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TheClosing View Drop Down
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Points: 527 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2010 at 20:41
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Dude, we're not talking about that (at least I'm not). 

I'm talking about the USA in 2010, and our idea of poverty.  Not starving kids in Africa or wherever that is. 

Perhaps that's why we're arguing here.  There is a big difference between what you and I were apparently thinking. 
No. The entire principle of the matter remains the same. 
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Points: 17309 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2010 at 20:42
Originally posted by WalterDigsTunes WalterDigsTunes wrote:

Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Today, we tell the poor they are victims who need "justice."  LOL 


Comments like that justify turning a blind eye to society's structural flaws (let alone addressing them).



Wrong.  Comments like that give people the tools and strength to make it in the world, and they will.  Rather than making them dependents of the state. 

I've seen both ways of addressing poverty.  One works.  One doesn't.

And again, I'm talking US cities here, not the third world. 
...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell"
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Points: 4900 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2010 at 20:43
Originally posted by TheClosing TheClosing wrote:

Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

My grandmother used to ride the ass of my Dad and his brothers about doing the right thing, about respect, and about how their poverty was no excuse for not being exceptional people.  She taught them to quit worrying about themselves and look for ways to help their neighbors, especially the older ones. 

Today, we tell the poor they are victims who need "justice."  LOL   I just don't know how we got from the simple, common sense people we once were to this nation of whiners. 
You want to see what true poverty looks like? 



All your right, and wrongs don't mean a thing to this child. You've had a completely different education on the world than he has. He lives to survive. 


Since when did this turn into a feed the children commercial? I don't recall anybody here even making a mention of the atrocities going on in the less well-off countries. We were discussing whether or not poor people in America are crooks. Are you so unable to stay on point that you have to grasp at straws from entirely different topics to attempt (and fail) to make a point? 



Edited by JLocke - June 27 2010 at 20:43
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Points: 34550 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2010 at 20:43
Worst part is, cant say we havnt heard stuff like this before. 
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Points: 17309 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2010 at 20:44
Originally posted by TheClosing TheClosing wrote:

Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Dude, we're not talking about that (at least I'm not). 

I'm talking about the USA in 2010, and our idea of poverty.  Not starving kids in Africa or wherever that is. 

Perhaps that's why we're arguing here.  There is a big difference between what you and I were apparently thinking. 
No. The entire principle of the matter remains the same. 



Totally wrong.  LOL
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Points: 32553 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2010 at 20:45
Originally posted by TheClosing TheClosing wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

If money and privilege change who you are morally as a person, then you are still evil.
 Sorry to break it to you, but the world isn't as black, and white as they make things out to be in your bible. If you're starving with no means to support yourself then you will steal a loaf of bread to survive if you have to. Life is made up of gray areas. It truly is impossible to judge a man unless you've been in his shoes. 


Yes I would.  And I would still be doing evil.  See?  Not so hard.

Do you really think people murder and rape and drink and drive and vandalize because they will starve if they don't? 

gtfo
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Points: 17309 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2010 at 20:45
I gotta get this damn Wind and Wuthering review finished.  And you guys are time-sucking meLOL

Have a great night guysSmile
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Points: 4900 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2010 at 20:48
Originally posted by TheClosing TheClosing wrote:

Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Dude, we're not talking about that (at least I'm not). 

I'm talking about the USA in 2010, and our idea of poverty.  Not starving kids in Africa or wherever that is. 

Perhaps that's why we're arguing here.  There is a big difference between what you and I were apparently thinking. 
No. The entire principle of the matter remains the same. 

Uh . . . no it doesn't. It's entirely different. You are comparing a third world country with issues you nor I could ever possibly comprehend with the common poor person in America. How could you be so obtuse about such a thing?
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Points: 527 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2010 at 20:56
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

 
Yes I would.  And I would still be doing evil.  See?  Not so hard.

Do you really think people murder and rape and drink and drive and vandalize because they will starve if they don't? 

gtfo

Like I said your perception of evil is as black, and white as the bible. I never said anything about murder or rape. I was strictly speaking of the most common "crime", stealing. 

Since everyone seems to have forgotten what was said:

Originally posted by TheClosing TheClosing wrote:

Edit: tried to get the quote in there right.

Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

  The roots of crime IMO come from poor character, personal weakness, and some cultural elements.   
The Perception of right, and wrong is completely different to a man who's starving compared to one who's well fed. 

The point I was attempting to get across remains the exact same. 
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Points: 65760 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2010 at 21:00
I don't think the perception necessarily changes, I think more of the motivation behind their actions that does.

