would not be too psyched about you listening to KC. However, if you are familiar with their catalogue and have made an effort to get to know the band and their materail then I would have no problem with you being a fan.
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Posted By: 40footwolf
Date Posted: October 05 2010 at 18:13
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Who cares if they "lose credibility"? Just listen to what you like to listen to and if you're really a fan of the music of the band, and not a fan of the IMAGE of the band, you won't really care what anyone else is saying about them. Here, let's play a quick game: Within the next 10 minutes, name 5 ways Kanye West using a King Crimson sample in a song you don't like has significantly effected you personally? ...Nothing? Okay: 5 ways Kanye West using a King Crimson sample in a song you don't like has significantly effected the music industry. That one should be pretty easy if this is as huge of a problem as you make it out to be, right? ...Okay, uh, how about even this, this should be easiest of all: 5 ways Kanye West using a King Crimson sample in a song you don't like has significantly effected progressive rock as a whole. That one shouldn't be too hard, right? Pick any category, I'm not choosy. ------------- Heaven's made a cesspool of us all. |
Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: October 05 2010 at 18:38
| Who cares if some Pop artist uses a King Crimson sample? It has nothing to do with the band or their fans. |
Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: October 05 2010 at 18:41
| ...And how the hell is this exactly a 'blog'? |
Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: October 05 2010 at 18:48
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This atrocious crime against culture has already been discussed far too often. |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: October 05 2010 at 18:59
This opinion is dumb. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: Conor Fynes
Date Posted: October 05 2010 at 19:01
| I personally think that it would be cool if more people got into prog. More people getting into prog means people would be gravitating towards more intelligent music and therefore, more good music would be made... |
Posted By: tuxon
Date Posted: October 05 2010 at 19:04
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I just heard the song, but it horribly incorporates the sample it. still nice to hear a moment of good stuff in such a horrible song.
------------- I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT |
Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: October 05 2010 at 19:08
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What an awful, awful, awful initial post.
Except he is joking. I know he said he wasn't but he is.
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Posted By: AFBerk010
Date Posted: October 05 2010 at 19:46
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May as well address everyone on this.
First, 40footwolf you can be cever all you want but it doesn't make your point any better and repeating it three times doesn't help either mate.
Second WalterDigsTunes, I agree.
Third, Henry Plainview, opinions people's personal thoughts and views, while you may not agree with it that doesn't make it stupid.
Fourth, Connor Fynes, it would be nice if prog mainstreamed and stayed good but most times when a genre manstreams it turns to uteer crap. I'll give examples if you want,
Finally, thank you textbook for pointing out the obvious joking tone to the piece. The over exaggeration and other such things didn't tip any body off? I don't like the sample but come on this is a little bit over done to be serious.
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Posted By: 40footwolf
Date Posted: October 05 2010 at 20:03
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Oh, so I was right the first time and you're just a troll. That's...better, I guess. ------------- Heaven's made a cesspool of us all. |
Posted By: AFBerk010
Date Posted: October 05 2010 at 20:19
| I wanted to make a point to someone, thanks for being a good sport. |
Posted By: AFBerk010
Date Posted: October 05 2010 at 20:19
| I do love KC though don't get me wrong. |
Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: October 05 2010 at 20:23
Problem is, now we'll never know for certain if you actually were joking, or if you just jumped onto that stance later as a way of saving some face.   Regardless, welcome to PA. Stick around.
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Posted By: AFBerk010
Date Posted: October 05 2010 at 20:35
| A good point indeed, I'll try to prove myself later on. |
Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: October 05 2010 at 21:11
Well, as of right now, I trust ya. 
