What genre is prog's foe ?

ExittheLemming wrote: Toaster Mantis wrote: Punk and metal probably have much more of it since I don't remember progressive rock having anywhere as much in the way of "scene politics". As I don't frequent Metal or Punk sites, you may be correct but ain't this principally because Prog does not have an easily identifiable uniform, look or attitude to conform to ?

Yeah, progressive rock just has "scenes", metal and punk have well-defined subcultural identities associated with those scenes, but in both cases the scenes still come before the fashion and attitude of which they're an outgrowth. I've also noticed that progressive rock fans welcome mainstream acceptance whereas in metal, punk and probably also goth rock circles there's a tendency to see mainstream crossover success as pearls before swine.


Edited by Toaster Mantis - November 22 2009 at 02:58

Toaster Mantis wrote: ExittheLemming wrote: Toaster Mantis wrote: Punk and metal probably have much more of it since I don't remember progressive rock having anywhere as much in the way of "scene politics". As I don't frequent Metal or Punk sites, you may be correct but ain't this principally because Prog does not have an easily identifiable uniform, look or attitude to conform to ? Yeah, progressive rock just has "scenes", metal and punk have well-defined subcultural identities associated with those scenes, but in both cases the scenes still come before the fashion and attitude of which they're an outgrowth. I've also noticed that progressive rock fans welcome mainstream acceptance whereas in metal, punk and probably also goth rock circles there's a tendency to see mainstream crossover success as pearls before swine.

Interesting summary certainly. I don't think you really believe that mainstream success for either a punk or prog band would be viewed by either 'scene' as pearls before swine. Even a casual glance through the Collins Genesis, Asia or Buggles Yes threads over the years would be sufficient to convince anyone that what flows unopposed into the mainstream is viewed with contempt by the hard-liners as a very diluted or polluted version of the genre ? (I'm not defending the anti-populist brigade here BTW)
Do you really mean those bands that don't pander to being radio-friendly but are still mainstream successful ? (erm...I can't think of any proggers that fit the bill, apart from say Floyd ?)

ExittheLemming wrote: I don't think you really believe that mainstream success for either a punk or prog band would be viewed by either 'scene' as pearls before swine. Even a casual glance through the Collins Genesis, Asia or Buggles Yes threads over the years would be sufficient to convince anyone that what flows unopposed into the mainstream is viewed with contempt by the hard-liners as a very diluted or polluted version of the genre ? (I'm not defending the anti-populist brigade here BTW) Do you really mean those bands that don't pander to being radio-friendly but are still mainstream successful ?

Not for progressive rock at least, however in metal there's quite a bit of distrust towards not only bands that deliberately go for mainstream crossover success but towards when more "authentic" bands get popular outside the metal subculture. The antipathy isn't towards the artists but fans in question who don't have enough loyalty/familiarity with the subculture and are hence perceived at not appreciating metal for the right reasons. This thread on a metal forum would be a very good example of what I'm talking about.

I am very certain there's similar concerns in the punk subculture even though I don't have first-hand experience of it like I have with metal. As for my opinion, on one hand I can definitely understand where such concerns are coming from but on the other hand I also get the impression that even within subcultures it's usually very few of their actual members who actually live up to whatever high-falutin' ideals the movements in question have. It's pretty much an universal constant, has always been so and applies to all of 'em from Goths to neo-beatniks. Alternately depressing or hilarious that it's still so 41 years after Frank Zappa commenced castigating the hippies for his...

(hell, it goes beyond subcultures to much looser-defined "fan communities", see a certain Prog Blog of mine)


Edited by Toaster Mantis - November 23 2009 at 15:04

This is an interesting conversation, I was thinking of various subcultures I was familiar with over the years and bands that recieved scorn from those subcultures:

late 80s California hardcore - Green Day

mid-70s funk - KC and the Sunshine Band

late 80s hip-hop - Vanilla Ice, MC Hammer

mid 70s prog - Kansas, ELO. Rush, Alan Parsons, even Pink Floyd for some

mid 90s electronic - Moby

early 80s west coast punk - X (first west coast punk band to sign to a major label, a major sin)

60s folk - Dylan

late 60s jazz - Miles

late 60s blues/rock - Led Zep, Grand Funk Railroad

Edited by Easy Money - November 22 2009 at 14:41

Never thought music was a competition. There is no foe in any musical genre.

Never knew tear-jerkers was a musical genre.

Edited by Grumpyprogfan - March 17 2022 at 09:45

Psychedelic Paul wrote: I chose Punk even before I saw the options. Punk Rock lasted all of two years but Prog Rock lives on forever.

Punk lasted more than two years and still lives on. Ever heard of Green Day?

EDM?

Rap. It's more personal dislike than anything what makes me vote this way, I confess. And proggers can be also prone to tears every once in a while.