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Okocha 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 13 2007
Location: Greece
Status: Offline
Points: 681
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 Posted: May 25 2010 at 10:05 |
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Yes, a footballer is entitled to have a wage of 10 millions a year in this kind of economic system while millions of people and kids die every year out of hunger and lack of water. While 50% of ALL the people on earth live under the 1 dollar limit of poverty. Yes, I think it's ok!
Football clubs pay the footballer's taxes. Ten millions is his income. If you search on the net you will find all the info you need.
Edited by Okocha - May 25 2010 at 10:13
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Okocha
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 13 2007
Location: Greece
Status: Offline
Points: 681
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Posted: May 25 2010 at 10:12 |
 snobb wrote:
Okocha wrote:
Bigger countries like US, Germany, France, England, Italy etc have bigger debts than Greece and Portugal but nobody talks about it. How come?
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Easy answer- their population is much bigger, they have industry and economics, and they 100% will return their debts. And they work hard for hundred years.
Greece has only 10 millions population, big part of them are children, retired people and public workers (who spend money, don't produce nothing). All world's economists and politics agree in one - Greece with their level of economy and industrialisation has no chances to return back their recent debt. But the problem is deeper - Greece need more money just to live at the same standard they're living till now. What means bigger debt with no ideas how and when to return it back.
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It's quite helpful for people in these countries to think that they live all of their lifes just to pay off the debts... A dreamy life!!! I've got a question for you. If all these countries (which are the world's super-economic powers, US, Germany, France etc) are in debt, WHO they owe money???
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snobb
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: August 20 2009
Location: Vilnius,LT,EU
Status: Offline
Points: 3584
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Posted: May 25 2010 at 10:19 |
You can take just a handbook for economy students and will find the answer. It's easy, but too separate question for this thread , I afraid  . When you have , even very basic knowledge of economics, you will understand all proceses better
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Okocha
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 13 2007
Location: Greece
Status: Offline
Points: 681
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Posted: May 25 2010 at 10:23 |
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You mean I'll understand better the fraud... No offence but I don't want to! In the meantime I think I'll work my life to pay off, whoever I'm in debt to...
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snobb
Special Collaborator
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Joined: August 20 2009
Location: Vilnius,LT,EU
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Points: 3584
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Posted: May 25 2010 at 10:29 |
Easy - you (or your parents or grandparents,etc)didn't need to make such a big debts if you don't wan't to return its. Now, when the money are spent, no time to discuss if you like or not to return what you spend. But it's a good time do decide about future: want you live poor life from your real income, or want you take increase your debts, to live better, and your children will hate you, when they will need to return back your debts.
Edited by snobb - May 25 2010 at 10:30
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Zebedee
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 02 2009
Location: The Woods
Status: Offline
Points: 1588
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Posted: May 25 2010 at 10:30 |
Okocha wrote:
I've got a question for you. If all these countries (which are the
world's super-economic powers, US, Germany, France etc) are in debt, WHO
they owe money???
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Individual investors
and corporations, pension funds, governments (both foreign governments and the own government) etc. Basically anyone or anything with a large amount of cash looking for something to invest in. For example, the US national debt mostly consists of US government money (52%) in the form of huge national savings acounts. 4 trillion dollars is from public investments, while 8,5 trillion (25%) consists of money from foreign governments like Japan, China and the oil exporting countries. Other big holders of the US debt are individual investors, local governments, pension funds etc.
Edited by Zebedee - May 25 2010 at 10:44
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Friendship is like wetting your pants: everyone can see it, but only you can feel its warmth.
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Okocha
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 13 2007
Location: Greece
Status: Offline
Points: 681
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Posted: May 25 2010 at 10:41 |
snobb wrote:
Easy - you (or your parents or grandparents,etc)didn't need to make such a big debts if you don't wan't to return its. Now, when the money are spent, no time to discuss if you like or not to return what you spend.
But it's a good time do decide about future: want you live poor life from your real income, or want you take increase your debts, to live better, and your children will hate you, when they will need to return back your debts.
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Maybe you should tell these things to the 50+% of earth population under the 1 dollar limit. They will be very happy to hear it! In Greece there is an old saying which goes (in free translation): when someone points the sun, you stare at the finger! Have a nice working-life. Andreas
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snobb
Special Collaborator
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Joined: August 20 2009
Location: Vilnius,LT,EU
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Points: 3584
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Posted: May 25 2010 at 10:50 |
Okocha wrote:
Have a nice working-life.
Andreas
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Thanks, man, I have it yet ( my working life/social security is 25 yrs till now and I am going to work at least 20 more yrs). All the best to you as well. Only working human being could live better  .
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harmonium.ro
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 18 2008
Location: Anna Calvi
Status: Offline
Points: 22989
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Posted: May 25 2010 at 10:56 |
Okocha wrote:
Yes, a footballer is entitled to have a wage of 10 millions a year in
this kind of economic system while millions of people and kids die every
year out of hunger and lack of water. While 50% of ALL the people on
earth live under the 1 dollar limit of poverty. Yes, I think it's ok!
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I see no connection with the fact that there are some big businesses and poverty in the world. Is the football business built on exploiting the poor and the starving?  There are businesses who exploit the poor but... football?
Okocha wrote:
Football
clubs pay the footballer's taxes. Ten millions is his income. If you
search on the net you will find all the info you need. |
Regardless if the taxes are paid by the club or the player returns the percent at the end of the fiscal year, it's the players money. Cristiano Ronaldo pays about 2.5 million pounds tax in Spain (and the bad mouths say that he left Manchester United because of the predictions that taxes for his level of income will become 50% in 2009.)
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tuxon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 21 2004
Location: plugged-in
Status: Offline
Points: 5502
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Posted: May 25 2010 at 11:10 |
I like how the system works.
economics based on creating debts, than shoving the debt down the throats of people who themselves never asked for those debts. as long as the people who benefittef from the creating of the debt get their poorly invested money back.
It's great isn't it.
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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
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harmonium.ro
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 18 2008
Location: Anna Calvi
Status: Offline
Points: 22989
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Posted: May 25 2010 at 11:19 |
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If people like early retirement, well paid jobs in the public sector, etc., without having the economy to sustain them, then it means they like debt.
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Finnforest
Special Collaborator
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Joined: February 03 2007
Location: The Heartland
Status: Offline
Points: 17219
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Posted: May 25 2010 at 11:45 |
I think you're right, Snobb.
The idealist in us all love the sound of socialist utopias. Sounds great. It just isn't realistic. There's not enough resources for the global worker to have cradle to grave benefits and retire early. I think other parts of Europe might be in danger of Greece's problems in the future. In the US, belts will get even tighter.
I pretty much realize I'll be working until I drop. Most of the people I know do. We'll just have to have our fun in between those shifts 
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...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell"
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aapatsos
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: November 11 2005
Location: Manchester, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 9226
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Posted: May 25 2010 at 15:15 |
snobb wrote:
Okocha wrote:
Have a nice working-life.
Andreas
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Thanks, man,
I have it yet ( my working life/social security is 25 yrs till now and I am going to work at least 20 more yrs).
All the best to you as well. Only working human being could live better .
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I have to back up Slava on this one. Working till you are 65 does not necessarily mean being a slave. Working is living - laying at the beach without doing nothing for 40 years is death. Laying at the beach on your holiday is living. You have to accept that you are paying for a pension over 40-45 years to earn your savings for 10-15 years (and that works if you do the calculations) With some people of our country (Greece) this is working quite the opposite and it is not sustainable by any means.
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aapatsos
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: November 11 2005
Location: Manchester, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 9226
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Posted: May 25 2010 at 15:20 |
Sean Trane wrote:
aapatsos wrote:
As a Greek living outside Greece, I would vote for the measures because I am aware of the uncontrolled public spending.
On the other hand some (and I say only some) of the protesters are right to complain - the money need to be returned first by those who spent it illegally
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Well, I pity Mr Everybody that will pay for the few culprits.... and my cousin is probably going to leave the place, because of
Greece is a very corruprted country, (even worse thanb my country) and cheating taxes is a national sport practised by many.... Most people that build their homes never finish the roof of their house, because while it's not finished, you cannot be taxed on the property.
but one has to know that civil servants (those very same that will see theie wages lowered by 15% in the new measures) are way overpaid and receive undue bonuses on top of never being nominatedto their post (can't be fired).....
Such as:
- premiums just for arriving to work on time >> can you imagine that???  - premiums for taking the lift to a different floor or going to another building to fetch files for work >>> poor thing   ...etc....
I'm all for job secirity (I've worked in the private sector and was squeezed like a lemon until I was dry...) but this is ridiculous 
No wonder that the country is broke.... |
there is some truth in your statements, thus my vote
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20403
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Posted: May 26 2010 at 04:22 |
Okocha wrote:
Guys do you really believe that people should work till their late 60's? I mean what's the point of living? You work at least 1/3 of your life as a slave, get a pension at 70 and then what? You die!
Some may call this laziness but I call it need for life!
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I agree that life should be about something else than work.... and that hopefully someday work will be redundant for humanity, but unfortunately... this is wishful thinking
Okocha wrote:
You really believe that a country can't pay it's bills because people have normal age retirement? Well, I believe that there is plenty of money. Plenty! But in the pockets of few who squeee the rest of us!
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Yes, plunging into cash-filled pockets might sound like a good solution.... but fortunes can easily travel across borders to avoid taxes
Look at the French and the Dutch >>> they've bought up most of Belgium's available housing (thus raising the general prices beyond the grasp of most average Belgians as an unwanted secondary effect) just to escape their own country's taxes on fortune....
Imagine those very same yachts you mentioned in another post still in Greek islands' waters, but the owner's bank accounts in the Bahamas ... life sucks big time in our Western/European modern society, but I'd still prefer that to most other alternatives on our planet.
aapatsos wrote:
snobb wrote:
Okocha wrote:
Have a nice working-life.
Andreas
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Thanks, man,
I have it yet ( my working life/social security is 25 yrs till now and I am going to work at least 20 more yrs).
All the best to you as well. Only working human being could live better .
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I have to back up Slava on this one. Working till you are 65 does not necessarily mean being a slave. Working is living - laying at the beach without doing nothing for 40 years is death. Laying at the beach on your holiday is living. You have to accept that you are paying for a pension over 40-45 years to earn your savings for 10-15 years (and that works if you do the calculations)
With some people of our country (Greece) this is working quite the opposite and it is not sustainable by any means.
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grim sordid thoughts, I say!! But unfortunately it's the way things go.
Edited by Sean Trane - May 27 2010 at 01:33
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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TGM: Orb
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 21 2007
Location: n/a
Status: Offline
Points: 8052
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Posted: May 26 2010 at 07:20 |
Okocha wrote:
Guys do you really believe that people should work till their late 60's? I mean what's the point of living? You work at least 1/3 of your life as a slave, get a pension at 70 and then what? You die!
You really believe that a country can't pay it's bills because people have normal age retirement? Well, I believe that there is plenty of money. Plenty! But in the pockets of few who squeee the rest of us!
Some may call this laziness but I call it need for life!
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Well, if you can make those rich people pay for your early retirements that's fine. Unfortunately, it's not going to be those people paying but those working to their late 60s in other European countries. Now, I don't really think that's OK.
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