Throwaway Download Culture

you know Dean, this merging of two threads is really going to kill a good series of quotes within quotes within quotes. 

debrewguy wrote: as I said in the other thread, I like it best when an artist (say Hi Monsieur Barrett, take a bow Marillion) simply advises their fans that they rely on albums sales to keep making music, and then thank the fans who do support them. Illegal downloads are a mixed bag at best, and it depends on each act as to whether they've been affected positively or negatively. When a musician shows me that he or she appreciates the fact that people have chosen to spend hard earned money on their music, well ... right there it shows a certain respect for their audience, and reveals that the artist knows they must work to earn that privilege, album after album, tour after tour. No matter the challenges faced. And I'll be honest, with the current explosion niche within niche within a sub niche genre in music, it's no longer about trying to attract the casual listener. It's about getting and keeping those hard core fans that will pay for your CDs, special editions, LPs, DVDs, merchandise, tickets ... and also provide you with a honest to goodness real street team who's out there sharing their enthusiasm, not for pay, but for love of the music. Think of it - They'll pay you for your music, and  , to top that, they'll work for you. "hey , have you heard the new Voivod album, man ?"

As I said in my previous post, I don't see this as any different to how bands were operating before P2P raised it's head.

^ the heir. I think there's a time limit though.

Mr ProgFreak wrote: ^ the heir. I think there's a time limit though.

well screw them, no? dont the heir's have their own jobs? Unless it's someone like Dweezil Zappa

^ that's what I meant by "time limit". It varies from country to country, but it's at least several decades (I think in Germany it's 70 years).

I'm still with Nick Barrett on this one - the middle tier bands rely the most on album sales. From there, to each to make their decision on how their choice may affect their favourite band's options.
Now of course, as Akin has mentioned, and I've said too, many of those middle tier bands are still around because they've learned how to offer something that their fans will pay for, no matter how easy it is to download it for free.

Oh, by the way, can someone lend me $15 ? I want to get the new Marillion, but the budget won't be there 'til Mid November

^  Several years ago, I was involved in an "arrangement" with an internet buddy.  He had a friend who set up an FTP site, and uploaded ripped prog albums.  My buddy only had web tv (remember that???), so I would go to the site once a week, get the albums (20 or so at a time), burn them to CDR and send them to my buddy.  After getting around 70 or 80 albums this way, I started to question the ethics of this, and also started getting tired of spending the time doing it.  Of those 70 or 80 albums, I have bought maybe 6 or 8 on CD.  At the time, my justification was that I would buy what I really liked (although at the time, some of these albums, probably a third, were not in print and couldn't be bought new in any case........a subset of those were actually ripped from vinyl and had never been on CD.....I've kept about 10 or so that still are not available on CD at all).  Obviously, that didn't happen.

Now, in truth I doubt I would have bought even the 6 or 8 that I did buy if I hadn't heard them (though it's hard to say........I've learned about quite a few bands from this site that I never knew about back then, so it's still possible those would have been purchases eventually).  But as a musician myself (lifelong amateur), I can't help but feel guilty about taking someone else's hard  work (not to mention heart and soul) and not giving them anything in return.  So I never download, except if an artist is offering stuff for free and asking people to listen.  I also hate samples, and find them utterly useless.  This is just my feeling about them and experience with them and if other people find them helpful or useful that is great for them.

My first albums I purchased as a teenager were all on vinyl.  I taped them all and listened to them that way mostly.  My friends and I would give each other copies of albums on cassette regularly, because we didn't have enough money to each buy everything we wanted individually  (this, I don't think, can be considered the same as illegal downloading, since we were not making these tapes for millions of people to hear for free........though I'm sure it's no less illegal either).  By college, I bought everything on CD, but still taped them all for listening (CD players were still expensive then).  I like to have the physical object.  Call it a fetish, but I think it's just a simple thing, like stamp collecting or any other type of collection that people everywhere enjoy doing.  The music should always stand on it's own, of course, but for me I have a hard time separating prog music from the physical forms of art and lyrics in the booklets.  I can't even conceive of Tales From Topographic Oceans or Nursery Cryme without their covers and booklets.  But I suppose I'm a very visual person, and prog at its best creates lovely landscapes and galaxies and geometries in my head when I listen.

Anyway, I agree with Dean that downloading has probably done more to hinder the innovation and revolution in music than it has to move it forward.