Just how religious are you?

Dean wrote: No 8: I'm totally rational and will accept theoretical and well as empirical evidence.

I changed "empirical" to "scientific" ... I hope that pleases everyone.

ANOTHER religious poll by Mike!?!?
GOD DAMN IT!



But seriously, again man?

Anyway, I may be wrong...but Im pretty sure I've always been respectful of these discussions. Sure I use the terms "religious, deist, atheist" all that junk but makes it easier. I pride myself on being open minded and fair, but hey I have no idea how I am in reality.

I'd say I fall under not religious but embrace spirituality and mysticism.
To be fair I also fall under "in paper but dont believe" since I am technically still on the books as a catholic but havnt gone in 8 years, and dont believe in in at all.

I dont know, really the only belief I am 100% sure of without a question of a doubt is, I hate people.

How do I answer this? I am not religious, I don't believe in any gods or mystycism. However, most of my beliefs about life, the universe and everything are based on quantum theory, which although in a technical sense is a science, it is at odds with your final option on the poll. This is because of the part about ...*only* scientific evidence accounts. 

Therefore, I would rather choose another question - I practically never had chance to be believer (and OK, don't regret it, exactly as anyone who was taught opposite way in childhood - to believe), so for me it's not just scientific evidence.

For me it's like (G)god, huh ? What are you talking about. 

The Pessimist wrote: I believe life is too short to be worrying about these things. Go out there, do good and have a great f**king time while you're doing it, helping the human race along the best you can. People can spend years thinking about this kind of thing, but to me it's just a waste of valuable time, because nobody actually cares. No decent person would think any less of you whether you are Atheist, Theist or believe that humanity was born from custard. Therefore, the only person that REALLY gives a toss about what you believe in is you, and to me, that causes way too much mental stress. Let's all just drink, have sex, laugh and help the needy like we've always done *raises pint glass*. I'd rather die happy and ignorant than die worrying if there is a heaven or not.

Seriously, this man speaks the truth. I don't think I could spend hours pondering that sort of things when I have guitars to be played, friends to hang out with, pubs to go to, films to watch, music to listen to, music to write and history to read about.

JJLehto wrote: ANOTHER religious poll by Mike!?!? GOD DAMN IT! But seriously, again man? Anyway, I may be wrong...but Im pretty sure I've always been respectful of these discussions. Sure I use the terms "religious, deist, atheist" all that junk but makes it easier. I pride myself on being open minded and fair, but hey I have no idea how I am in reality.

You may find the Sam Harris presentation interesting ... he makes some interesting claims against the word "Atheism".

JJLehto wrote: I'd say I fall under not religious but embrace spirituality and mysticism. To be fair I also fall under "in paper but dont believe" since I am technically still on the books as a catholic but havnt gone in 8 years, and dont believe in in at all. I dont know, really the only belief I am 100% sure of without a question of a doubt is, I hate people.

Well, I guess you can be a misanthrope with any of these options.

Mr ProgFreak wrote: clarke2001 wrote: I realized that asking someone 'is there god or not', 'do you believe in divinity or not' is a WRONG question. It's about semantics. You posted two question ... which one do you think is wrong, and what would be the right question in your opinion?

None, or both. It depends on a context. See, everything that surrounds us, the universe is a picture, a silhouette. If you believe in god, you'll see vase. If you don't you'll see two faces. In both cases, it's perception - the picture is exactly the same.

Of course, if one does believe in explicit depiction of God - and old man with a beard, an elephant face with eight hands - that's another story. I don't (but I do feel some envy for those with dedication in their life, faith-wise).

I'm talking about people who believe into universe as is with all the galaxies etc., but believe in divine intervention vs. people who believe in the universe, Big Bang etc. from purely scientific approach, without god. It's the same thing.

Everything surrounding us is so ordinary.
Everything surrounding us is a miracle.

Both true.


Let's say a person (an interviewer) asks me is there god or not.

Let's say that person ultimately,blindly believes my statement: among all philosophers, prophets, messiahs and scientists in history, my answer is ultimate, and correct.

And I give him/her the answer.

The person is trembling with excitement: finally we know the truth!! And he/she asks me a lot of other questions: who, why, where, how?!?!?!?

I explain.

The person's reaction? Purification, epiphany, excitement, wisdom? No. The face goes down: 'Oh. I see...so that's it. well, I'm not any smarter. Things around me are the same. My perception is the same".

Just be, man. It doesn't matter. I thought a lot about the subject, developed my own theories (which are right), even stripped down the very existence to the simple mathematical formula. Now I know. And I'm not any smarter.

clarke2001 wrote: Mr ProgFreak wrote: clarke2001 wrote: I realized that asking someone 'is there god or not', 'do you believe in divinity or not' is a WRONG question. It's about semantics. You posted two question ... which one do you think is wrong, and what would be the right question in your opinion? None, or both. It depends on a context. See, everything that surrounds us, the universe is a picture, a silhouette. If you believe in god, you'll see vase. If you don't you'll see two faces. In both cases, it's perception - the picture is exactly the same. Of course, if one does believe in explicit depiction of God - and old man with a beard, an elephant face with eight hands - that's another story. I don't (but I do feel some envy for those with dedication in their life, faith-wise). I'm talking about people who believe into universe as is with all the galaxies etc., but believe in divine intervention vs. people who believe in the universe, Big Bang etc. from purely scientific approach, without god. It's the same thing. Everything surrounding us is so ordinary. Everything surrounding us is a miracle. Both true. Let's say a person (an interviewer) asks me is there god or not. Let's say that person ultimately,blindly believes my statement: among all philosophers, prophets, messiahs and scientists in history, my answer is ultimate, and correct. And I give him/her the answer. The person is trembling with excitement: finally we know the truth!! And he/she asks me a lot of other questions: who, why, where, how?!?!?!? I explain. The person's reaction? Purification, epiphany, excitement, wisdom? No. The face goes down: 'Oh. I see...so that's it. well, I'm not any smarter. Things around me are the same. My perception is the same". Just be, man. It doesn't matter. I thought a lot about the subject, developed my own theories (which are right), even stripped down the very existence to the simple mathematical formula. Now I know. And I'm not any smarter.

I see. Well, I'm a naive realist on the basis of our scientific knowledge. If I see a table in my room then I have faith in that there is actually a table there, and that it doesn't only exist in my imagination ... I can touch it, I can sit at it and eat my meal, for all my intents and purposes it is there, and it is a table.

Another way of putting it is that the laws of physics make sense to me, as they relate to everything that I can see. Once you go to the very small (sub-atomic) and very large (cosmic) the laws get strange and counter-intuitive, but I trust the scientific methods of making testable assumptions.

As far as your questions are concerned:

"is there god or not": I don't think that this question can be answered.
"do you believe in divinity or not": Like you said, it depends on the semantics of the word "divinity". I believe in reason and science, and if you define divinity as the world and its laws, then you could say I believe in it. But this type of divinity is a far cry from the one of the (Mono)theistic religions.

What kind of religious views do I have?

I'm not a rationalist, I'm a dialectical materialist, read: militant atheist. Religion needs to be overthrown in the minds of men.

That option wasn't on the poll, but you had violent religious fundamentalist

Aww Mike don't go getting all tolerant on us.  It should sound very familiar to you. You spent 10 pages or so in one of these threads advocating the exact same thing.