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Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 66588
Posted: October 07 2010 at 17:44
According to Iranian President I'mANutJob, the holocaust never happened, and I don't think that he is alone in this view.
My personal opinion is that it was one of the most reprehensible events in our world's history.
My controversial opinion is that I don't necessarily agree with tracking down former German soldiers and trying them for war crimes. Most were soldiers that were following orders, as awful as those orders were. Now, those that gave the orders on the other hand deserve(d) to die 6 million horrible deaths.
Joined: July 02 2009
Location: The Woods
Status: Offline
Points: 1588
Posted: October 07 2010 at 17:45
CCVP wrote:
inb4 anyone defends the whole thing.
And it still plagues German people untill today. As a German you can't be flagwaving like the citizens of USA#1 do because u'll be arrested. There are some other ridiculous laws that are still valid today, but that is thefirst i could remember just now.
Besides, why is everyone always so concerned about Hitler when Stalin killed >4 million people in just one year. Around 3 million of them just in Ukraine. Nobody cares about Ukranians to this day.
It's because the Nazis killed jews, handicapped people, gypsies and slavs systematically and ideologically driven. Stalin was much more pragmatic.
Friendship is like wetting your pants: everyone can see it, but only you can feel its warmth.
Ok but what makes the second one bad? That is a fictional tale? Well, it's a movie, based on historic events but it's not a documentary.
As a film, it's horribly emotionally manipulative. It's too obvious, I knew what was going to happen about half way through.
It's based on historical events... BUT... only on the broadest of principles. I don't enjoy films that blur history into one simple paradigm like it did. Yeah, sure, as entertainment it's ok, but the Holocaust shouldn't be trivialised into something which the average viewer will only associate with a rather simplistic tale of a boy who plays with another boy, then dies. Whether you want to read all kinds of morality into the storyline won't change the fact that it's pure fiction.
Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
Status: Offline
Points: 7971
Posted: October 07 2010 at 17:57
Zebedee wrote:
CCVP wrote:
inb4 anyone defends the whole thing.
And it still plagues German people untill today. As a German you can't be flagwaving like the citizens of USA#1 do because u'll be arrested. There are some other ridiculous laws that are still valid today, but that is thefirst i could remember just now.
Besides, why is everyone always so concerned about Hitler when Stalin killed >4 million people in just one year. Around 3 million of them just in Ukraine. Nobody cares about Ukranians to this day.
It's because the Nazis killed jews, handicapped people, gypsies and slavs systematically and ideologically driven. Stalin was much more pragmatic.
Yes, cutting the food shipment to a whole part of the country (since the Ukraine was part of the USSR) is much more pragmatic than constructing fields to sistematically kill people. OH, WAIT, weren't the Russians who first invented the death camps, still in the early stages of WW I? Oh, silly me, I guess I must have forgotten that.
EDIT: besides, the nazi ideology was never logical. it changed as the reaches of the party widened. Just an example: at first, üntermenchen were German men who refused to work/ got drunk constantly/ white trash, then it became the thing it became by the early stages of the war.
I readtoday that Mengele performed atrocities on twins in particular - over 6000 twins were experimented on and only 100 survived according to "Angel of Death" website. A monster or a victim of nazi law? You be the judge.,
Joined: July 02 2008
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 14258
Posted: October 07 2010 at 18:09
rushfan4 wrote:
According to Iranian President I'mANutJob, the holocaust never happened, and I don't think that he is alone in this view.
My personal opinion is that it was one of the most reprehensible events in our world's history.
My controversial opinion is that I don't necessarily agree with tracking down former German soldiers and trying them for war crimes. Most were soldiers that were following orders, as awful as those orders were. Now, those that gave the orders on the other hand deserve(d) to die 6 million horrible deaths.
and these accounts tell a grim picture in poetry form.....
WE WILL NEVER FORGET - AUSCHWITZ
by Alexander Kimel - Holocaust Survivor
We will never forget the selections at Auschwitz, Where Black Jackals condemned millions to gas, Right - death, left - life, right death... death ...death. The black finger, surrounded with barking dogs, Works like the Angel of Death, creating living hell.
