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Topic ClosedRandom useless poll: how many albums have DT made?
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Poll Question: Is "Change of Seasons" an album?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
7 [28.00%]
2 [8.00%]
4 [16.00%]
4 [16.00%]
8 [32.00%]
This topic is closed, no new votes accepted

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mrcozdude View Drop Down
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Points: 2078 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2009 at 10:40
Originally posted by The Pessimist The Pessimist wrote:

Originally posted by floydispink floydispink wrote:

Who are DT?


Dog Turd.



You'll be glad to know that's my last attempt of DT joke.

I voted the fourth option.



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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2009 at 11:35
Raise your hand if you want Paganinio to be issued a poll-creating restraining order...
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Dean View Drop Down
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2009 at 11:43
seventeenth row down, 56th from the right.... is his hand up or down?
 
What?
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2009 at 11:48
LOL unanimous support...
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Points: 6802 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2009 at 11:51
I guess it's a democratic win... hail to... eehh... what's his name...???
Change the program inside... Stay in silence is a crime.
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Points: 3834 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2009 at 12:29
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

seventeenth row down, 56th from the right.... is his hand up or down?
 
 
I don't know, but one of them is called Wally.
"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."

Arnold Schoenberg
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Points: 36909 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2009 at 13:18
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

An EP is an album.

I don't know how you worked that one out. It clearly isn't.

Thats why they had LP's and EP's...to distringuish them. Surely the word LP was exchaged for the word album while Vinyl was still the format? I'll answer...yes it was.


The EP is a short album but it's an album nonetheless. The opposite of the album is the single, not the EP. Here's Wikipedia:

According to the rules of the UK Charts, a recording counts as an "album" if either it has more than four tracks or lasts more than 25 minutes.[3] Sometimes shorter albums are referred to as EPs, an abbreviation of extended play, "extended" meaning longer than a single but shorter than an LP. The term "mini-album" may also be used.

DT don't count it as an album, so its up to them.


I don't agree with them, I can't see it as an EP. It's true though that in time the EP gained a cultural "meaning" (i.e. it should material not to become the subject of a proper "long play" album). 80 minutes of "secondary" material is still an album, even if it's of the "compilation" kind.
Either way it does not qualify as a Studio Album even by our standards (hence my *sigh*). As Ian says DT can call it whatever they like.
 
Traditionally an EP was a 7" vinyl played at 33rpm or a 7" vinyl at 45rpm with compressed dynamic range to achieve the "Extended" part of the Extended Play name. in the mid 70s when 12" vinyl 45s were popular the BRMB decided that the tracks had to be different songs to qualify as a single for chart purposes (ie not just remixes of the one song), the same went for EPs so singles with more than two tracks became either EPs or extended Singles or maxi Singles.
 
There is no modern equivalent and the term is somewhat outmoded, but it underwent a minor revival in the 90s with indie bands as they were cheaper to record than a whole album, but offered more than just a single - the term mini-album or MCD appears around that time too with EPs like Mayhem's Wolf's Lair Abyss being classed by the record company as an MCD when it was originally released.


I don't know if DT considers it an album or a non-album, so I'll take your word for it, Ian.  But even if they don't consider it to be an album doesn't mean they hold the ultimate truth, or the only possible truth (semantics). They can call a cat a dog if they want to.  I didn't work it out, I've, for as long as I remember, considered EPs, LPs, compilation and live albums (duh) to be albums, and perhaps I should have said that, according to the terminology I'm familiar with, it is a kind of album. What I can't wrap my brain around is why "it clearly isn't" and would appreciate an explanation of why you think it is so obvious.
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Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2009 at 13:32
EP's have never been called albums to my knowledge.
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Points: 66555 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2009 at 13:36
I never quite got the concept of extended play (EP) versus Long Play (LP).  I assume that EP means extended as opposed to a single or a 45?  Otherwise, couldn't extended mean long.  i.e. an extended bridge can be long. 
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2009 at 13:50
^ you could try reading my explanation in Ian, Greg and Alex's quote pyramid Wink
 
but to add further - everything is referenced back to the first commercially available recorded discs - the 78
 
These 10" disc made of a shellac compound held 3 minutes of music on each side and spun around at 78 revolutions per minute. A collection of these were housed in a folder like a photograph album - hence the name "album" for a collection of recordings. The size of an Album depended upon how many 78 records were sold in the set.
 
Tecnical developments and the invention of vinyl created the microgroove that allowed for more music to be stored on the same size disc, also to achieve the same level of fidelity the rotational speed could be reduced. Therefore what could be recorded onto a 10" disc could now be recorded onto a 7" one going at 45 rpm. This also meant that an album could now be recorded onto a single disc - and the 12" LP was created ... the Long Play coming from the fact that it was a larger disc and played at an even slower speed. These 12 disc were limited to about 23 minutes of music per side - hence setting the length of an album at 45 minutes. (later developments, such as limiting the volume of the audio signal stretched this to about 30 minutes a side, but at a loss in quality)
 
However, some bright spark realised that a 7" disc could also contain more than the traditional 3 minutes of music, so the EP was born.
 