*scampers back into the dark*


Edited by A Person - June 27 2010 at 21:01
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Points: 4900 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2010 at 21:03
Originally posted by TheClosing TheClosing wrote:

 

Since everyone seems to have forgotten what was said:

Originally posted by TheClosing TheClosing wrote:

Edit: tried to get the quote in there right.

Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

  The roots of crime IMO come from poor character, personal weakness, and some cultural elements.   
The Perception of right, and wrong is completely different to a man who's starving compared to one who's well fed. 

The point I was attempting to get across remains the exact same. 


Again, you're wrong. You said a person's perception of right and wrong is somehow different when they are starving. Even if I would steal out of desperation (which by the way, in this country and time makes absolutely no sense), I would still know what I was doing was wrong. My perception would stay the same, and I would be remorseful, despite my action. 

EDIT: A Person beat me to it. 


Edited by JLocke - June 27 2010 at 21:04
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Points: 6795 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2010 at 21:08
Originally posted by markosherrera markosherrera wrote:

Officers taser 86-year-old disabled woman in her bed


LOL What else is new? This is local news to me.
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Points: 527 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2010 at 21:12
Originally posted by JLocke JLocke wrote:

Again, you're wrong. You said a person's perception of right and wrong is somehow different when they are starving. Even if I would steal out of desperation (which by the way, in this country and time makes absolutely no sense), I would still know what I was doing was wrong. My perception would stay the same, and I would be remorseful, despite my action. 
Man in general can only perceive relatively what's in front of his face. A well fed man doesn't think about what it's like to be starving. A starving man on the other hand only thinks about his next meal. I know there are some Bible thumpers around these parts, but fact of the matter is we're animals. Take a buzzard for example, it'll wait for the loin to do the hard work for him, and then "steal" whatever's left. Are you saying that what this animal has done is morally wrong? No, you would not. 

And there most certainly are people in this country who steal out of desperation. More than you know it seems. 
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Points: 15784 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2010 at 21:14
To think this thread was once about cops tasering a granny.
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Points: 32553 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2010 at 21:21
Originally posted by TheClosing TheClosing wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

 
Yes I would.  And I would still be doing evil.  See?  Not so hard.

Do you really think people murder and rape and drink and drive and vandalize because they will starve if they don't? 

gtfo

Like I said your perception of evil is as black, and white as the bible. I never said anything about murder or rape. I was strictly speaking of the most common "crime", stealing. 

Since everyone seems to have forgotten what was said:


I'm so glad you know both what my perception of good and evil are and what the biblical perception of good and evil are.  I'm actually flattered you find them to be the same.  I believe the Bible is God's Word, by the way.

That said, stealing isn't the most common crime.  I think that is speeding.

Also, people don't steal because they are starving. TVs, guns, perfume and cosmetics, cell phones and iPods are not edible. 

If you argue these items are sold to buy food, that is foolishness.  Otherwise, why not f**king steal food?  Grocery stores are easier to steal from than hi-tech stores and pawn shops.
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Points: 4900 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2010 at 21:25
Originally posted by TheClosing TheClosing wrote:

Originally posted by JLocke JLocke wrote:

Again, you're wrong. You said a person's perception of right and wrong is somehow different when they are starving. Even if I would steal out of desperation (which by the way, in this country and time makes absolutely no sense), I would still know what I was doing was wrong. My perception would stay the same, and I would be remorseful, despite my action. 
Man in general can only perceive relatively what's in front of his face. A well fed man doesn't think about what it's like to be starving. A starving man on the other hand only thinks about his next meal. I know there are some Bible thumpers around these parts, but fact of the matter is we're animals. Take a buzzard for example, it'll wait for the loin to do the hard work for him, and then "steal" whatever's left. Are you saying that what this animal has done is morally wrong? No, you would not. 

And there most certainly are people in this country who steal out of desperation. More than you know it seems. 

LOL 'Man can only perceive what is in front of his face'. Wow, bro. That's deep. Touched me, truly. 

Now it's time to grow up. Here's the reality: people are intelligent. People are smarter than their fellow animals. People can tell the difference between right and wrong, and will often go against natural instinct because we have the ability to do so. By saying we are somehow incapable of morality without certain circumstances is basically saying that we are all stupid and can't take control of our own lives. It doesn't work that way. Just because we are animals biologically does not mean we have to behave like animals. We ARE better than that, and we ARE inherently good, in my view.

