"Punk Prog???
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Forum Name: General Music Discussions
Forum Description: Discuss and create polls about all types of music
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=67968
Printed Date: November 24 2024 at 01:22
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Topic: "Punk Prog???
Posted By: desistindo
Subject: "Punk Prog???
Date Posted: June 02 2010 at 20:10
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I took the idea to create this topic when i first listen, last week, the band Random Hold. Well, people general associate the "decandence"of prog in early 80´s music with the "rise" of punk and new wave scene. So, punk, for its "simple musical proposal" is seen as a antagonism of "prog virtuosism", wich makes a fusion of the genres improbable. But, back to Random Hold, i have to say thats not a fantastic band, but makes me think about that fusion. I dont know if u have listen to Random Hold, but it is actually a fusion of Post Punk with elements of prog (peter gabriel made an intro for the live album). I´d like to ask you wich bands do you may consider a fusion of punk and prog. I remember also that some critcs reviews consider some of the Peter Hammil´s solo albuns, such as Nadir´s Big Chance a kind of proto punk influence. |
Replies:
Posted By: Tsevir Leirbag
Date Posted: June 02 2010 at 20:19
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Débile Menthol
Cardiacs
This Heat ------------- Les mains, les pieds balancés Sur tant de mers, tant de planchers, Un marin mort, Il dormira - Paul Éluard |
Posted By: The Monodrone
Date Posted: June 02 2010 at 20:41
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Coheed and Cambria
early Mars Volta
Circa Survive -------------  
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Posted By: ProgressiveAttic
Date Posted: June 02 2010 at 20:50
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Hawkwind was kind of punky and an influence on the punk movement.... ------------- Michael's Sonic Kaleidoscope Mondays 5:00pm EST(re-runs Thursdays 3:00pm) @ Delicious Agony Progressive Rock Radio(http://www.deliciousagony.com) 
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Posted By: Dorsalia
Date Posted: June 02 2010 at 21:33
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Yeah! Punk-Prog-Rock-Heavy-Postmodern-Art-Proto-Neo-Retro-Minimalistic-Psychedelic!
------------- "Es ist übrigens unmöglich, eine Meinung zu haben, ohne dass es unerfreuliche Überschneidungen gibt. Die Grünen sind für den deutschen Wald, die NPD ebenfalls." |
Posted By: Bonnek
Date Posted: June 02 2010 at 22:12
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One title: Nomeansno - Why Do They Call Me Mr Happy? |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: June 02 2010 at 23:44
Try PIL's Compact Disc. It might just be one of those things you need. 
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: NecronCommander
Date Posted: June 02 2010 at 23:48
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NOFX has an 18-minute song. ...  |
Posted By: CinemaZebra
Date Posted: June 02 2010 at 23:58
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Primus are on this site...I'm still trying to figure out why... ------------- 
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Posted By: Falx
Date Posted: June 03 2010 at 00:43
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Uz Jsme Doma, definitely.
------------- "You must go beyond the limit of the limit of your limits!" - Mr. Doctor "It is our duty as men and women to proceed as though the limits of our abilities do not exist." - Pierre Teilhard de Chardin |
Posted By: thedunno
Date Posted: June 03 2010 at 01:00
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Cardiacs are the godfather of the 'pronk' sound (=punk+prog)
They are also my favourite band
ever.
Sing to God part 1 & 2 is also my all time favourite album.
Check em out! recently all their albums were uploaded on Itunes.
Joost
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Posted By: Rottenhat
Date Posted: June 03 2010 at 13:30
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Cardiacs are fine. Sometimes. Pronk almost rhymes with drunk, I think that is the state of mind they works best :)
------------- Language is a virus from outer space. -William S. Burroughs |
Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: June 03 2010 at 13:31
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http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=3727 - Kultur Shock.
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Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: June 03 2010 at 13:34
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Posted By: Wiktor Hatif
Date Posted: June 03 2010 at 14:24
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The Cure's "Faith" album is quite space-rocky and psychedelic. By the way it's a really great album, one of the few "simple" albums that has magic...
------------- "Ffffaaahhh, seeko baaaaaa Neeeeee toe, kare lo yeahhh Sa sa sa sa saa! Fssss Drrrrrrrrr bo ki! Rapateeka! do go taaaam Rapateeka! do go tchaa" - "Atom Heart Mother" Pink Floyd/Ron Geesin |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: June 03 2010 at 14:28
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Killing Joke
The Stranglers ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: June 03 2010 at 19:20
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The Boredoms have a punk aesthetic. And Iceburn (who are not on the site but definitely should be) started out as a hardcore outfit with horns and got increasingly RIO/Jazz-fusiony and generally wierd and spastic.
Also there's a punkish band called Titus Andronicus who just did a concept album about the civil war called The Monitor. Ends with a 14 minute song called The Battle Of Hampton Roads which is very prog, even has a bagpipe segment.