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Posted By: AFBerk010
Date Posted: October 05 2010 at 21:27
| Good to know |
Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: October 05 2010 at 21:29
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This guy don't sit right with me.....not at all ------------- Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell? I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance. |
Posted By: horsewithteeth11
Date Posted: October 05 2010 at 21:35
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OP, you wrecked your own thread....I think? What is this I don't even....  ------------- 
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Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: October 05 2010 at 21:47
| robert fripp doesn't care about black people |
Posted By: horsewithteeth11
Date Posted: October 05 2010 at 21:55
 /thread -------------
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Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: October 05 2010 at 22:12
------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: 40footwolf
Date Posted: October 05 2010 at 22:56
------------- Heaven's made a cesspool of us all. |
Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: October 06 2010 at 12:09
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: October 06 2010 at 12:29
 You know, I'd like to think that it may attract new fans to KC, fat chance, more likely to attract people to the sunshine band. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: October 06 2010 at 13:16
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nothing can be worse then the horrible version off Confortible Numb made by Scissor Sisters, that made be see red, -------------  
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Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: October 06 2010 at 16:14
| Let's all go listen to the Glee version of You Can't Always Get What You Want. |
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: October 06 2010 at 16:21
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I still don't get Pat's joke
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Posted By: ShipOfFools
Date Posted: October 06 2010 at 16:32
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If Kayne West fans come over here, this forum will become a joke. Although I don't blame Kayne for liking the song. I mean, who wouldn't? ------------- 
"Better than a thousand hollow words is one word that brings peace" - Buddha |
Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: October 06 2010 at 16:38
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SOF: What the hell is that supposed to mean? What are you saying about Kanye West fans?
Guys really need to get over this "hip-hop fans/artists are sub-human" mentality you have. Don't tell me you don't have it, it oozes out of you when you write about it.
For instance, some guy in another thread was shocked that Kanye even knew of King Crimson which just betrays a complete lack of understanding of what being a samples based producer entails. Samples based hip-hop producers necessarily dig in the crates and listen to a bewildering variety of obscure and old music, precisely to hunt down those samples. Anyone who's serious about doing it professionally almost certainly has a more eclectic record collection and probably more knowledge than you.
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Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: October 06 2010 at 21:35
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^To be fair, there is show much shallow rap/hip hop music that it's not even slightly surprising that one would think such things. IE: Almost all the rap I hear on the radio sounds like the exact same thing. And I often have the mentality that my tastes are better than certain people who listen to it because my tastes are tastes that I developed. Whereas many of those people have the tastes that the people picking the radio set list want them to have, any they never hear anything outside of it. And regardless of what people say, I will not ever be able to see the logic in implying that playing beats and lining them up with pre made samples is nearly as intricate and credit worthy as writing and playing something as well thought out as certain progressive rock albums. Find me a rap album that has as much involvement and musical worthiness as something like Thick as a Brick or Zappa's music. I get angry when people say that rap "isn't music", because it's most certainly music. But I can't see the artistic quality in it to the degree that I can certain amazing albums. And thats not just picking favorites, because there's a lot of classical music I'd rather not listen to, but at least I can heavily respect it for musical quality. Whereas theres a lot of rap (I'm aware that there is some better rap) comes down to a pre made beat continuing through the entire song, and just synth pads really adding no harmonic quality to anything, with nonsense lyrics on top of them (that literally make sense in NO way).
------------- Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell? I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance. |
Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: October 06 2010 at 21:51
     ...just to name a few. Now, you can argue the 'musical worthiness' of these works, since such things are a matter of opinion, but saying that they are not involved would be quite the insult to these artists, and the music critics who have acclaimed the works.
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Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: October 06 2010 at 22:01
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I've heard Public Enemy...its not bad. But still, saying that it's as involved as say Baroque music, Prog rock, or something like 20th century music makes it pretty obvious that people haven't ever played an instrument. It's like a lot of electronic music....you like what you like, but it's obviously not as involved. Rap fails to focus on melody and chords as much as it could. As has already been said, there's certainly a lot of rap that is much better than the garbage everyone hears (that can be said of any genre). But it amazes me that some people can't see WHY people don't have as much respect for it as an artistic output as they do for things like prog rock master pieces, classical music (as in the umbrella term for classical period, baroque, and 20th century music), or jazz. It's simply not very complex. I understand that music is about feel, not complexity. But theres just too much damn rap that sounds exactly like other rap. The fact that the lyrics worry way to much about being badass and not being about anything also gets to me, though thats not the case in better rap groups/artists.
