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Topic ClosedUK General election 2010

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Poll Question: Who are you/would you vote for?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
4 [23.53%]
2 [11.76%]
5 [29.41%]
2 [11.76%]
0 [0.00%]
1 [5.88%]
2 [11.76%]
0 [0.00%]
1 [5.88%]
This topic is closed, no new votes accepted

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RoyFairbank View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2010 at 18:54
I can explain the British "Left" quite easily without looking anything up (oh wait maybe because I'm a goddamn stinking pinko... Ermm"

British Labour Party- Second International (from the 1890s)
went reformist very quickly as did the 2I, under the influence of figures like Bernstein, and by the 1900s had resulted in Millerandism, where a Socialist Party member became part of a capitalist government. In 1914 the International fell apart as each section supported its own capitalist government in the war. Offspring include the Social Democratic Party Of Germany, founded by Karl Marx ironically, now a right wing party of course. The Socialist Party of France, the defunct Socialist Party of America, led famously by Eugene Debs, and many others besides Labour.

in 1920s British sympathizers of the Russian Revolution formed the British Communist Party to fight for the principles of Socialism against the reformists
Stalinist counter-revolution took over the Soviet Union and the Third International was purged of genuine socialists. The parties were then, after a brief so called "ultraleft" period, instructed to back up the Social Democrats in a policy known as the Popular Front, which prevented revolutions from taking place in Europe.

in the 1930s real socialists abandoned any attempt to break the Communist Party from Stalin's grip and formed a British section of the Fourth International. In 1940, Trotsky, the FI's leader, was finally assassinated by Stalin after years of pursuit and after the murder of all his family members and comrades.

Following WWII, a large section of the Fourth International decided that it should be liquidated into the Stalinist parties and third world movements. These were the Pabloites. Groups in Britain reflected Pabloism (groups like the Militant Tendency), the "State Capitalists" group led by Tony Cliff (eventually represented by Socialist Workers Party), which was quite similar, and the International Committee party of derisively named orthodox or ortho-Trotskyists whose party was the Socialist Labour League. The Socialist Labour League became the Workers Revolutionary Party in 1973, and was the largest left wing party in Britain. In 1985, it split three ways as the result of the decision by the leaders that Pabloism was correct and the party should be liquidated and become subordinated to the Stalinist parties and third world movements. This was largely because they were demoralized by the conservative turn in the 1980s. A small segment of the party, however, remained loyal to the Fourth International and was vindicated by the fall of the Soviet Union, which was declared impossible only a few years before by the demoralized leaders (Banda and Healy). They continued on as the Socialist Equaliy Party, and want to rebuild the party on firmer foundations based on internationalism.

As for the Militant Tendency, it tried to rise to the top of Labour by entering into it, but its members were expelled in the 80s, ruining the stratagem, Ted Grant, it leader, died in the 2000s. The SWP is also opportunistic, teaming up with Labour politicians and promoting wide alliances. They have abandoned revolutionary change for supporting in practice Labour - they want to be a "junior partner." This is common, and there are equivalent organizations in the USA such as the International Socialist Organization, which is a middle class type protest organization.

etc.

^off the top of my marvelous head and I'm an American AND most of this stuff happened way before I was born Rawks


Edited by RoyFairbank - April 13 2010 at 18:59
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The Hemulen View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 14 2010 at 05:14
Originally posted by PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn wrote:

Originally posted by Trouserpress Trouserpress wrote:

I've been giving this way too much thought, recently. I might as well share.

I popped onto http://www.politicalcompass.org the other day to see how I squared up to the three main parties... I'm way out in an opposite corner of the grid! It says I'm closest to the Greens, but they won't be getting my vote due to some their absurd anti-science policies and ill-thought out hippyisms (ban all zoos, etc.). So basically, if I want to vote on policy grounds I'm f**ked. That only really leaves tactical voting (aim: keep out Tories at all costs).

I'm currently in a Labour constituency, but I have no idea how safe a seat it is. The last thing I want to do is toss a vote to the Lib Dems (who I agree with on a few things but nowhere near enough to actively support the party as a whole) if that's just going to result in a gain for the Tories in my area. Gah. What a headache our ridiculous, f**ked-up electoral system is.


I get shoved in over the Greens (a bit more of a left and libertarian than them however) and they got a fair few things I agree with, but as you say they are a bit anti-science (particularly their statement to "end" nuclear power) 
if I vote, it'd probably be the LibDems,

Originally posted by Trouserpress Trouserpress wrote:

Hooray for FPTP! http://www.voterpower.org.uk


according to that I have the voting power of  1.220

Yep, I'm in the same territory on Political Compass. When I had a bash at this I unwittingly went for Green policies every time as well. I'll probably be voting Lib Dem 'cause a vote for the Greens would be utterly wasted where I am. It was almost a close run thing between Labour and Tories in 2005 here, so if there is a swing it's doubtful it'll be towards the Lib Dems, but I simply cannot bring myself to vote Labour. Of course, if we lived in a real democracy I wouldn't need to consider any of this, and simply vote for the party that best represented my views. Bah.

Anyway, with that high voting power it looks like you've got a chance to make an actual difference with your vote. Which constituency are you in, if you don't mind my asking?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 14 2010 at 06:21

Parties should acknowledge that voting for them is not a support of their policies but simply the choice of the lesser of evils.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 14 2010 at 07:57
Originally posted by npjnpj npjnpj wrote:

Parties should acknowledge that voting for them is not a support of their policies but simply the choice of the lesser of evils.



Well, you'll probably find that most of the electorate dont actually know what the parties policies are. Even after reading a manifesto, you're not likely to be any the wiser.
Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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npjnpj View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 14 2010 at 08:15
Well, as is well known to the electorate:
 
Labour helps the poor, Conservatives help the poor by helping the rich, and the LibDems....erm....
 
Anyway, in the end they help us and each other by helping themselves.
 
You should never change a ruling party because they've already stuffed their pockets.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 14 2010 at 12:45
Originally posted by Trouserpress Trouserpress wrote:

Originally posted by Green Shield Stamp Green Shield Stamp wrote:

I will vote for the Labour Party.
 
I think the Tories will probably win the election, but they will not have an overall majority.  For the kind of swing needed for an overall win, at this stage they would be expected to be getting 40% in the polls, but they are currently at 36%.
 
However, I don't think a hung parliament is necessarily a bad thing.  There are no massive ideological differences between the main parties anymore (unlike the extreme polarisation we saw in the 1970s and 80s). Consensus politics could be an effective change for the better.


I agree with this to some extent. There's a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth at the prospect of a hung parliament, but it always seems to come from "the party faithful" who naturally want their party to have a powerful majority. Right now a lot of people in this country honestly don't much care for any of 'em, so a little co-operation and bargaining between the main parties certainly wouldn't go amiss.

Where I disagree with you is on your suggestion (and do correct me if I'm misreading your comments) that a lack of ideological difference between the major parties is a good thing in itself. Personally I think this slavish retreat to the middle ground (and obsession with the middle classes) has been a significant contributing factor to the overall levels of political disengagement in this country. Anyone who holds strong convictions which lie either side of the moderate "consensus" view is made to feel like a fanatic.

Furthermore, middle-ground consensus results in tedious, petty squabbling over which taxes should be raised and by how many quarters of half a percent. Nobody's fighting for the big issues in this election; climate change, education, public transport, foreign policy, banking reform - those are the issues I want my politicians arguing about, not f**king paltry token bribes for married couples and the like. These are the kinds of issues which should be at the heart of politics in this country. [/rant]
No, I don't think it's a good thing that the parties occupy an increasingly narrowing middle ground.  I was trying to say that the current political climate might lend itself to the consensus required for a hung parliament. The political polarisation of the past (although fine for majority governments) made the prospect of a hung parliament extremely impractical.
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