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Topic ClosedWho plays music or understands theory?
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Slartibartfast View Drop Down
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2009 at 13:22
Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:

This is true. It works out in most cases, especially if you have a good ear. It doesn't work if you study classical guitar. Then you have to work the pieces out that have been transcribed for guitar. If you wanted to work something out by Paganini which might be played by Steve Vai on electric guitar, you might have to work a percentage with tab or read the notes. If you have a fully developed natural ear, you can just pick the notes up right from the cd.

Interesting, I think I have developed a natural ear many years ago just from all the music I'd listened to.  I still can't play guitar chords for sh*t. LOL  Fairly good at arpeggios though.  I like to play guitar and synthesizer.  I almost always do improv with the synth, but I've probably played acoustic guitar mostly over the years just because you don't have to crank up an amp and it's easy to pick up and put down.  What can I say?  I'm just a dabbler, but I can get pretty good when I'm in the mood. 

Unfortunately my house was flooded in September and my amp, sampler, and guitar effects box were ruined.  My synth and electric guitar survived though, so I'm not complaining.  (I carried out the acoustic through the flood waters.)  Any suggestions for a good multi-purpose amp would be appreciated.  I never used the sequencer much so am thinking about replacing it with a sequencer as I only play with myself. Tongue


Edited by Slartibartfast - December 04 2009 at 13:48
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Points: 17487 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2009 at 13:26
Originally posted by cyclysm748 cyclysm748 wrote:

I am just curious if most readers on here play music themselves, or know much music theory and what is going on in the music.  I just get the feeling that many people on here know a lot about theory and music. I'm not saying it's better to know these things, as you don't need to play or understand theory to love music, though it certainly helped me enjoy music more. I myself am studying music in college. Just curious.
 
I play a little, not enough to write home to mom about or to impress my friends.
 
When it comes to theory, I am not a music major but I am an art major ... so to speak ... and have a BFA ...
 
Personally I have no beef with music theory, except one detail ... ALL theory is designed/define after the fact, and it is amazing, that some folks will try to define music --- aka progressive -- as something that "should" have this and that ... to be "progressive" ... and that is actually a bad thing, and is intimidating to the most important thing about ALL music that has been around forever ... people's desire and intuition for wanting to do something with an instrument ... and basically being told ... that it is'nt good, and not "worthy" ... because it is compared to a theoretical something or other ... that is more representative of what once "WAS" ... than it is representative of what "IS" ....
 
Theory makes sense a lot of times ... it helps you see the flow and the progress and process of music over thousands of years ... but to think that the only way that you can "understand?know" music is by knowing theory, is to inadvertantly dis-respecting all the creative forces and minds that have ever been ... in essence they were all a "reaction" to the known "rules" ...
 
Music history is not "kind" to creativity ... in general ... it is almost the same here ... it's never good enough because ... it doesn't have this or that ... I always send people to go see "Amadeus" so you can see the same thing at a different time ... when the line ... "too many notes ... " is said about Mozart's new piece ... it's still the same today ... exactly the same ... nothing has changed.
 
It will ALWAYS be about the music itself ... never the theory ...
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Points: 3834 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2009 at 19:12
Originally posted by Negoba Negoba wrote:

Pessimist posted videos of his piano playing once...holy cow.
 
Steve Vai and Satriani know so much theory it's ridiculous. I don't think it hurt them.


Haha, I'm gonna take that as a compliment Negoba and thank you as well

Yeah, if anything I think it makes them both a cut above the rest. Add Ron Jarzombek to that list (he's very hot on theory as well) and you've pretty much got the technically best guitarists in the world in my opoinion.
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Points: 3126 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2009 at 21:20
[QUOTE=Slartibartfast] .  I still can't play guitar chords for sh*t. LOL  Fairly good at arpeggios though.  I like to play guitar and synthesizer.  I almost always do improv with the synth, but I've probably played acoustic guitar mostly  
 
If you ever decide to expand on chord knowledge, don't forget to try mountain chords. This is an old term used by Jon Field and Tony Duhig from Jade Warrior. Most of them are 5 to 7 fret stretches with fingers placed on the E6th, A string, and D string and sometimes the G string. The idea is to create an atmospheric sound by opening your left hand up and playing the G,B,and E1st strings open. Sometimes just the B and E1st. On acoustic guitar it creates a very tranquill climate. I'm not sure if this style of chord work originated in the Asian mountains. Perhaps it did. It is a difficult feat to identify certain techniques that derive from Asian music or just Ancient music in general. All I know is if you sit on a mountain or in an open meadow with an acoustic and proceed to play these kinds of open chords, everything falls into place. Some of the same chord voicings are used in open tunings by Michael Hedges and Nick Drake. 
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Slartibartfast View Drop Down
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2009 at 21:49
Thanks for the tip, I'll give it a try.  I can do the C chord OK, its the one I do to check if it's in tune.