I also understand that a lot of people discredit it TOO much, which is why arguments like these come up. I mean, I don't like a lot of rap, but I don't like a lot of rock or a lot of any genre. ------------- Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell? I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance. |
Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: October 06 2010 at 22:10
First of all, Prog Rock isn't as 'involved' as Baroque music, either. So grouping all those other genres together and pitting them against Rap isn't fair, I don't think. Hip-Hop is different from Rock music, the same way Rock is different than Orchestral music. Since these particular genres feature entirely different approaches to making music (the types of instruments used, the primary focus being either melody, complexity, etc.), I don't even think we should be looking at them all in the same light. Just because Hip-Hop music may not sound involved to you doesn't mean it isn't involved. It's just that the artists themselves are focusing more on the production side of things than anything else. And while I will grant you the point that most radio-aired Rap is junk, the fact of the matter is that radio-aired Rock music is typically a poor representation of the genre as a whole, also. Being a Rock fan, I think you will realize that. Beyond that, all i can really say is this: All Rap typically sounds the same to you because you don't listen to it enough. Just like extreme Metal music all sounds alike to an outsider of that particular style, or just like Jazz all sounded like noise to those unfamiliar with it during its uprising. If you aren't terribly familiar with something, especially when it comes to something as subjective as art, you're not going to understand it.
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Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: October 06 2010 at 22:10
Brilliant album. |
Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: October 06 2010 at 22:13
| P.S. And as for the comment about the lyrics, that is once again a generalization. None of the albums I've listed there have showy lyrics. The artists on those releases speak about real, inspired topics, and the first album I listed is almost entirely instrumental. Again, it's judging a book by its cover. I'm guilty of doing the same thing, and I know you're more or less playing devil's advocate here, but I just felt the other point of view needed to be addressed. |
Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: October 06 2010 at 22:14
Agreed. In fact, I think I'm going to give it a listen right now.
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Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: October 06 2010 at 22:18
I was just thinking the same thing. |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: October 06 2010 at 22:19
I am generally not a fan of Rap/Hip-Hop (please don't hate me, JLocke!) but after reading that album's wikiedia page, it sounds pretty cool. Maybe I will check it out. ------------- 
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Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: October 06 2010 at 22:20
You're new here so you don't know....but you better get used to that ^ |
Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: October 06 2010 at 22:23
Well, I will say that anybody who thinks sample-based music composition is somehow lacking in artistic integrity or complexity, that album will most likely change that person's mind.
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Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: October 06 2010 at 22:27
I don't think that. I was working in a record store when the last Girltalk album came out and heard it a lot. I thought it was quite entertaining. -------------
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Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: October 06 2010 at 22:28
Well, in truth, I wasn't really referring to you in that statement. I was referring more so to himtroy.
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Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: October 06 2010 at 22:58
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Actually a lot of people forget that Public Enemy often played and mixed their tracks live, rather than splicing/dubbing/layering it together, the easier and thus more popular method.. It's why they sound so raw and devestating compared to a lot of other production of the day.
Anyway, check it out. Devestating lyric (listen all the way through) and imo at least, a fantastic beat.
Also it's not really hip-hop but in terms of brilliant music through sampling, we're all forgetting this:
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Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: October 07 2010 at 01:17
I still really don't agree that much rap/hip hop has very much musical complexity. As has been said, music is about feel so people like whatever they like and thats fine, but musical involvement wise it's very boring in my mind. I feel like any musician with a half decent ear could listen to something on these albums and be able to play back the melodies. Obviously without the tones and whatnot, but non the less. Whereas if I take something like one of Bach's symphonies it would take an absurd amount of time analyzing it to even begin being able to touch it (and then technical ability would still be a problem). This is me saying how I feel about it, so don't get pissed at me. But I just really don't see how it can be denied that stuff like Bach and Il Ballleto Di Bronzo-Ys (happened to be whats on, you could substitute with any of the overly complex prog works) actually DOES have more musical complexity and intricacy to respect. It doesn't imply that one should like it more than rap if thats what they want to listen to, but it's ridiculous when rap/hip hop fans try to play it down and not understand where certain people are coming from by not having much respect for rap. As I've said, I think it's incredibly ignorant to say rap/hip hop isn't music, but I also completely see where people are coming from by not taking it as seriously as they do classical music/the more involved prog (since thats really the main discussion here, prog fans and rap fans disagreeing). Edit: And I definitely agree that the rock that gets publicized is equally as bad as the rap that does. In fact the radio/popular music scene in general is pretty much just painful.
