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desistindo 
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: June 02 2010 Status: Offline Points: 4321 |
 Posted: June 04 2010 at 08:50 |
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This Cardiac sound its very interesting in deed... Can be "Swans" be consider a prog/punk band?
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CPicard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 03 2008 Location: Là, sui monti. Status: Offline Points: 10841 |
Posted: June 04 2010 at 14:44 |
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Avant-garde punk, maybe - progressive punk, I doubt it.
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Marty McFly
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 23 2009 Location: Czech Republic Status: Offline Points: 3968 |
Posted: June 04 2010 at 16:34 |
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Jean-Luc Picard, try to search youtube for some UZ JSME DOMA songs, tell me what do you think about them :-) And by the way, you're probably right, there can't be progression of Punk, this genre is opposite of Prog by nature. However, we can appreciate Avant-Garde Punk groups as they are much more closer to how we understand Prog. |
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There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless,"
-Andyman1125 on Lulu  Even my |
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Dorsalia
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 21 2006 Location: Cape Mola Status: Offline Points: 367 |
Posted: June 04 2010 at 18:17 |
Poor people, blinded by genre.
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"Es ist übrigens unmöglich, eine Meinung zu haben, ohne dass es unerfreuliche Überschneidungen gibt. Die Grünen sind für den deutschen Wald, die NPD ebenfalls."
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Anthony H.
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: April 11 2010 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 6088 |
Posted: June 04 2010 at 21:38 |
Because Primus are badass? |
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Petrovsk Mizinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 24 2007 Location: Ukraine Status: Offline Points: 25210 |
Posted: June 04 2010 at 21:56 |
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At the Drive In did this with their last album, Relationship of Command. Very clear and defined prog rock influences in the sound.
Perhaps a step further of this was the band Refused, with their album The Shape of Punk to Come. Fundamentally a hardcore band, but musically it was a mile away from straight out hardcore. Challenging arrangements and musicianship and extreme levels of creativity going on. |
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TheLastBaron
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 07 2009 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 206 |
Posted: June 04 2010 at 22:13 |
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Definitely Coheed and Cambria ( with tinges of metal and emo, could call it pronkemeto) and The Mars Volta's first album.
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" Men are not prisoners of fate, but prisoners of their own minds." - FDR
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boo boo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 28 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 905 |
Posted: June 05 2010 at 01:24 |
Absolutely untrue.
Progressive simply means evolving into something new or going foward. Punk didn't lack in innovation and it spawned off into post punk, new wave and alternative rock which all produced some very progressive music.
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 27958 |
Posted: June 05 2010 at 02:32 |
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XTC
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Malve87
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 19 2005 Location: Genova, Italy Status: Offline Points: 252 |
Posted: June 05 2010 at 06:26 |
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Mars Volta were called Punk Floyd.
First Muse's albums up to Absolution were punky. |
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CPicard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 03 2008 Location: Là, sui monti. Status: Offline Points: 10841 |
Posted: June 05 2010 at 08:28 |
It's not "Jean-Luc", it's "C". And I know a bit Uz Jsme Doma, for having read an interview of their guitarist in the French ProZine Traverses nearly 10 years ago. But I only know the mp3's they provide on their site: it's difficult to find their records in France, unless they tour in the country. My sentence about "Progressive Punk / Avant-garde Punk" was a reply to the mention of the Swans, nothing more, nothing less. From what I know, some punk-rock musicians enjoy Progressive Rock: John Lydon (fan of VdGG or Hawkwind), Captain Sensible from the Damned (whose band managed to release a 17 minute song on their Black Album in 1980)... Judging by some creations from the "Post-Punk / New Wave" scene, Punk appears to me a renewal of the whole genre of Rock, soon to split in various tendancies: Hardcore Punk Vs. a new set of Art-Rock. Wire, Cocteau Twins, Dead Can Dance, Nomeanso... All in their own way created some kind of new Art Rock, Progressive Punk or any other innovative form of rock music. Even Black Flag, coming from the first wave of US Hardcore Punk, managed to perform some records closer to a pre-Jazz-Metal genre than anything labeled as "Punk" - which shows that some Punk bands can "progress" and present an interesting evolution in their music. |
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The Hemulen
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 31 2004 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 5964 |
Posted: June 05 2010 at 09:59 |
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trackstoni
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 23 2008 Location: Lebanon Status: Offline Points: 934 |
Posted: June 05 2010 at 11:21 |
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Punk cannot , and i mean cannot , be Progressive . Not Yesterday , not Today , not even Tomorrow !!!!!!