Children are torn apart from the tender embrace Of mothers, clinging to their treasures. Babies wailing from hunger, Parents parting tearfully with their children. Fathers shaken with helpless rage. The condemned form a column of trembling fear.
Soon the mass of fainting humanity Is lead to the clean foyer of death. Disrobe quickly, take a shower and you will be fed. Food! Food! The hungry mass of disoriented humanity Awakens runs and fights to get into the chamber of gas.
The heavy door closes and the cyclone dropped. Soon the parents choke and turn blue, Later the children turn rigid with death The people become a twisted load, Of intertwined limps and heads glued with blood.
When the human pulp is ready for the works, Sondercommando quickly pull, The bodies apart, peel the gold from the mouths. And the remains are taken to the open pit, Where the bones are cleaned with fire, And the fat drained for human soap.
Six days a week the Jackals drink beer, And rejoice doing the Devil's work. Sunday is the day of rest, the day When the Jackals ride to the Church, to praise God And assure the Salvation of their pious souls.
Deutschland, Deutschland Uber Alles! In this Kingdom of Evil, There is no peace for the Righteous. It is the wicked that inherited This tortured World, engulfed In the red, milky, cry-absorbing fog, Guarding the wilted conscience of man.
I C A N N O T F O R G E T
THE ACTION IN THE GHETTO OF ROHATYN, MARCH 1942. by Alexander Kimel- Holocaust Survivor.
Do I want to remember? The peaceful ghetto, before the raid: Children shaking like leaves in the wind. Mothers searching for a piece of bread. Shadows, on swollen legs, moving with fear. No, I don't want to remember, but how can I forget?
Do I want to remember, the creation of hell? The shouts of the Raiders, enjoying the hunt. Cries of the wounded, begging for life. Faces of mothers carved with pain. Hiding Children, dripping with fear. No, I don't want to remember, but how can I forget?
Do I want to remember, my fearful return? Families vanished in the midst of the day. The mass grave steaming with vapor of blood. Mothers searching for children in vain. The pain of the ghetto, cuts like a knife. No, I don't want to remember, but how can I forget?
Do I want to remember, the wailing of the night? The doors kicked ajar, ripped feathers floating the air. The night scented with snow-melting blood. While the compassionate moon, is showing the way. For the faceless shadows, searching for kin. No, I don't want to remember, but I cannot forget.
Do I want to remember this world upside down? Where the departed are blessed with an instant death. While the living condemned to a short wretched life, And a long tortuous journey into unnamed place, Converting Living Souls, into ashes and gas. No. I Have to Remember and Never Let You Forget.
IT HAPPENED!!!!!!!!!
- "the evidence before the court is incontrovertible......"
Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
Status: Offline
Points: 7971
Posted: October 07 2010 at 18:21
In all seriousness, why are we discussing something that happened > 60 years ago if there are still people dying from hunger and from genocide today?
I witness the squalor of mankind everyday on my way to school or whenever I am outside of my home and yet we are here, discussing about Hitler and his holocaust. There are more important matters to discuss now than the holocaust.
According to Iranian President I'mANutJob, the holocaust never happened, and I don't think that he is alone in this view.
My personal opinion is that it was one of the most reprehensible events in our world's history.
My controversial opinion is that I don't necessarily agree with tracking down former German soldiers and trying them for war crimes. Most were soldiers that were following orders, as awful as those orders were. Now, those that gave the orders on the other hand deserve(d) to die 6 million horrible deaths.
Well, he should tell all my family that died there. Insanity, simply insanity and cruel trolling I suppose. Or does he really believe it ?
There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless,"
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
Posted: October 07 2010 at 19:07
CCVP wrote:
In all seriousness, why are we discussing something that happened > 60 years ago if there are still people dying from hunger and from genocide today?
I witness the squalor of mankind everyday on my way to school or whenever I am outside of my home and yet we are here, discussing about Hitler and his holocaust. There are more important matters to discuss now than the holocaust.
Millions die of hunger this day in 2010. Yet we're still discussing what happened in the 30s, early 40s of the past century.
The lesson of history is the most important one for any person to learn. One must know where, why and how they stand where they do today, so that they are still here to see tommorrow.
