| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
Equality 7-2521 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
|
 Posted: June 27 2010 at 15:40 |
 TheClosing wrote:
Equality: I'm met my fair share of cops, and drug addicts. In my experience those who are trying to escape reality are much more dangerous than those who man up, and face it. I've not seen a single good thing come out of drug abuse. It ruins everyones lives around that person.
Jlocke: Drug stores already sell drugs that are basically like Meth. Take Wellbutrin for example. If you were to legalize drugs they'd be a hundred times more accessible than they already are now. You don't fight a fire by throwing more kerosene on it. |
Nothing good comes of it? I think people enjoy the experience it offers. By that same logic nothing good comes of high sodium diets, sedentary lifestyles, or majoring in Communications, should we criminalize these things?
|
|
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
|
 |
JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
|
Posted: June 27 2010 at 15:44 |
TheClosing wrote:
Jlocke: Drug stores already sell drugs that are basically like Meth. Take Wellbutrin for example. If you were to legalize drugs they'd be a hundred times more accessible than they already are now. You don't fight a fire by throwing more kerosene on it.
|
Drug stores also regulate which people can buy it, and how much at a time. The same would be true with any of the currently illegal drugs. You're looking at this from a very lazy and basic viewpoint. You're overlooking the fine details that make the argument for drug legalization much more reasonable than some think.
And no, they would NOT be 'a hundred times more accessible', because like I just said, there would be high regulations and qualifications in order to purchase such a thing! Do you honestly think stores would just let anybody off the street waltz right in and grab a month's worth if meth? Making something legal makes it safer, easier to manage, and easier to keep track of who in fact is a drug user. Drugs are more accessable right now because dealers on the street aren't checking peoples' I.D.s. They don't care who they sell to. A legal retailer would.
Edited by JLocke - June 27 2010 at 15:47
|
|
TheClosing
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 11 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 527
|
Posted: June 27 2010 at 15:45 |
|
I have yet to hear about someone with such high blood pressure due to sodium intake that they went, and robbed a liquor store so they could support their fix.
|
|
Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
|
Posted: June 27 2010 at 15:48 |
TheClosing wrote:
I have yet to hear about someone with such high blood pressure due to sodium intake that they went, and robbed a liquor store so they could support their fix. |
Maybe because they can legally purchase it at a fair market price?
Also, that's the consideration now? I thought the problem was that the consumption of a good will ruin someone's life?
|
|
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
|
|
UndercoverBoy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 10 2009
Location: Tulsa, OK, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 5148
|
Posted: June 27 2010 at 15:48 |
markosherrera wrote:
UndercoverBoy wrote:
In my old neighborhood, there were 26 bustings of meth labs. I have never heard any stories in my city about corrupt cops like these. Recently, our mayor decided to lay off thirty cops, and my friends and family went to her house to protest. Unsurprisingly, the meth usage in Tulsa has gone up considerably since they were laid off. Why don't these cops get more attention yet the few bad ones get all the coverage? Money, that's what.
I can't speak for markosherrera, but based on this previous thread, I seriously doubt he cares as much for the victim as he cares for stirring up fear and hatred for the police force.
|
What happens is that there are many mentally ill police
there should be more stringent tests, not to attack the poor people engaged in helping the people harmless and harder to combat real crime instead of abusing people
|
Agreed with the fact that the police force should be more selective when hiring officers to prevent the occasional crimes such as this. I just wanted to know your intent, as I had a feeling that you had beef with the police force as a whole.
|
|
TheClosing
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 11 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 527
|
Posted: June 27 2010 at 15:49 |
JLocke wrote:
Drug stores also regulate which people can buy it, and how much at a time. The same would be true with any of the currently illegal drugs. You're looking at this from a very lazy and basic viewpoint. You're overlooking the fine details that make the argument for drug legalization much more reasonable than some think. |
You don't seem to realize the massive liability issues as it is. They can't possibly legalize these types of substances. Put that notion out of your head completely. Seriously.
|
|
Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
|
Posted: June 27 2010 at 15:51 |
TheClosing wrote:
JLocke wrote:
Drug stores also regulate which people can buy it, and how much at a time. The same would be true with any of the currently illegal drugs. You're looking at this from a very lazy and basic viewpoint. You're overlooking the fine details that make the argument for drug legalization much more reasonable than some think. |
You don't seem to realize the massive liability issues as it is. They can't possibly legalize these types of substances. Put that notion out of your head completely. Seriously. |
You do realize narcotics weren't made a federal crime until 1914 right?