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Tracking Tracks of Rock
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WalterDigsTunes
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 11 2007 Location: SanDiegoTijuana Status: Offline Points: 4373 |
Posted: June 05 2010 at 11:29 |
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^
Read the thread. Clearly, it has. |
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akamaisondufromage
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: May 16 2009 Location: Blighty Status: Offline Points: 6797 |
Posted: June 05 2010 at 12:20 |
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^ Well It's a shame that 'trackstoni doesn't elaborate as I'm sure there is a debate to be had.
I suppose it may depend on if you see Punk as just a genre of music (There are punks who would say that as soon as you add a guitar solo then its not punk so goodbye to The Damned even though they were one of the first) or as an attitude/way of life? I personally think it adds up to more than just a genre of music and that you can have progressive / punk hybrids but as I haven't got a clue what progressive music is anyway I wouldn't like to define it - I wouldn't pigeon hole anyway as it really doesn't matter.
The band I always whine on about ad nauseum are Magazine ex Buzzcocks Howerd Devoto goes new wave postpunk prog. But I would add a lot of the later early eighties 'Goth' bands to this who weren't called goth originally. All the usual suspects Bauhaus/Siouxsie and Sex Gang/ Virgin Prunes/ UK Decay etc I think they were all highly inventive and certainly progressed music as a whole. I wouldn't think they were progressive though. But then you might know otherwise?
 By the way The Cardiacs (Not heard them but sound interesting) remind me of The Virgin Prunes?
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Help me I'm falling!
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CPicard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 03 2008 Location: Là, sui monti. Status: Offline Points: 10841 |
Posted: June 06 2010 at 04:39 |
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Do they??? Well, the Virgin Prunes were clearly less "pop" than the Cardiacs! Some of their tracks are to be categorized as "industrial music", a lot of them are more or less experimental, often atmospheric.
The Cardiacs are much, much, MUCH more catchy than the Virgin Prunes. By the way, good idea to talk about the 80's UK Goth scene: I always thought that Bauhaus, Siouxsie & the Banshees and even Sisters of Mercy and Fields of Nephilim were... Not progressive, but at least daring and innovative. |
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator
Jazz-Rock Specialist Joined: April 19 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 12812 |
Posted: June 06 2010 at 08:31 |
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Started a blog thread inspired by Random Hold about 2 years ago. This was in part about: what happens to less successful musicians when the music scene moves on and perhaps they can't (literally) afford to be left behind - equally they get tired of ploughing the same furrow:
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=48113 Nobody mentioned son of Clash, Big Audio Dynamite, wrt punk progressing. |
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CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |
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EatThatPhonebook
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2009 Location: Norwich, VT Status: Offline Points: 788 |
Posted: June 06 2010 at 08:37 |
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Stonebolt
Forum Groupie 
Joined: May 04 2010 Status: Offline Points: 91 |
Posted: June 06 2010 at 10:17 |
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Green day has two concept albums, just mentioning that because nobody has yet.
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akamaisondufromage
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: May 16 2009 Location: Blighty Status: Offline Points: 6797 |
Posted: June 06 2010 at 10:56 |
Hmm I just said they reminded me of VPs. Just from listening to the YouTube above. I listened to it again and yes they are very distinct and I think it was the vocal style that made me think this especially the end of the song. I went on and listened to a few others on Youtube and there isn't much more than that they share. I am surprised I have never listened to them before as they have been going so long. The VPs were quite catchy though they just tended not to get much airplay
 .The other so called gothic bands you mention are certainly progressive* (Although I annoyed Dean once by questioning the originality of FOTN as I had just heard the first album I think I described them as second rate Sisters or similar
) I think one of the ways they did this was by introducing new (sometimes borrowed) rythms into rock music (Tribal/ dance/ reggae/ dub etc) Not that that would make them popular in Prog circles. *I do not mean to say they are progrock.  heaven forbid. They changed punk music in one way or another.Edited by akamaisondufromage - June 06 2010 at 10:58 |
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Help me I'm falling!
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Marty McFly wrote: