Is Mike Portnoy ruining Dream Theater?

jampa17 wrote: [  Until now you are the only one worthy to answer to... so... let's see... if they want to explore different sounds like Muse or Evanescence then they are stealing, if they do the same old 90's prog metal, then they are not proggressing...? can you please define yourself...?

I will define myself: I'm not one of those who value music simply (or mostly) by their "progressiveness". I like prog, my favourite sub-genre is symphonic although I like much of other prog including quite some prog metal.

Edited by Gerinski - May 21 2010 at 16:22

I would want to think that they are really doing the music they really want to do right now. Then if I like it more or less it's my problem.

Gerinski wrote: I would want to think that they are really doing the music they really want to do right now. Then if I like it more or less it's my problem.   But for some strange reason I have a feeling as if this was not the case, as if they are making the music in a very cerebral and studied way, intentionally built to please as much a wide spectrum of fans as possible within their existing fanbase and maybe trying to pick up a few new ones (that is, trying to range from real metal to prog to "modern-commercial metal" and everything in between, and if possible trying to have also a song that can work decently as a single), instead of letting their talents fly freely. It's just an impression and I can be wrong.   Having said that, I admire Mike Portnoy for being such a hardworking musician (and amazing drummer, no question about that !)

I suspect that they chose to be a metal band, because that is what they enjoyed growing up and it is what they enjoy playing.  I suppose that they "stuck to the script" by playing some long songs, some short songs, some heavy songs, some light songs, etc... 

First off, I like The Incident.  Second off, you will be hard press to find too many people in the forum that will agree with you on your assessment of The Incident.  Most forum members seems to dislike The Incident as much, if not more than Black Clouds and Silver Linings.  Shouldn't detract from your liking The Incident, but I am just saying.  (Trust me I've seen enough snipes at both bands to last me a thousand lifetimes).

rushfan4 wrote: I suspect that they chose to be a metal band, because that is what they enjoyed growing up and it is what they enjoy playing.  I suppose that they "stuck to the script" by playing some long songs, some short songs, some heavy songs, some light songs, etc...

Whoa, settle down a wee bit. I was being ornery with the Incident comment. It's a fine album. Just compared to its predecessors, kinda lame. And in truth, that's kinda what Dream Theater is doing, too. Good albums, but ones that are less than those before them.

Honestly, neither Dream Theater nor Porcupine Tree are particularly evolutionary or progressive. PT's moved through a few styles throughout the years, yes, but having seen the dark side of artists like Zappa make pretty much everything else look stagnant. And that might be my issue in and of itself. Frankly, the idea of looking for continued progression is a disheartening pipe dream. No band, at least not any band that lives past twenty years, really goes anywhere new on a consistent basis. You'll be hard-pressed to find a half dozen bands today that have significantly evolved and modified from release to release over four albums.

And sorry, Jlocke. Not trying to be redundant about Meshuggah. I had three of theirs for a while before I just gave up and sold them. Unless you are really into rhythm or pure anger, there's not much to recommend the band. I'm not picking on an easy target, just a well-known one.

The bands that sit at the forefront, the "popular prog" ones if you will, are by nature less radical and less innovative--though King Crimson could possibly be an exception. Most of them (Dream Theater, Genesis, Yes, Porcupine Tree, Pink Floyd, ELP, IQ, etc.) stick to one specific sound, with some evolution but little revolution. Is that bad? No. Just wondering if some of you are holding Dream Theater to a ridiculously higher standard (let's be honest, I am) than you hold other bands. The answer is simple: if you are looking for bands that constantly reinvent themselves, push boundaries, that kind of thing, don't go looking for today's or yesterday's most popular acts. Look for the no-namers, or at least less famous ones. Even among the prog world, the milk that can be easiest to agree on is the most popular.

Of course, I don't expect anyone to care. At least my last post got some replies, which is refreshing.

It's officially an EP.

Yeah. Okay, I was harsh on them earlier. And admittedly, they are slightly fun to pick on.

I owned Catch 33, Destroy Erase Improve, and I for around a year. Listened to them each a bunch. I liked a few parts of Catch 33. But basically I was just listening in the hopes that something would click, unlock in them. But they just felt like overly intentional rhythmic technicality and exaggerated anger, and neither of those are really me. I like some tech metal stuff, but that never worked. And honestly, when ObZen came out, I listened to some of their stuff that I could stream. It was nothing remotely surprising. What it seems to me that Meshuggah has done is find this little niche of music that they can do really well, and they're exploring it very carefully and creatively. Within the space of what they are, they are creative and evolutionary. But in the grand scheme of music... they are one thing and one thing only.

They are just one of those bands that sound very static and dry unless you stare really closely at them for a long period of time. And maybe only if you're a drummer in the first place.


Edited by LiquidEternity - May 21 2010 at 17:38

it's incredible how a Newbie open a thread and everybody fall out with the same old DT discussion.

OH... Albert... didn't see you in month... again... in a DT thread... how a surprise..!!!

Edited by jampa17 - May 21 2010 at 17:57