------------- Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell? I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance. |
Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: October 07 2010 at 02:03
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Well, I've debated with you over Pink Floyd and now over Hip-Hop, and all I can really say is that you seem to have a very simple-minded, limited view of music and art. You are obviously making broad definitions about complex subjects, and seem to ignore any alternate schools of thought that may be presented to you. Just like in this case, I never said Classical music wasn't more complex than Hip-Hop. What I said was that it was wrong to compare the two, since they aren't attempting to reach the same goals or focus on the same musical aspects. They are so different, it simply isn't fair to compare two separate things that have nothing in common. Apparently you either misunderstood that, or intentionally dodged addressing it. If this is how you really want to look at music, then nobody else can change that. But if you choose to continue being this narrow-minded, you need to prepare yourself for the plethora of criticisms that will ultimately come your way. On top of all of this, and something I think you have actually admitted to in a way, is that complexity does not equal quality. So the whole classical music comparison once again becomes pointless the moment you include that perspective in the debate. I'm not pissed at you; I just feel a little sorry for you, because you are choosing to shut out anything you think isn't 'worthy' of experiencing. Maybe you'll grow out of that. I hope you will. In the meantime, don't be surprised if we are to butt heads again in the future. All I ask is that you don't take it personally. Before I drop it entirely, though, consider this: the point you made about a capable musician being able to emulate what he hears on a Hip-Hop record is a pretty weak one, in my view. Because if a musician is capable of doing that in the first place, he would also be able to emulate what he heard on a rock record, jazz record, disco record, etc. fairly quickly. He may not be able to recreate all of them equally as well, but that's beside the point; a musician with a trained ear can pick out almost anything if he is educated enough in proper music theory. That says nothing about the quality of the music he may have used to demonstrate that ability. And classical music is more than just a band of musicians with rock instruments. It's often comprised of full orchestras with so many different types of instruments, it's virtually impossible to dissect it all without seeing it on paper. So it's not as much about complexity from a technical standpoint as it is about density and volume. Finally, plenty of musicians that play 'real' music listen to and have been inspired by Rap music. Mike Portnoy, Mike Akerfeldt and Steve Wilson being among them. To paint the musical world with the broad brush that you do is only causing you to miss out on a lot of potentially joyous listening experiences. You seem more concerned with upholding a reputation than with finding good music with which to enhance your life. Of those choices, I will always be more concerned with the latter. Maybe one day you will be, too. Until then, your musical enjoyment will always be, to a certain extent, limited. Because the world isn't black and white, and unless you venture out into unknown territory, you'll never completely understand that, I don't think. Now, I'm not trying to sound like some know-it-all who has all the answers. I don't. But I'll be damned if I'm going to let a few sh*tty Pop artists who think they are rappers taint my opinion of an entire genre of music. And neither should you.
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Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: October 07 2010 at 08:17
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Besides, Bach didn't write any symphonies.
-------------
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: October 07 2010 at 08:26
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I have no problems with music I don't listen to. 'nuff said.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: ShipOfFools
Date Posted: October 07 2010 at 08:36
Just that Kayne West fans probably don't have an extended knowledge of all different genres of music, like prog rock fans do. And admit it, anyone who listens to Kayne West has some sh*tty taste in music. If you want a good rap artist, look up Missy Elliot or Nas. Or Tupac. Don't look to Kayne, because he's nothing but a fad. If Autotune didn't exist, he wouldn't even be able to perform live.
