UK General election 2010

^ Not at all

Speaking as an outsider: I didn't know that Labour's movement towards the right and (neo)liberal policies during Blair's reign was so frustrating for its supporters, I've always thought them as fairly representative of the British left. 

harmonium.ro wrote: ^ Not at all Speaking as an outsider: I didn't know that Labour's movement towards the right and (neo)liberal policies during Blair's reign was so frustrating for its supporters, I've always thought them as fairly representative of the British left.

Labour had to abandon their socialist values in order to get elected. The previous Tory government had privatised all our utilities and transport. Labour had a clause in their constitution which committed the party to public ownership of such things. Bascially the Tories left a very strong consumer capitilist legacy that couldn't be undone, without going through huge economic upheaval. The Tories basically made sure that Britain would never fall into the hands of the socialists ever again.

In the early 80's, Tony Bliar, then Labour MP for Beaconsfield, was already talking of the need to reform and 'modernise' the Labour party, as he saw the Tories selling off the family silver, and relinquishing the state of as much responsibility to its citizens as possible.

NuLabour is not a socialist party. In fact they are almost to the right of John Majors Tory government. Their pandering to big business and their stealth taxes on the poor, while snuggling up to the well off, make them distinctly right wing imo. Only the Liberal Democrats have a manifesto with any socialist credentials and no one votes for them, as they consider it a wasted vote.

Political parties have a choise as far as I can see; upset the rich, or upset the poor. They cant be all things to all men, and that's what Labour have tried to do.

It's basically a case of "Don't vote, the Government will get in!"

I've always been Labour but don't think I can bring myself to vote for them this time, particularly since they were insane enough to elect Harriet Harman deputy leader.

All the parties seem to be offering the same thing - economically conservative and socially liberal. This is bit of a problem for me since I'm economically liberal but socially conservative.

They say you get the government you deserve so maybe that's what's happened in the UK. Egalitarian economic policies offered by old school Labour were continually rejected by the electorate so we've ended up with all the parties pretending to be a cuddlier version of Thatcherism.

If Screaming Lord Sutch was still around I'd probably vote for him - after all he did promise to set all accountants in cement and use them as tunnel supports on the London Underground!

Hooray for FPTP! http://www.voterpower.org.uk

Tony R wrote: I'm a member of The Labour Party so my vote for them is a given. Labour will lose because the average voter believes "it is time for a change and they're all the same any way..."

Yes , but thats because its time for a change and they're all the same anyway

Jon The Impaler wrote: Cactus Choir wrote: It's basically a case of "Don't vote, the Government will get in!" I've always been Labour but don't think I can bring myself to vote for them this time, particularly since they were insane enough to elect Harriet Harman deputy leader. All the parties seem to be offering the same thing - economically conservative and socially liberal. This is bit of a problem for me since I'm economically liberal but socially conservative. They say you get the government you deserve so maybe that's what's happened in the UK. Egalitarian economic policies offered by old school Labour were continually rejected by the electorate so we've ended up with all the parties pretending to be a cuddlier version of Thatcherism. If Screaming Lord Sutch was still around I'd probably vote for him - after all he did promise to set all accountants in cement and use them as tunnel supports on the London Underground! Its funny , but virtually  the same things are said on the punk forums . Basically we're all the same really if you take out the music .

Lizzy wrote: Having the Conservatives back to power should come as something natural. In a two, two-and -a-half party system the alternation in power is one of a system's main features. As for the Nationalists, their increasing popularity should not come as a surprise especially in a time of economic crisis (happened throughout Europe), not to mention the immigrants issue. So, for an outsider like myself, the evolution of British politics should seem fairly normal.

Lizzy - the Welsh & Scottish Nationalists in the UK are left wing parties, both promote policies similar to those that Old Labour used to prior to Comrade Blair's election.

There has been an increase in support for United Kingdom Independence Party, who want us out of Europe, and the Fascist BNP in England, which, as you suggest, is somewhat normal in times of economic trouble.