And yes, people do steal out of desperation, but it doesn't mean they are unaware of how wrong it is. And no matter how many folks do it, I guarantee you twice as many desperate people still do the honest thing over committing a crime. That's where we differ most, I expect. You don't trust your fellow human being; I do. I believe most of us will make the right choice, even in the darkest of circumstances. Perhaps not in a third world country where bloodshed and violence is an everyday occurance, but here in the civilized world, there are plenty of alternatives to crime, even for these animalistic, mindless poor people you speak so lowly of. 
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Points: 6795 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2010 at 21:57
Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

Worst part is, cant say we havnt heard stuff like this before. 
Yeah, about....every day?
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Points: 527 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2010 at 22:34
Originally posted by JLocke JLocke wrote:

[QUOTE=TheClosing] 

LOL 'Man can only perceive what is in front of his face'. Wow, bro. That's deep. Touched me, truly. 

Now it's time to grow up. Here's the reality: people are intelligent. People are smarter than their fellow animals. People can tell the difference between right and wrong, and will often go against natural instinct because we have the ability to do so. By saying we are somehow incapable of morality without certain circumstances is basically saying that we are all stupid and can't take control of our own lives. It doesn't work that way. Just because we are animals biologically does not mean we have to behave like animals. We ARE better than that, and we ARE inherently good, in my view.

And yes, people do steal out of desperation, but it doesn't mean they are unaware of how wrong it is. And no matter how many folks do it, I guarantee you twice as many desperate people still do the honest thing over committing a crime. That's where we differ most, I expect. You don't trust your fellow human being; I do. I believe most of us will make the right choice, even in the darkest of circumstances. Perhaps not in a third world country where bloodshed and violence is an everyday occurance, but here in the civilized world, there are plenty of alternatives to crime, even for these animalistic, mindless poor people you speak so lowly of. 

http://www.thebodysoulconnection.com/EducationCenter/fight.html

"When our fight or flight system is activated, we tend to perceive everything in our environment as a possible threat to our survival. By its very nature, the fight or flight system bypasses our rational mind—where our more well thought out beliefs exist—and moves us into "attack" mode. This state of alert causes us to perceive almost everything in our world as a possible threat to our survival. "

I'd urge you to do a little more research into the the body, and mind before you talk in a condescending manner.  
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Points: 4900 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2010 at 22:46
Originally posted by TheClosing TheClosing wrote:

Originally posted by JLocke JLocke wrote:

[QUOTE=TheClosing] 

LOL 'Man can only perceive what is in front of his face'. Wow, bro. That's deep. Touched me, truly. 

Now it's time to grow up. Here's the reality: people are intelligent. People are smarter than their fellow animals. People can tell the difference between right and wrong, and will often go against natural instinct because we have the ability to do so. By saying we are somehow incapable of morality without certain circumstances is basically saying that we are all stupid and can't take control of our own lives. It doesn't work that way. Just because we are animals biologically does not mean we have to behave like animals. We ARE better than that, and we ARE inherently good, in my view.

And yes, people do steal out of desperation, but it doesn't mean they are unaware of how wrong it is. And no matter how many folks do it, I guarantee you twice as many desperate people still do the honest thing over committing a crime. That's where we differ most, I expect. You don't trust your fellow human being; I do. I believe most of us will make the right choice, even in the darkest of circumstances. Perhaps not in a third world country where bloodshed and violence is an everyday occurance, but here in the civilized world, there are plenty of alternatives to crime, even for these animalistic, mindless poor people you speak so lowly of. 

http://www.thebodysoulconnection.com/EducationCenter/fight.html

"When our fight or flight system is activated, we tend to perceive everything in our environment as a possible threat to our survival. By its very nature, the fight or flight system bypasses our rational mind—where our more well thought out beliefs exist—and moves us into "attack" mode. This state of alert causes us to perceive almost everything in our world as a possible threat to our survival. "

I'd urge you to do a little more research into the the body, and mind before you talk in a condescending manner.  


Okay, you need to learn how to quote people properly, and you also need to learn proper grammar. I'm sick of seeing you stick commas where they don't belong. 


Aside from my pet peeves, I checked your little website. It talks about body and soul connection, and finding 'spiritual well-being'. Since there is no such thing as a soul or spirits, I don't think I'm gonna take that site very seriously at all. Besides that, 'fight-or-flight' response in human beings amounts to something very common: stress. It doesn't take us over like some hypnotic trance. 

Everything I said still stands. We are capable of reasoning beyond whatever animal instincts may be in us. I don't need to research jack sh*t to know that I can choose between stealing or going to a soup kitchen. 
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Points: 5148 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2010 at 22:50
Originally posted by CinemaZebra CinemaZebra wrote:

Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

Worst part is, cant say we havnt heard stuff like this before. 
Yeah, about....every day?
Yet you forget to mention all the good things the police do every minute.Ermm
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