I don't have a 'hip hop fans/artists are sub-human' thing going on. I listen to some artists in that genre, and I like what I hear. But the issue is that Kayne West is NOT a good hip hop artist. Sure, he's popular, but for what? Singing a song about being an a****le? Getting on the cover of Rolling Stone, with a crown of thorns around his head like Jesus Christ? It's not the fact that a rap artist sampled King Crimson. It's that Kayne did. I dislike him immensely, and I don't like the idea of him bringing his fans here. Although I think some prog snobs also have it against some current pop acts. If I admit that I like Christina Aguilera or Katy Perry on this forum (which I am a fan of both of them), I wouldn't be surprised if a bunch of people discounted my opinion. At the end of the day, it's all music to me. I dislike Kayne, but I suppose his fans are entitled to their tastes in music. All I know is I won't be listening to it. -------------
"Better than a thousand hollow words is one word that brings peace" - Buddha |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: October 07 2010 at 09:38
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIUzLpO1kxI - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIUzLpO1kxI
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Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: October 07 2010 at 09:49
Thanks, will check 
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Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: October 07 2010 at 10:11
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I can't find it. Could someone link it not that I really think that I want to hear this mutilation.After hearing it I will have Thraak on standby in order to recover from the ordeal. ------------- |
Posted By: horsewithteeth11
Date Posted: October 07 2010 at 15:07
-------------
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Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: October 07 2010 at 16:30
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Dude likes Katy Perry.
Case closed.
Am I doing the same thing he did in dismissing people for liking Kanye West?
Or is it rather that Katy Perry actually is objectively sh*t? You must decide for yourself.
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Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: October 07 2010 at 16:45
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: October 07 2010 at 16:49
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Katy Perry is quite nice., ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: October 07 2010 at 16:50
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Have you been to Sesame Street? -------------
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: October 07 2010 at 16:51
Who? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: October 07 2010 at 16:53
-------------
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: October 07 2010 at 16:56
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cant watch it. Not allowed. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: October 07 2010 at 17:01
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Oh, OK. Katy Perry filmed a part for Sesame Street, but it was deemed that she was dressed too inappropriately for 3 - 6 year olds so it ended up being cut from the show. The video is on YouTube, so that is what I was linking to, and referring to. -------------
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: October 07 2010 at 17:06
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This song is awesome. I like how the sample is actually off a bit, too. Also, my thread on this subject was first and is probably the least dumb, so not to toot my own horn or anything but I'm f**king awesome. Also, Endtroducing is a good album but I somehow don't think it can hold its own against a truly great non-sample album. I can't get around the fact that he took other people stuff and mashed it together, no matter how cleverly it was done and how cool the end product is. Also, that album isn't even rap and barely feels like hip-hop. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: October 07 2010 at 17:11
Yes I see the link...can't watch for copyright reasons. Will be the same on Youtube I guess. Will check it out tomorrow. Bedtime. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: October 07 2010 at 21:03
Well, I already addressed my point about comparing two completely different musical styles. I don't think it's fair to do so, since a Hip-Hop artist isn't going for the same thing a Rock musician is. And the album is indeed considered Hip-Hop. Experimental, or Instrumental Hip-Hop, perhaps, but still Hip-Hop. The idea was to show himtroy that not all Hip-Hop sounds alike. And you can check out the other records I listed in that post to further see my point. Each of them have their own sound, and talk about different things. Hell, Wyclef Jean even plays live guitar-- pretty damn well, too! |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: October 07 2010 at 22:02
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I am absolutely devastated. Going to throw myself of a bridge now. Shame on all ya'll who are thinking "go ahead".  ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: October 07 2010 at 22:14
Kanye West is a great talent actually....808 & Heartbreaks a solid album and hey if KC gave him permission to use the song..................GET over it
.