The elephant in the room is Green Day's last two albums which were both concepts. American Idiot has two 9 minute songs, both quite proggy with multiple movements, Jesus Of Suburbia and Homecoming.
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Posted By: Marty McFly
Date Posted: June 03 2010 at 19:35
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Oh yeah, taking the best from both Punk and according Prog genres into raw, wild performance. With even weirder lyrics, which most of you won't (sadly) understand. ------------- There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless," -Andyman1125 on Lulu  Even my |
Falx wrote:Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: June 03 2010 at 19:42
| Killing Joke is the best example I got |
Posted By: Falx
Date Posted: June 04 2010 at 06:30
 =F= ------------- "You must go beyond the limit of the limit of your limits!" - Mr. Doctor "It is our duty as men and women to proceed as though the limits of our abilities do not exist." - Pierre Teilhard de Chardin |
Posted By: desistindo
Date Posted: June 04 2010 at 08:50
| This Cardiac sound its very interesting in deed... Can be "Swans" be consider a prog/punk band? |
Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: June 04 2010 at 14:44
| Avant-garde punk, maybe - progressive punk, I doubt it. |
Posted By: Marty McFly
Date Posted: June 04 2010 at 16:34
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Jean-Luc Picard, try to search youtube for some UZ JSME DOMA songs, tell me what do you think about them :-) And by the way, you're probably right, there can't be progression of Punk, this genre is opposite of Prog by nature. However, we can appreciate Avant-Garde Punk groups as they are much more closer to how we understand Prog. ------------- There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless," -Andyman1125 on Lulu Even my |
Posted By: Dorsalia
Date Posted: June 04 2010 at 18:17
Poor people, blinded by genre. ------------- "Es ist übrigens unmöglich, eine Meinung zu haben, ohne dass es unerfreuliche Überschneidungen gibt. Die Grünen sind für den deutschen Wald, die NPD ebenfalls." |
Posted By: Anthony H.
Date Posted: June 04 2010 at 21:38
Because Primus are badass? |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: June 04 2010 at 21:56
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At the Drive In did this with their last album, Relationship of Command. Very clear and defined prog rock influences in the sound. Perhaps a step further of this was the band Refused, with their album The Shape of Punk to Come. Fundamentally a hardcore band, but musically it was a mile away from straight out hardcore. Challenging arrangements and musicianship and extreme levels of creativity going on. ------------- 
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Posted By: TheLastBaron
Date Posted: June 04 2010 at 22:13
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Definitely Coheed and Cambria ( with tinges of metal and emo, could call it pronkemeto) and The Mars Volta's first album.
------------- " Men are not prisoners of fate, but prisoners of their own minds." - FDR |
Posted By: boo boo
Date Posted: June 05 2010 at 01:24
Absolutely untrue.
Progressive simply means evolving into something new or going foward. Punk didn't lack in innovation and it spawned off into post punk, new wave and alternative rock which all produced some very progressive music. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs/?chartstyle=LastfmSuicjdeGirls" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: June 05 2010 at 02:32
| XTC |
Posted By: Malve87
Date Posted: June 05 2010 at 06:26
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Mars Volta were called Punk Floyd. First Muse's albums up to Absolution were punky. ------------- ] 
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Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: June 05 2010 at 08:28
It's not "Jean-Luc", it's "C". And I know a bit Uz Jsme Doma, for having read an interview of their guitarist in the French ProZine Traverses nearly 10 years ago. But I only know the mp3's they provide on their site: it's difficult to find their records in France, unless they tour in the country. My sentence about "Progressive Punk / Avant-garde Punk" was a reply to the mention of the Swans, nothing more, nothing less. From what I know, some punk-rock musicians enjoy Progressive Rock: John Lydon (fan of VdGG or Hawkwind), Captain Sensible from the Damned (whose band managed to release a 17 minute song on their Black Album in 1980)... Judging by some creations from the "Post-Punk / New Wave" scene, Punk appears to me a renewal of the whole genre of Rock, soon to split in various tendancies: Hardcore Punk Vs. a new set of Art-Rock. Wire, Cocteau Twins, Dead Can Dance, Nomeanso... All in their own way created some kind of new Art Rock, Progressive Punk or any other innovative form of rock music. Even Black Flag, coming from the first wave of US Hardcore Punk, managed to perform some records closer to a pre-Jazz-Metal genre than anything labeled as "Punk" - which shows that some Punk bands can "progress" and present an interesting evolution in their music. |
Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: June 05 2010 at 09:59
Posted By: trackstoni
Date Posted: June 05 2010 at 11:21
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Punk cannot , and i mean cannot , be Progressive . Not Yesterday , not Today , not even Tomorrow !!!!!! ------------- Tracking Tracks of Rock |
Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: June 05 2010 at 11:29
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^ Read the thread. Clearly, it has. |
Posted By: akamaisondufromage
Date Posted: June 05 2010 at 12:20
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^ Well It's a shame that 'trackstoni doesn't elaborate as I'm sure there is a debate to be had.
