Which is the best diet for long term use?

Animals, plants, sheesh, eliminate the middle men and just eat dirt. 

thellama73 wrote: I like how no one but Mike has voted in this poll yet.

No wonder. I bet that 90% of the European members don't have a clue of what he's talking about. If he started by naming the aliments (meat, vegetables, milk products...), maybe he would have more participation.
It sounds... "scientifically cold". 

High-Fat, High-Carb

thellama73 wrote: I like how no one but Mike has voted in this poll yet.

It was the same in that religious poll a few months ago - I don't mind. I even thought about it yesterday and it occurred to me that most people are not likely to have just read a dozen books on dieting and nutrition, so I can't really expect them to find these topics remotely interesting. But maybe some of you are overweight, and when I've only sparked the interest in low-carb in one of you, then I'm happy.

stonebeard wrote: /science But that doesn't even address my point. If you're happy with your eating and lifestyle, then it's right for you. There is no such thing as a correct diet.

Leaving science aside, I do think that there's such a thing as a correct diet. As you have said yourself, it's one that makes you happy - one that's right for you. Now, I'm obese. I'm not happy with that. I've come to the conclusion - for very good and scientifically sound reasons - that my diet (under which I developed obesity during the last ten years or so) caused it.

So if a change in diet can cure obesity (by removing the underlying cause), I think that it's extremely important for me to invest a little time in investigating all the diets that are out there. I'm not saying that we all should eat exactly the same (maybe you meant that by "correct diet"), but within low-carb there's a wide range of choices of what you could eat.

I think that there are three groups of people who should consider changing their diet:

• Obese people
• Undernourished (anorectic) people
• People who were obese and lost weight on high-carb diets (with strenuous exercise) and thus are in a constant state of semi-starvation

I think that while some of these people might be able to live with their condition - but most might simply not know that there would be a relatively simple and straightforward path out of that condition.

Mr ProgFreak wrote: I'm 1.80 meters tall, too - and last year my weight peaked at 118kg ... it's not as much, but comparable.  My target weight is 85kg ... and I've already lost 7kg in the last few weeks. You say that you cut back sugar and it worked for you. If you also eat lots of carbohydrates (bread, rice, pasta, sweet fruits etc), keep in mind that in the end even the complex carbohydrates are converted to simple sugar (glucose and fructose) before they are absorbed into the bloodstream - the only difference is the speed at which it happens, but if you gorge on pasta, it can have a similar effect as a candy bar. My advice would be to cut back further on the carbs and see how it goes ... it might save you the strenuous workout. One other interesting thing about workouts while you're eating fewer calories (but lots of carbs among them) is that the body starts to limit resources in other areas in order to accomodate the workout in combination with the low caloric intake. If my theory is correct - and many people smarter than me support it - then replacing more carbs with fat (like putting a bit more butter/cheese/meat on thinner slices of bread) can shift that equation ... your body will still burn fat reserves, but without the symptoms of starvation (exhaustion).

1. Breakfast: 1 bread with ham or trans fat free margarine and coffee or tee with sugar substitute (I feel ok, not starving).
2. Normal lunch made at home (lets say rice or spagetti, some meat that can be chicken, non grease pork, cow or fish), a dish of salad with lemmon and olive oil
3. Dinner: Exactly as breakfast plus one fruit
4. Since I started to run (6 months) the doictor ordered one 60 Gms bar of cocolate (Non sat fat) for energy.
5. Tea during the day with saccarine or sugar sunbstute

I cut almost completely junk food.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: Mr ProgFreak wrote: I'm 1.80 meters tall, too - and last year my weight peaked at 118kg ... it's not as much, but comparable.  My target weight is 85kg ... and I've already lost 7kg in the last few weeks. You say that you cut back sugar and it worked for you. If you also eat lots of carbohydrates (bread, rice, pasta, sweet fruits etc), keep in mind that in the end even the complex carbohydrates are converted to simple sugar (glucose and fructose) before they are absorbed into the bloodstream - the only difference is the speed at which it happens, but if you gorge on pasta, it can have a similar effect as a candy bar. My advice would be to cut back further on the carbs and see how it goes ... it might save you the strenuous workout. One other interesting thing about workouts while you're eating fewer calories (but lots of carbs among them) is that the body starts to limit resources in other areas in order to accomodate the workout in combination with the low caloric intake. If my theory is correct - and many people smarter than me support it - then replacing more carbs with fat (like putting a bit more butter/cheese/meat on thinner slices of bread) can shift that equation ... your body will still burn fat reserves, but without the symptoms of starvation (exhaustion).   Thanks for the advice Mike, but I have a problem:   I have high blood preasure and tendency to go high on cholesterol,some months ago I had 230 (total)which wouldn't be so bad, but my good cholesterol was terribly llow (37).   So I started cutting sat fats, started eating avocado three times a week and taking a lot of olive oil, but no fat.   In the beach (once a week) I take one or two beers,   Of course I make 3 Kms jogging.   Iván   My normal diet is:not so hard Breakfast: 1 bread with ham or trans fat free margarine and coffee or tee with sugar substitute (I feel ok, not starving). Normal lunch made at home (lets say rice or spagetti, some meat that can be chicken, non grease pork, cow or fish), a dish of salad with lemmon and olive oil Dinner: Exactly as breakfast plus one fruit Since I started to run (6 months) the doictor ordered one 60 Gms bar of cocolate (Non sat fat) for energy. Tea during the day with saccarine or sugar sunbstute I cut almost completely junk food. It's working, my cholesterol is around 200 but even better, my HDL has rised 20 points...My glucose is excellent,. 108, two hours after eating, and 79 before breakfast   Iván