Wait till Lady Gaga does Scheherazade. ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: crimhead
Date Posted: October 08 2010 at 00:54
To quote the line from Robocop..... "I'd buy that for a dollar" |
Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: October 08 2010 at 00:58
| John Cale loves rap and hip-hop music btw, listens to it constantly. Seriously. |
Posted By: Pelata
Date Posted: October 08 2010 at 23:41
| I just want to say, and I know it's all taste and opinion and blah blah blah, but I think Kanye West is the single most overrated, overhyped, undertalented, worthless waste of studio time & airplay this side of P. Diddy...I hate that guys music...never have I seen a guy get so rich with so little talent. |
Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: October 09 2010 at 03:27
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I gotta say that Kanye West is over-rated and I don't like him as a rapper or singer. But the guy does have some serious chops as a producer. Love the work he did on this Diluted Peoples track:
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Posted By: 40footwolf
Date Posted: October 09 2010 at 03:42
Is it possible to die from taking yourself too seriously? Because if so somebody needs to look up this dude's address and send an ambulance to his house STAT. ------------- Heaven's made a cesspool of us all. |
Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: October 09 2010 at 03:53
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Posted By: skihero45
Date Posted: October 10 2010 at 21:26
| Yeah, I heard it on SNL and thought to myself "wtf"?! |
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: October 10 2010 at 21:34
------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: October 11 2010 at 03:19
Quality. 
Listen to this anyone who thinks rapping is talking ;)
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Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: October 11 2010 at 06:01
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^ But see, you hardly hear of those guys and their comrades in popular media. So it's no wonder people just assume it all sucks when all they hear is the watered down, fun-size versions of what Hip-Hop used to be. If we are going to name specifically modern acts, here, let me mention Deltron 3030. You want to talk about creative, I'd say that fits the bill. Like a Space-Rock Rap album. Not to mention the lyrics are superb. Brilliant, if you ask me.
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Posted By: JROCHA
Date Posted: October 12 2010 at 21:21
| Im a huge hip hop fan just like you two above me. Most people on this site and in general have no idea their is great hip hop around still. Deltron 3030 and Blackalicious are great examples of amazing hip hop around today. It seems today you have to look to the underground/alternative hip hop scene to find the good stuff today. You still got great acts in spotlight still that keep it real like The Roots,Mos Def,Talib Kweli and etc. Then u got the great underground acts like Murs,Atmosphere,Aesop Rock and etc. These artists are lyricaly the best in the buisness yet they get no recognition from the mainstream. |
Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: October 13 2010 at 05:42
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But this isn't specific to hip-hop. People keep talking like there's some conspiracy to keep "smart" hip-hop out of the spotlight and I really don't know why they do because smart everything is out of the spot light. I mean why we are on this site instead of listening to the rock on the radio? Because it's dumb.
People who really care about music are greatly outnumbered by people who are casual about it and find it illogical/fruitless to invest great quantities of thought into it. This goes for everything and for complex hip-hop too. |
Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: October 13 2010 at 05:43
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And now, a lyrical masterpiece. I'm not that crazy about the beat, but if you focus on and unpack the lyric, this is unbelievable, especially the second verse.
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Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: October 13 2010 at 06:04
I dunno, man. The beats on that are pretty killer, if you ask me (which you didn't
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Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: October 13 2010 at 06:39
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Another lyrical killer, this time a story about Vietnam, but I should say the fun really begins at 1:32. Vinnie Paz has the first verse and he's alright but RA The Rugged Man takes the second verse and it is COMPLETELY BANANAS. His single verse is better than some other rapper's entire careers.
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Posted By: crimhead
Date Posted: October 13 2010 at 14:10
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The true bad news for Crimson fans is that there is no tour or new music in sight for any foreseeable time. |
Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: October 13 2010 at 14:41
Maybe what you need to do is to hang out with some well respected musicians and ask them for their opinion on garabage like this. I was trying to make light of the situation with sarcastic comments but, ever been in a dressing room with jazz musicans when this crap is playing in the venue? They certainly don't have nice words to explain it. A lot of electronic music fans who grew up on the Berlin School of electronic music find this kind of stuff revolting. You don't understand why. Am I right? |
Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: October 13 2010 at 16:17
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I'm making an assumption here, but it would appear that Toddler owns some B52s CDs. I think that just about wraps up his musical opinions.