|
|
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
|
|
UndercoverBoy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 10 2009
Location: Tulsa, OK, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 5148
|
Posted: June 27 2010 at 15:51 |
JLocke wrote:
TheClosing wrote:
Jlocke: Drug stores already sell drugs that are basically like Meth. Take Wellbutrin for example. If you were to legalize drugs they'd be a hundred times more accessible than they already are now. You don't fight a fire by throwing more kerosene on it. |
Drug stores also regulate which people can buy it, and how much at a time. The same would be true with any of the currently illegal drugs. You're looking at this from a very lazy and basic viewpoint. You're overlooking the fine details that make the argument for drug legalization much more reasonable than some think.
And no, they would NOT be 'a hundred times more accessible', because like I just said, there would be high regulations and qualifications in order to purchase such a thing! Do you honestly think stores would just let anybody off the street waltz right in and grab a month's worth if meth? Making something legal makes it safer, easier to manage, and easier to keep track of who in fact is a drug user. Drugs are more accessable right now because dealers on the street aren't checking peoples' I.D.s. They don't care who they sell to. A legal retailer would.
|
Your propostion is actually pretty reasonable, as long as we carefully regulate who gets these drugs. Still, I can't think of a situation when drugs such as meth and heroin could ever be sold. Are there any positive benefits to these substances?
Now, why can't this selective ID-checking system be used when selling guns? (Okay, just dodge that question.  )
Edited by UndercoverBoy - June 27 2010 at 15:53
|
|
JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
|
Posted: June 27 2010 at 15:52 |
TheClosing wrote:
I have yet to hear about someone with such high blood pressure due to sodium intake that they went, and robbed a liquor store so they could support their fix. |
Again, you're completely ignoring the fact that these crimes take place already, regardless of the laws in place. If drugs were legally sold and taxed, it would be much easier to keep track of people who in fact take drugs. And I don't think it's that far of a stretch to assume that would also make it easier to prevent people from abusing their intake and/or causing harm to others in public. Do you not see how Alcohol being legal has saved lives? If a bartender sees someone abusing their intake, they cut them off and call a cab. If someone is drinking and driving and law enforcement is near, they act accordingly.
When something is illegal, it's harder to anticipate and keep track of. So instead of people treating a drug abuser just as fairly as an alcoholic, they end up busting into people's houses in the middle of the night with guns all because a neighbor reported smelling pot once or twice in that house. Do you honestly think that's how it should be handled?
|
|
TheClosing
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 11 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 527
|
Posted: June 27 2010 at 15:52 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Also, that's the consideration now? I thought the problem was that the consumption of a good will ruin someone's life? |
Point is people do extremely irrational things on drugs. Alcohol is bad enough as it is. unfortunately I know all this from first hand experiences.
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
You do realize narcotics weren't made a federal crime until 1914 right? |
 You seriously think present society or the drugs are even remotely comparable to 1914? Wow, you are high.
Edited by TheClosing - June 27 2010 at 15:57
|
|
JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
|
Posted: June 27 2010 at 15:58 |
UndercoverBoy wrote:
JLocke wrote:
TheClosing wrote:
Jlocke: Drug stores already sell drugs that are basically like Meth. Take Wellbutrin for example. If you were to legalize drugs they'd be a hundred times more accessible than they already are now. You don't fight a fire by throwing more kerosene on it. |
Drug stores also regulate which people can buy it, and how much at a time. The same would be true with any of the currently illegal drugs. You're looking at this from a very lazy and basic viewpoint. You're overlooking the fine details that make the argument for drug legalization much more reasonable than some think.
And no, they would NOT be 'a hundred times more accessible', because like I just said, there would be high regulations and qualifications in order to purchase such a thing! Do you honestly think stores would just let anybody off the street waltz right in and grab a month's worth if meth? Making something legal makes it safer, easier to manage, and easier to keep track of who in fact is a drug user. Drugs are more accessable right now because dealers on the street aren't checking peoples' I.D.s. They don't care who they sell to. A legal retailer would.
|
Your propostion is actually pretty reasonable, as long as we carefully regulate who gets these drugs. Still, I can't think of a situation when drugs such as meth and heroin could ever be sold. Are there any positive benefits to these substances?
|
Some would argue that hallucinogens and acids help people think with new parts of their brain, but even if that isn't the case, I don't see where Alcohol has any super-positive benefits for people either, except that it makes them feel good. And as long as people don't harm others, they are allowed to enjoy it. Sure, drinking and smoking can lead to diseases later in life, but they are legal. Drugs are the same thing, in my eyes.