Never forget. Try and never let it happen again*.
*Which has been an abject failure, but one can hope.
Joined: December 31 2008
Location: Charlottesville
Status: Offline
Points: 485
Posted: October 07 2010 at 19:19
CCVP wrote:
In all seriousness, why are we discussing something that happened > 60 years ago if there are still people dying from hunger and from genocide today?
I witness the squalor of mankind everyday on my way to school or whenever I am outside of my home and yet we are here, discussing about Hitler and his holocaust. There are more important matters to discuss now than the holocaust.
Are you seriously complaining that the holocaust isnt an important enough topic for a thread on an internet forum? I cant be certain of this but I seem to recall seeing much less significant subjects being discussed on the internet
Joined: July 14 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3449
Posted: October 07 2010 at 22:39
This will perhaps be an unpopular post, but what the hell.
Germans were pretty good at genocide. Not just the holocaust, but look at their plans for the Herero in German South-West Africa (It has been determined by experts that roughly 80,000 Herero lived in German South-West Africa at the beginning of Germany’s colonial rule over the area, while after their revolt was defeated, they numbered approximately 15,000. In a period of four years approximately 65,000 Herero people perished.).
I realize 65,000 ain't quite 6 million, but percentage-wise that's a strong showing.
Let's not count out the U.S. as contenders here. I believe we're trying to wipe out the Taliban in Afghanistan. I'd like to see some figures on that. We're only ten years into the Afghanistan thing.
I think we (U.S.) also tried to do a credible job of genocide in Vietnam, but were not up to snuff.
Hell, we (U.S.) tried to do a credible job during the Civil War (Shiloh, 20,000 casualties—soldiers killed, wounded, or missing, in only two days).
Please don't flame me if you don't see the irony in this post. Just sayin'.
It's how us humans roll.
Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.
Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
Status: Offline
Points: 16715
Posted: October 07 2010 at 23:26
toroddfuglesteg wrote:
Holocaust = the biggest ever crime against humanity, as simple as that.
No, not really. It is beyond comprehension, yes, but it's really overrated as the worst thing ever. Stalin murdered far more people, just for less dramatic reasons, 30 million people starved to death in the Great Leap Forward, and double that were killed during World War 2. And yet, certain groups cannot refrain from bringing up the Holocaust at any possible opportunity (i.e. The ADL and the NYC Mosque), just as for a certain period of time Rudy Guiliani included 9/11 in all of his sentences, while nobody seems to really care about all the people who died under Stalin and Mao. Or even Pol Pot, and nobody in America seems to feel all that bad about firebombing Dresden and Tokyo, we just focus endlessly on the atomic bomb. Hell, we couldn't even work up the effort to risk a single American life to stop the Bosnian genocide, because I mean, f**k, they're just Muslims, and they're practically on the other side of the world!
Marty McFly wrote:
Well, he should tell all my family that died there. Insanity, simply insanity and cruel trolling I suppose. Or does he really believe it ?
A lot of people believe that. There's a whole Wiki page for it, and if you want to see real people saying it in front of you, go to Stormfront.
Edited by Henry Plainview - October 07 2010 at 23:30
Joined: April 03 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 18016
Posted: October 07 2010 at 23:35
Henry Plainview wrote:
toroddfuglesteg wrote:
Holocaust = the biggest ever crime against humanity, as simple as that.
No, not really. It is beyond comprehension, yes, but it's really overrated as the worst thing ever. Stalin murdered far more people, just for less dramatic reasons, 30 million people starved to death in the Great Leap Forward, and double that were killed during World War 2. And yet, certain groups cannot refrain from bringing up the Holocaust at any possible opportunity (i.e. The ADL and the NYC Mosque), just as for a certain period of time Rudy Guiliani included 9/11 in all of his sentences, while nobody seems to really care about all the people who died under Stalin and Mao. Or even Pol Pot, and nobody in America seems to feel all that bad about firebombing Dresden and Tokyo, we just focus endlessly on the atomic bomb. Hell, we couldn't even work up the effort to risk a single American life to stop the Bosnian genocide, because I mean, f**k, they're just Muslims, and they're practically on the other side of the world!
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