Thanks for the insights!

My comment would be: Cut the carbs still further and lose your fear of saturated fat - or cholesterol. The key to improve your fat metabolism is not to eat less fat, but to reduce carbohydrates. Looking at your diet, I would say that the chocolate is very bad - it doesn't contain any protein, and is half fat, half sugar. I've now been living on a carb free diet for over a week, and I'll be going to the gym later to do heavy weight lifting - I can tell you from first hand experience that you don't need sugar in order to give you energy for strenuous exercise.

I'm currently reading about the Protein Power diet ... it essentially replaces carbs with protein, and also increases fat a little because most foods that are high in protein also contain fat to some degree. But I agree with the logic 100%. Especially in the induction phase of low carb diet your body needs much protein, because for a while it needs to convert protein into glucose to power the brain and other organs which cannot burn fat directly. But after a few weeks (it takes longer the older you are) the brain can adjust to burn fats by way of ketones which are created from fat by the liver. This is also why you usually don't fall into a coma when you don't eat anything for a few days ... the Eskimos used to do that for the better part of the year (don't eat carbs) and they're fine, and not overweight, and neither obese nor diabetic, even with a diet that's more than 70% fat.

I know it's not likely that you'll do as I do - but for example, you could replace the chocolate with peanuts, or replace the fruit after dinner with cheese. This will all lower carbs, and raise protein and fat, and I'm very sure that your body will thank you for it.

Blacksword wrote: I've come to this alittle late, so apologies if this has already been said. I've known many people who have dieted over the years, and most all have one thing in common. They are all over weight. Any diet that prohibits any one patricular type of food, or any diet that leaves you feeling hungry and depressed is going to fail. Jim suggests you eat what you like, just less of it, and I'm inclined to agree with this. A bit of what you fancy keeps you happy. A good balance of fats, carns and proteins is good for overall health, especially when in conjunction with an exercise program.

I've tried just eating less, combined with exercise ... trust me, it did not work. The general response by the "just eat less" fraction is usually "well, you must have had low willpower".

I maintain: Some foods make you more fat than others, and it's not fat. The last 50 years prove that, for the US but also for other Western countries. We reduced fat, but we got fatter. And guess what: We're eating more carbs.

Blacksword wrote: Establishing a good weight loss routine is hard. I do appreciate that, but it takes focus and commitment, and starving yourself is not the answer. Neither is cutting out carbs altogether. The 'Atkins' diet has repeatedly proved itself to be bad for general health, and ultimately unsuccessful, in keeping weight off, in the longer term.

Do you have any evidence for the claim that low-carb is bad for general health, and unsuccessful? As far as keeping weight off in the longer term is concerned, I'm sure that anyone who is overweight knows that conventional diets are all unsuccessful. And even if you have the "willpower", you will constantly feel hungry.

^ it also depends on many factors. Some people have peculiar metabolisms, for example I know someone who can eat all the sugar he wants, but he's always lean. Such freak occurrences aside, in your case I would probably be interested in what you really eat (besides fruits), how old you are, if you are obese or were obese when you changed the diet etc..

BTW:  I do think that the human body works nearly the same for all of us (except the noted freak occurrences) as far as the metabolism of the basic nutrients are concerned. However, some factors can slightly alter the odds. For example, caffeine seems to raise insulin in some people. I've always been a fan of diet coke and I drink lots of coffee, so for all I know that might have contributed to my problem, while it might have had no effect on some other people.

^ I've a few people who tried Atkins. In all cases they lost weight too quickly, resulting in saggy wrinkled skin and a bony, withered appearance. It certainly doesn't look healthy.