If being healthy and hygienically beneficial were the conditions for something to be legal or not, we'd have absolutely nothing available to us other than the essentials for living.
Edited by JLocke - June 27 2010 at 16:01
|
|
Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
|
Posted: June 27 2010 at 15:58 |
TheClosing wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
You do realize narcotics weren't made a federal crime until 1914 right? |
 You seriously think present society or the drugs are even remotely comparable to 1914? Wow, you are high. |
People do incredibly irrational things because of love. I suppose that should be criminalized?
The drugs are very comparable, as many are exactly the same.
Regardless though you say such things can never be legalized as if they never were. That's just plain stupid.
|
|
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
|
|
UndercoverBoy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 10 2009
Location: Tulsa, OK, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 5148
|
Posted: June 27 2010 at 15:59 |
JLocke wrote:
UndercoverBoy wrote:
JLocke wrote:
TheClosing wrote:
Jlocke: Drug stores already sell drugs that are basically like Meth. Take Wellbutrin for example. If you were to legalize drugs they'd be a hundred times more accessible than they already are now. You don't fight a fire by throwing more kerosene on it. |
Drug stores also regulate which people can buy it, and how much at a time. The same would be true with any of the currently illegal drugs. You're looking at this from a very lazy and basic viewpoint. You're overlooking the fine details that make the argument for drug legalization much more reasonable than some think.
And no, they would NOT be 'a hundred times more accessible', because like I just said, there would be high regulations and qualifications in order to purchase such a thing! Do you honestly think stores would just let anybody off the street waltz right in and grab a month's worth if meth? Making something legal makes it safer, easier to manage, and easier to keep track of who in fact is a drug user. Drugs are more accessable right now because dealers on the street aren't checking peoples' I.D.s. They don't care who they sell to. A legal retailer would.
|
Your propostion is actually pretty reasonable, as long as we carefully regulate who gets these drugs. Still, I can't think of a situation when drugs such as meth and heroin could ever be sold. Are there any positive benefits to these substances?
|
Some would argue that hallucinogens and acids help people think with new parts of their brain, but even if that isn't the case, I don't see where Alcohol has any super-positive benefits for people either, except that it makes them feel good. And as long as people don't harm others, they are allowed to enjoy it. Sure, drinking and smoking can lead to diseases later in life, but they are legal. Drugs are the same thing, in my eyes.
|
I don't know if you've ever seen anyone high on meth, but there is a large difference between being high on that and being drunk or high on marijuana.
|
|
JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
|
Posted: June 27 2010 at 16:04 |
UndercoverBoy wrote:
JLocke wrote:
UndercoverBoy wrote:
JLocke wrote:
TheClosing wrote:
Jlocke: Drug stores already sell drugs that are basically like Meth. Take Wellbutrin for example. If you were to legalize drugs they'd be a hundred times more accessible than they already are now. You don't fight a fire by throwing more kerosene on it. |
Drug stores also regulate which people can buy it, and how much at a time. The same would be true with any of the currently illegal drugs. You're looking at this from a very lazy and basic viewpoint. You're overlooking the fine details that make the argument for drug legalization much more reasonable than some think.
And no, they would NOT be 'a hundred times more accessible', because like I just said, there would be high regulations and qualifications in order to purchase such a thing! Do you honestly think stores would just let anybody off the street waltz right in and grab a month's worth if meth? Making something legal makes it safer, easier to manage, and easier to keep track of who in fact is a drug user. Drugs are more accessable right now because dealers on the street aren't checking peoples' I.D.s. They don't care who they sell to. A legal retailer would.
|
Your propostion is actually pretty reasonable, as long as we carefully regulate who gets these drugs. Still, I can't think of a situation when drugs such as meth and heroin could ever be sold. Are there any positive benefits to these substances?
|
Some would argue that hallucinogens and acids help people think with new parts of their brain, but even if that isn't the case, I don't see where Alcohol has any super-positive benefits for people either, except that it makes them feel good. And as long as people don't harm others, they are allowed to enjoy it. Sure, drinking and smoking can lead to diseases later in life, but they are legal. Drugs are the same thing, in my eyes.
|
I don't know if you've ever seen anyone high on meth, but there is a large difference between being high on that and being drunk or high on marijuana. |
It doesn't matter. Legally, it's all or nothing. Every substance has a different effect based on what it is comprised of and the person using it, but ALL drugs are potentially dangerous, and should all be regulated to some degree if made legal. As it stands now, however, NO heavy drugs are being regulated, because legitimate businessmen aren't the ones providing them to people. I don't see how trying it my way could make the situation any more dangerous than it already is.
|
|
TheClosing
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 11 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 527
|
Posted: June 27 2010 at 16:09 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
TheClosing wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
You do realize narcotics weren't made a federal crime until 1914 right? |
You seriously think present society or the drugs are even remotely comparable to 1914? Wow, you are high. |
People do incredibly irrational things because of love. I suppose that should be criminalized?
The drugs are very comparable, as many are exactly the same.
Regardless though you say such things can never be legalized as if they never were. That's just plain stupid. |
Not in the society we've built. You want to live free of laws then again, go build or buy a raft, and find yourself an Island. I'm sure you'll soon start to appreciate the laws you once so naively despised.
Edited by TheClosing - July 01 2010 at 22:07
|
|
Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
|
Posted: June 27 2010 at 16:12 |
TheClosing wrote:
UndercoverBoy wrote:
|
I don't know if you've ever seen anyone high on meth, but there is a large difference between being high on that and being drunk or high on marijuana. |
I was with a childhood friend who was a meth addict that thought it would be cool to start shooting the windows out of cars with a bb gun, and steel petty items. Now this kid lived in an upper middle class neighborhood, and didn't need any of the junk. So why did he did this you ask? Because at the time he thought it was a good idea. Long story short the cops came, and I was guilty by association. I know have a record. See by simply associating myself with him it ruined lots of things I had planned for my life. Learned my lesson real quick though. I don't associate myself with druggies anymore.
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
TheClosing wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
You do realize narcotics weren't made a federal crime until 1914 right? |
You seriously think present society or the drugs are even remotely comparable to 1914? Wow, you are high. |
People do incredibly irrational things because of love. I suppose that should be criminalized?
The drugs are very comparable, as many are exactly the same.
Regardless though you say such things can never be legalized as if they never were. That's just plain stupid. |
Not in the society we've built. You want to live free of laws then again, go build or buy a raft, and find yourself an Island. I'm sure you'll soon start to appreciate the laws you once so naively despised. [/QUOTE]
Perhaps thats how we should have handled those damn slaves when they wanted more freedom? You know that murder rates from black people have shot up since slavery ended? Should we bring it back?
Your argument makes no sense. If I don't like the government I should just leave? That's so antithetical to any morality I know of or even a cursory examination of our political tradition in this country.
|
|
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
|
|
TheClosing
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 11 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 527
|
Posted: June 27 2010 at 16:16 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Perhaps thats how we should have handled those damn slaves when they wanted more freedom? You know that murder rates from black people have shot up since slavery ended? Should we bring it back?
Your argument makes no sense. If I don't like the government I should just leave? That's so antithetical to any morality I know of or even a cursory examination of our political tradition in this country. |
That has to do with poverty, and the educational system. Legalizing drugs won't solve the issue, and in return will have much bigger issues than we do already.
|
|
Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
|
Posted: June 27 2010 at 16:18 |
TheClosing wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Perhaps thats how we should have handled those damn slaves when they wanted more freedom? You know that murder rates from black people have shot up since slavery ended? Should we bring it back?
Your argument makes no sense. If I don't like the government I should just leave? That's so antithetical to any morality I know of or even a cursory examination of our political tradition in this country. |
That has to do with poverty, and the educational system. Legalizing drugs won't solve the issue, and in return will have much bigger issues than we do already. |
What? How does that relate to anything I said?
|
|
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
|
|
UndercoverBoy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 10 2009
Location: Tulsa, OK, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 5148
|
Posted: June 27 2010 at 16:19 |
TheClosing wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Perhaps thats how we should have handled those damn slaves when they wanted more freedom? You know that murder rates from black people have shot up since slavery ended? Should we bring it back?
Your argument makes no sense. If I don't like the government I should just leave? That's so antithetical to any morality I know of or even a cursory examination of our political tradition in this country. |
That has to do with poverty, and the educational system. Legalizing drugs won't solve the issue, and in return will have much bigger issues than we do already. |
Finally someone realizes that the root of most crime is poverty and poor education. Not to get into another argument, though.
|
|
Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
|
Posted: June 27 2010 at 16:22 |
|
I'm off to finish some HW before I frustrate myself further with this debate.
|
|
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
|
|
/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
Officers taser 86 old disabled woman in bed