Toddler: Did you ask these well respected jazz musicians you hang out with what they think about the B52s?
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Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: October 13 2010 at 22:07
But if I were friends with Cindy Wilson, I would invite her onto stage to sing some jazz standards since she is a completely diverse type of singer. I am trying (and I don't know why), to reach you on this one. It's not just me that has harsh feelings towards samples of classic rock, electronic pieces, or jazz tunes within a dance song. Many types of musicians express dislike for the concept and feel that it is just cheap.
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Posted By: 40footwolf
Date Posted: October 13 2010 at 22:41
I actually do understand why, because my father was much the same way, and despite what your tone is suggesting I'm not actually retarded. I simply don't care . A lot of musicians were/are against the natural progression of music. As it was, as it will be. Doesn't make their opinions on the matter valid any more than Gene Simmons' idea to sue literally every single human being who has engaged in file sharing is valid just because he's in a famous band. ------------- Heaven's made a cesspool of us all. |
Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: October 13 2010 at 22:49
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One could argue that bands like Marillion and IQ and so on have built entire careers out of "sampling" bands that went before them, through imitation rather than direct dubbing of tapes. Does that make any difference?
And Wolf's point that many musicians are against the progression of music is a good one. Sinatra hated rock and roll but who gives a sh*t?
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Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: October 13 2010 at 22:49
I'm a pro musician, I've played a lot of jazz gigs as well as a lot of other styles of music. I like really good rap, especially the stuff based on JBs beats (late 80s early 90s). I don't care for generic rap, especially modern generic rap. I uesed to play acid jazz gigs in San Francisco where rappers would sit in with the band, fun stuff. P.S. I like sampling too, especially when it first came out, that really shot a bolt of energy through the whole music world. DJs were putting out better and more exciting music than musicians, how embarrasing and challenging for the musicians. Musician skills have improved considerably since sampling made them re-think a lot of their playing. Drumnbass skills for drummers for example. |
Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: October 14 2010 at 10:50
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I actually do understand why, because my father was much the same way, and despite what your tone is suggesting I'm not actually retarded. I simply don't care . A lot of musicians were/are against the natural progression of music. As it was, as it will be. Doesn't make their opinions on the matter valid any more than Gene Simmons' idea to sue literally every single human being who has engaged in file sharing is valid just because he's in a famous band.
How can you use the name Gene Simmons and the word musician in the same sentence? He couldn't even figure out what to do with Savoy Brown's music. I wonder if he could play a Grand Funk Railroad song?  It's like....Hey Dad! This guy dressed up in pancake makeup and made a fortune. At least people like Rick Derringer who wore a pancake face knew how to change up and play fusion guitar!Musicans couldn't even take hard rock seriously nor did the record companies after the dreadful entry of Kiss. They destroyed it for many. I know you are not going there but, I am because...c'mon, what are we talking about here? Why is the record company's opinion or manipulation of musicians considered valid? What's up with that in today's society? It's hard enough for the youth to understand concepts of true rock history when posters of Clapton the God are hanging in every music store across the nation. It's the main reason why most people have no idea of who Mike Bloomfield is or his legacy. It's not about me! It's about how the history has been changed by money making a-holes. There is no honesty in it and there never will be. Zappa knew. |
Posted By: 40footwolf
Date Posted: October 14 2010 at 13:54
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You seem to be under the impression that I approve of Gene Simmons' sentiments, which I do not, at all. I'm just saying that being [thing] does not necessarily make your opinion on [thing] valid. All these jazz musicians may be buggin' about sampling, but Steve Reich has no problem with it. "This guy says this" isn't a valid argument, is what I'm saying. There's also the matter of a quote you said earlier which was, "I don't want to dance to electronic music, I want to listen to it." ...So don't dance to it! Listen to the stuff you like and let the people who want to dance, dance. You'll be rockin' some Klaus Schulze and the kids in the club will be gettin' down to deadmau5 and everyone can end up happy. ------------- Heaven's made a cesspool of us all. |