I suppose it may depend on if you see Punk as just a genre of music (There are punks who would say that as soon as you add a guitar solo then its not punk so goodbye to The Damned even though they were one of the first) or as an attitude/way of life? I personally think it adds up to more than just a genre of music and that you can have progressive / punk hybrids but as I haven't got a clue what progressive music is anyway I wouldn't like to define it - I wouldn't pigeon hole anyway as it really doesn't matter.
The band I always whine on about ad nauseum are Magazine ex Buzzcocks Howerd Devoto goes new wave postpunk prog. But I would add a lot of the later early eighties 'Goth' bands to this who weren't called goth originally. All the usual suspects Bauhaus/Siouxsie and Sex Gang/ Virgin Prunes/ UK Decay etc I think they were all highly inventive and certainly progressed music as a whole. I wouldn't think they were progressive though. But then you might know otherwise?
 By the way The Cardiacs (Not heard them but sound interesting) remind me of The Virgin Prunes? ------------- Help me I'm falling! |
Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: June 06 2010 at 04:39
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Do they??? Well, the Virgin Prunes were clearly less "pop" than the Cardiacs! Some of their tracks are to be categorized as "industrial music", a lot of them are more or less experimental, often atmospheric. The Cardiacs are much, much, MUCH more catchy than the Virgin Prunes. By the way, good idea to talk about the 80's UK Goth scene: I always thought that Bauhaus, Siouxsie & the Banshees and even Sisters of Mercy and Fields of Nephilim were... Not progressive, but at least daring and innovative. |
Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: June 06 2010 at 08:31
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Started a blog thread inspired by Random Hold about 2 years ago. This was in part about: what happens to less successful musicians when the music scene moves on and perhaps they can't (literally) afford to be left behind - equally they get tired of ploughing the same furrow: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=48113 Nobody mentioned son of Clash, Big Audio Dynamite, wrt punk progressing. ------------- The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS. CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php - http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |
Posted By: EatThatPhonebook
Date Posted: June 06 2010 at 08:37
Mmmhhh... ------------- 
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Posted By: Stonebolt
Date Posted: June 06 2010 at 10:17
| Green day has two concept albums, just mentioning that because nobody has yet. |
Posted By: akamaisondufromage
Date Posted: June 06 2010 at 10:56
Hmm I just said they reminded me of VPs. Just from listening to the YouTube above. I listened to it again and yes they are very distinct and I think it was the vocal style that made me think this especially the end of the song. I went on and listened to a few others on Youtube and there isn't much more than that they share. I am surprised I have never listened to them before as they have been going so long. The VPs were quite catchy though they just tended not to get much airplay
 .The other so called gothic bands you mention are certainly progressive* (Although I annoyed Dean once by questioning the originality of FOTN as I had just heard the first album I think I described them as second rate Sisters or similar
) I think one of the ways they did this was by introducing new (sometimes borrowed) rythms into rock music (Tribal/ dance/ reggae/ dub etc) Not that that would make them popular in Prog circles. *I do not mean to say they are progrock.  heaven forbid. They changed punk music in one way or another.------------- Help me I'm falling! |
Posted By: nevbox
Date Posted: June 07 2010 at 05:02
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At The Drive-In's Relationship Of Command Most of The Mars Volta Omar Rodriguez Lopez's Cryptomnsesia RX Bandits' last album Muse is pretty punk sometimes |
Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: June 07 2010 at 07:26
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This topic was already covered by me :
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=65144&KW=post+punk&PID=3553884#3553884 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=65144&KW=post+punk&PID=3553884#3553884
and also one thread was started previously by trouserpress :
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=64585&KW=post+punk&PID=3526832#3526832 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=64585&KW=post+punk&PID=3526832#3526832
------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: Raredrumd
Date Posted: June 07 2010 at 08:37
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Killing Joke
Coheed & Cambria
A Rare Fish
A rare fish is the best progressive punk band out there.
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Posted By: Tengent
Date Posted: June 07 2010 at 10:40
| Supersister has always seemed punky to me. |
Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: June 07 2010 at 10:52
 Really? |
Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: June 07 2010 at 12:34
In ProgArchives, no one hears you thread. |
Posted By: omvibes
Date Posted: June 08 2010 at 07:04
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For a more literally 'prog-punk' album, how about Planet Gong 'Floating anarchy 77' live album? Daevid Allen of Gong, together with festival/ punk outfit Here and Now... ------------- www.myspace.com/omvibraphone www.myspace.com/astrakan www.myspace.com/litmusspacerock |
Posted By: CinemaZebra
Date Posted: June 08 2010 at 13:05
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