.


Edited by Dean - November 13 2009 at 13:53
What?
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Points: 66555 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2009 at 13:55
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

^ you could try reading my explanation in Ian, Greg and Alex's quote pyramid Wink
 
but to add further - everything is referenced back to the first commercially available recorded discs - the 78
 
These 10" disc made of a shellac compound held 3 minutes of music on each side and spun around at 78 revolutions per minute. A collection of these were housed in a folder like a photograph album - hence the name "album" for a collection of recordings. The size of an Album depended upon how many 78 records were sold in the set.
 
Tecnical developments and the invention of vinyl created the microgroove that allowed for more music to be stored on the same size disc, also to achieve the same level of fidelity the rotational speed could be reduced. Therefore what could be recorded onto a 10" disc could now be recorded onto a 7" one going at 45 rpm. This also meant that an album could now be recorded onto a single disc - and the 12" LP was created ... the Long Play coming from the fact that it was a larger disc and played at an even slower speed. These 12 disc were limited to about 23 minutes of music per side - hence setting the length of an album at 45 minutes. (later developments, such as limiting the volume of the audio signal stretched this to about 30 minutes a side, but at a loss in quality)
 
However, some bright spark realised that a 7" disc could also contain more than the traditional 3 minutes of music, so the EP was born.
 
.
Ugh, I missed your initial post.  Sorry. 
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2009 at 14:20
I'm thinking they made all the ones that they did and what it is, too...
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Points: 19643 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2009 at 14:27
Only one:

Awake
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Points: 6802 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2009 at 15:19
Originally posted by progkidjoel progkidjoel wrote:

Only one:

Awake
 
What do you mean with that...??? Confused
Change the program inside... Stay in silence is a crime.
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Points: 16111 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2009 at 15:58
Black Clouds shouldn't count on the count of it's so terrible.
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Points: 6802 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2009 at 16:04
Originally posted by King By-Tor King By-Tor wrote:

Black Clouds shouldn't count on the count of it's so terrible.
 
The album is just fine... many many new prog fans have taking the prog habbits cause of that album... 4 stars album for me... maybe not their best, but surely a good one...
Change the program inside... Stay in silence is a crime.
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Points: 31169 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2009 at 16:06
Originally posted by King By-Tor King By-Tor wrote:

Black Clouds shouldn't count on the count of it's so terrible.


this
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Points: 36909 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2009 at 16:25
Very interesting Dean.  I think I had heard about the relation to photograph albums.  I've looked up my fairly trusty, yet woefully incomplete, OED and it refers to a music album as a long-playing gramophone record or a compact disc or tape having several pieces of music.  Under the second definition, I believe that Change of Seasons could count as an album as I think it does have several pieces of music.  Anyway, thanks Ian and Dean -- learn something new every day.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2009 at 17:33
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Very interesting Dean.  I think I had heard about the relation to photograph albums.  I've looked up my fairly trusty, yet woefully incomplete, OED and it refers to a music album as a long-playing gramophone record or a compact disc or tape having several pieces of music.  Under the second definition, I believe that Change of Seasons could count as an album as I think it does have several pieces of music.  Anyway, thanks Ian and Dean -- learn something new every day.
The OED isn't a history book or an encyclopedia.Wink
 
As you say, it's semantics now since all are recorded onto the same media - you cannot tell just by looking at the 120mm disc of aluminium coated polycarbonate what the format it is and while people try and set some definitions, it's really down to what the artist or record company decides to market it as is the only valid definition for any particular release... which when they stop making hard-copy versions will all be academic anyway.
 
CoS is an oddity at all levels - it only has 5 tracks, only 1 of them is studio, the other 4 are a) live and b) covers and 3 of those are medleys ... on the back cover those live tracks are listed as 'Additional' material (effectively you bought the 23 minute studio track and got the live stuff free... bonus!) ... at 57 minutes it's longer than most LPs. (Personally I don't see medleys as anything more than disposable promo material, but that's not a universal definition LOL)
 
The one studio track at 23 minutes is also longer than some LPs but by the UK definition it could technically count as a CD single (ie between 10 and 28 minutes of music), so without the live tracks it could still qualify as a CD Single, an EP or a single track LP - if the live tracks are counted as "bonus" then that still holds true. DT and Atlantic Records chose to call it an EP and we file it under Official Singles, EPs, Fan Club & Promo (CD, Vinyl/LP, Cassette, MP3, Digital Media Download) accordingly.
What?
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Points: 36909 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2009 at 18:05
My OED is in part... To be more specific, I was using my Oxford English Reference dictionary.
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