However, I meant the nationalist parties of the Celtic nations, and I should have made that clearer.

Lizzy wrote: lazland wrote: Lizzy - the Welsh & Scottish Nationalists in the UK are left wing parties, both promote policies similar to those that Old Labour used to prior to Comrade Blair's election. There has been an increase in support for United Kingdom Independence Party, who want us out of Europe, and the Fascist BNP in England, which, as you suggest, is somewhat normal in times of economic trouble. However, I meant the nationalist parties of the Celtic nations, and I should have made that clearer. Yup, know about the Scottish and Welsh nationalists' left wing policies, not as much as I would like to though. But these parties have been on a growing trend long before the crisis, as they have a fairly long history compared to the BNP and UKIP. The economic crisis throughout Europe has mainly broght the right wingers to power, this including the right wing nationalists. Of course there are also the exceptions: first one that springs to mind is Croatia - they elected a Social Democrat president. And a bit off topic - looks like almost 70% of the Hungarian Parliament will consist of right and far-right parties.

Absolutely right - it is one thing which the progressive left, or extreme left for that matter, have never understood, and that is the fact that a lot of working class people move to the political right during severe times. Maybe they should read their 20th century history books again!

Green Shield Stamp wrote: I will vote for the Labour Party.   I think the Tories will probably win the election, but they will not have an overall majority.  For the kind of swing needed for an overall win, at this stage they would be expected to be getting 40% in the polls, but they are currently at 36%.   However, I don't think a hung parliament is necessarily a bad thing.  There are no massive ideological differences between the main parties anymore (unlike the extreme polarisation we saw in the 1970s and 80s). Consensus politics could be an effective change for the better.

I agree with this to some extent. There's a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth at the prospect of a hung parliament, but it always seems to come from "the party faithful" who naturally want their party to have a powerful majority. Right now a lot of people in this country honestly don't much care for any of 'em, so a little co-operation and bargaining between the main parties certainly wouldn't go amiss.

Where I disagree with you is on your suggestion (and do correct me if I'm misreading your comments) that a lack of ideological difference between the major parties is a good thing in itself. Personally I think this slavish retreat to the middle ground (and obsession with the middle classes) has been a significant contributing factor to the overall levels of political disengagement in this country. Anyone who holds strong convictions which lie either side of the moderate "consensus" view is made to feel like a fanatic.

Furthermore, middle-ground consensus results in tedious, petty squabbling over which taxes should be raised and by how many quarters of half a percent. Nobody's fighting for the big issues in this election; climate change, education, public transport, foreign policy, banking reform - those are the issues I want my politicians arguing about, not f**king paltry token bribes for married couples and the like. These are the kinds of issues which should be at the heart of politics in this country. [/rant]

Trouserpress wrote: I've been giving this way too much thought, recently. I might as well share. I popped onto http://www.politicalcompass.org the other day to see how I squared up to the three main parties... I'm way out in an opposite corner of the grid! It says I'm closest to the Greens, but they won't be getting my vote due to some their absurd anti-science policies and ill-thought out hippyisms (ban all zoos, etc.). So basically, if I want to vote on policy grounds I'm f**ked. That only really leaves tactical voting (aim: keep out Tories at all costs). I'm currently in a Labour constituency, but I have no idea how safe a seat it is. The last thing I want to do is toss a vote to the Lib Dems (who I agree with on a few things but nowhere near enough to actively support the party as a whole) if that's just going to result in a gain for the Tories in my area. Gah. What a headache our ridiculous, f**ked-up electoral system is.

I get shoved in over the Greens (a bit more of a left and libertarian than them however) and they got a fair few things I agree with, but as you say they are a bit anti-science (particularly their statement to "end" nuclear power) 
if I vote, it'd probably be the LibDems,

Trouserpress wrote: Hooray for FPTP! http://www.voterpower.org.uk

according to that I have the voting power of  1.220