Edited by Slartibartfast - December 04 2009 at 13:47
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Easy Money View Drop Down
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Points: 10616 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2009 at 22:13
Originally posted by cyclysm748 cyclysm748 wrote:

I am just curious if most readers on here play music themselves, or know much music theory and what is going on in the music.  I just get the feeling that many people on here know a lot about theory and music. I'm not saying it's better to know these things, as you don't need to play or understand theory to love music, though it certainly helped me enjoy music more. I myself am studying music in college. Just curious.


I don't know if you are still checking your thread or not, but if you were still looking for people who studied theory, I have a master's degree, but learning how to play jazz really makes it all practical and more memorable.
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Points: 116 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2009 at 23:19
Easy Money-Heck yes I am still checking this thread. Masters degree, wow. Yeah, theory is very important in jazz, though I'm not the greatest improviser at this point. What instrument do you play?
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Points: 7606 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2009 at 03:47
I've been playing keyboard for fifteen years and managed to learn more about how music works than how to really play it very well ;p my favourite instrument right now is the nintendo entertainment system, ala this song I wrote. composed on keyboard and then reimagined for something I like the sound of better.
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Easy Money View Drop Down
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Points: 10616 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2009 at 08:19
Originally posted by cyclysm748 cyclysm748 wrote:

Easy Money-Heck yes I am still checking this thread. Masters degree, wow. Yeah, theory is very important in jazz, though I'm not the greatest improviser at this point. What instrument do you play?


I play kybds, I guess you play guitar. Where are you going to school?
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Points: 102 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2009 at 08:41
Studied Classical Piano, DEC in Music, and played keys in a progressive metal band.  Don't play as much any more, but still have my little studio and toy around.

I think most prog fans are musicians.  Let's face it, you just appreciate it more than if you are a casual music fan.

too bad most people who run the music business have never touch an instrument in their lives!  
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Points: 1009 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2009 at 08:47
I have a Master's in Miusic Composition & Theory, A Master's in Music History and my doctorate in Interdisciplinary Arts with a focus in Music Aesthetics and Philosophy so, yeah, I've had a course or two (and taught a course or two) in theory.

I'll echo Easy Money's question, where are you studying?  If you're at Kearney there are some folks you can say hello to for me.  Smile
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Points: 2447 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2009 at 09:41
I've played guitar and sung for 20 years.  Primarily by ear, though I did have guitar lessons for the first two years I played.  But that was mostly learning songs, chords, scales, and some improv.  I also took piano lessons for a semester in college, where I learned basic sight reading, but I've pretty much forgotten all that now Embarrassed 

I do feel that more theory would have helped me, as I feel that much of my music lacks melodic development.  Though I can impress my friends with my fast fretting and crazy chord structures.  I do feel somewhat limited by my lack of musical knowledge, but I also feel like I've created some interesting music partly due to this lack of knowledge (i.e., not knowing the "rules").

I assume I must have a fairly good ear, as I usually have little trouble figuring out how to play things by listening to them a few times and working it out.  This isn't the case with a Satriani solo though, however Gilmore and Hackett I've always been able to work out.  Mostly though, I prefer to come up with my own stuff and I generally improvise solos.  When recording, I will often do several takes, and kind of "learn" the solo that I think works best and then use that as the final version.
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2009 at 10:25
Originally posted by infandous infandous wrote:

I've played guitar and sung for 20 years.  Primarily by ear

Wow, you must have some heavy calluses on your ear. Tongue


Edited by Slartibartfast - December 04 2009 at 13:48
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Points: 31299 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2009 at 10:33
Im a self-taught drummer, very good at learning by listening although I never studied much theory.
 
Main inluences are Phil Collins, Bill Bruford, Daniel Denis, Christian Vander, Mark Zonder and Billy Cobham! Thumbs Up
 
 
RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on!
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Points: 18292 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2009 at 13:01
Originally posted by Bj-1 Bj-1 wrote:

Im a self-taught drummer, very good at learning by listening although I never studied much theory.
 
Main inluences are Phil Collins, Bill Bruford, Daniel Denis, Christian Vander, Mark Zonder and Billy Cobham! Thumbs Up
 
 


Wouldn't it be fun if we jammed sometime? Tongue
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Points: 2447 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2009 at 13:09
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Originally posted by infandous infandous wrote:

I've played guitar and sung for 20 years.  Primarily by ear

Wow, you must have some heavy calluses on your ear. Tongue


Well, I figured if Hendrix could use his tongue, why couldn't I use my ear?  LOL











Edited by infandous - December 04 2009 at 13:10
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Slartibartfast View Drop Down
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2009 at 14:18
If anyone's interested, here's my keyboard:

Kawai • K1

Kawai K1 Image

The K1 is one of Kawai's most economic digital synthesizers in the K-series. The K1 has 256 digital samples of waveforms, 50 of which are from acoustic instruments. You combine up to four wave shapes to create very new and unique sounds. The K1 is capable of very good acoustic recreation, excellent unique synth sounds or at times, completely noisy walls of complex sound.

Here's my first one: info from the link below

Korg • Poly-61

Korg Poly-61 Image

The Korg Poly-61 was released in 1982 as the successor to the Polysix. It was somewhat of a step up from the Polysix, as it has 2 DCOs for better reliability. It also retained the arpeggiator of the Polysix. It has a very dirty sharp sound much like the Yamaha DX7. This is good if you are into the lo-fi sound of electronica. The Poly-61 can provide cool gritty basses or trippy analog sounds and fx.

Also added is the familiar Korg joystick, which can be used to modulate the VCO or the VCF. However, its filter only has 7 steps of resonance and is not as fat as the Polysix's filter. It also uses the same method of programming the Poly-800 and Yamaha DX-7 use, so it's not a very useful synth for real-time-tweaking junkies. The first Poly-61s didn't have MIDI, but the Poly-61M released in 1984 corrects this. Overall, the Poly-61 is still a decent synth, and it can be acquired for practically nothing! It has been used by FM Static and The Faint.

http://www.vintagesynth.com



Edited by Slartibartfast - December 04 2009 at 14:23
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Points: 25210 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 05 2009 at 01:29
I play guitar and bass guitar.
I know the modes of the major scale pretty much inside out and also know the chord scale relationships as a result of studying that stuff.
I know a bit about counterpoint, chord/arpeggio substitution and a few other concepts.

Originally posted by Negoba Negoba wrote:

I know a moderate amount of theory. It's very helpful for me because my natural ear is average at best. I've worked on that aspect of my musicianship too, but theory saves my rear in lots of situations. I think knowing the basics of how I ii iii IV V iv iivo I and circle of fifths and basic stuff like that probably should be under the belt of anyone who wants to be a serious musician. There's a lot more out there which I find useful, but not everyone will want to spend their time on.


I can definitely agree with this.
I can work out stuff like the outro instrumental section of White Walls or some Buckethead guitar solos by ear, and to many people that's considered impressive (but I don't particularly think so haha),  and I did put in a fair bit of work to get to that level with my ear but I put on something like Allan Holdsworth or say, Shawn Lane's really jazz fusion-y moments and that sh*t just goes way above my head, I just can't hear what's going on. I can listen to it and appreciate the beauty in it, but is it a lydian flat 7 scale, or an altered scale going on kinda thing? I really just don't have a clue.
I also don't really understand that kind of music theory a lot of jazzers and fusioners know either, but then again I have no plans to venture outside rock and metal anyway haha


Edited by Petrovsk Mizinski - December 05 2009 at 01:35
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Points: 362 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 05 2009 at 10:29
I play music and am involved in a number of projects in my spare time; I know a bit of theory
This user has left the PA fora, but will occasionally post reviews so as to support artists.
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Points: 44 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 05 2009 at 10:38
I've been playing guitar for almost 17 years and I also dabble with other instruments (for purposes of recording).  I was much more into theory in my late teens and early twenties, but I do know a moderate amount.
Take a few minutes and listen to this!
http://www.myspace.com/jlangmusic
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