Throwaway Download Culture |
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Mr ProgFreak
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 08 2008 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 5195 |
Posted: October 02 2009 at 02:04 | ||
Sorry, but I don't think that this is generally true. More than five years ago I was into file sharing, too. Back then (2002, 2003) you could do it without any legal consequences, and I must have downloaded tons of stuff. It was a time when I (re-)discovered prog, so I would download tons of stuff. In retrospect I only purchased a small fraction of all those albums. It's not that I wouldn't want to purchase them ... but even though I have a fairly big budget for music (especially compared to those who live in poorer countries), I simply couldn't afford buying those albums. For example I had the *entire* Zappa discography, more than 100 albums. One day I realized that what I was doing was wrong ... so I deleted all my downloaded files, and I haven't engaged in illegal downloading for more than five years now (no music, no movies, no software ... nothing). My point is: I'm sure that many people who download illegally are doing it with the best intentions (buying stuff if they like it) but at the end of the day they will not buy everything they download and enjoy. That's a problem IMO, because it means that people are listening to the work of an artist, enjoying it, but not compensating the artist. The fair solution would be to use legal offerings to sample the artist's albums and then buying albums based on those samples. I know that people who are used to listen to whole albums in order to make the decision are cautious to trust samples ... but from my own experience you rarely get disappointed by an album compared to the myspace samples (for example). |
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tamijo
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 06 2009 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 4287 |
Posted: October 02 2009 at 03:31 | ||
I compleetly aggree with Progfreak, 90+% of downloaded albums will never be purchased.
People in general are just too tempted bying another album, instead of the one they allready got.
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Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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Petrovsk Mizinski
Prog Reviewer Joined: December 24 2007 Location: Ukraine Status: Offline Points: 25210 |
Posted: October 02 2009 at 06:20 | ||
The problem is, with recording your own music, you gotta know how to do it. Yes, in 30 years technology will have changed, but the best gear will always be expensive, no matter what and that isn't an option for the struggling musician with working class/lower middle class day job. It's not as easy as getting your 25 dollar heaphones, your cracked/pirated copy of Cubase and an amp and a mic and calling yourself an audio engineer. Anyone and their dog can do that. Production, mixing and mastering (and to an extent engineering) are just as much as an art form as the music itself and it's something many people take for granted. It's just as much part of the package as the music itself. This is why we have dedicated producers, engineers, mixers engineers and mastering engineers, because they know what they're doing. In 30 years we will still need them because no matter how much technology will have evolved, it's no substitute for something with not JUST the gear, but the talent and knowledge. If suddenly every band/artist decided "Let's do it at home where we have no room treatment, computer speakers, cracked copies of software and no idea how to actually do it/use the software and equipment" suddenly the job of producers, engineers, mixers engineers and mastering engineers goes out the window. The result is suddenly the average production value level just plummet. And to be honest, no a goddamn chance am I gonna be paying for products with sub par production jobs because joe average thinks he has the skills but the reality is his product sounds like a muddy, undefined mess. So I honestly don't want to see the day all musicians record their music and call them commercial products happen.
Fixed. Edited by Petrovsk Mizinski - October 02 2009 at 06:22 |
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friso
Prog Reviewer Joined: October 24 2007 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 2506 |
Posted: October 02 2009 at 07:08 | ||
I will not manage to realize that the contaent is more important than the midium. Both are essential. Right now I'm searching for a vinyl copy of KC's Red. If some-one offered me a new disc without the coverwork I'd refuse. I would not get into the music that way. Music and art are a golden couple! The art gives direction to the music, while the music gives a way to look at the art. |
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Mr ProgFreak
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 08 2008 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 5195 |
Posted: October 02 2009 at 07:24 | ||
^ What's so special about the cover art of KC - Red?
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Petrovsk Mizinski
Prog Reviewer Joined: December 24 2007 Location: Ukraine Status: Offline Points: 25210 |
Posted: October 02 2009 at 07:46 | ||
The cover art of Red is meh anyway.
Anyway yeah, as much as I listen to MP3s, when I recently received a limited edition box set of the new album from Paramore, I had to admit it was kinda an emotional experience. The music is still the most important thing and I can live without the physical product, but the physical product is kinda cool too though. Edited by Petrovsk Mizinski - October 02 2009 at 08:21 |
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Mr ProgFreak
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 08 2008 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 5195 |
Posted: October 02 2009 at 09:48 | ||
I'll be purchasing the new Red re-release though ... it comes with a 5.1 DVD-A that was mixed by Steven Wilson!
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Rottenhat
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 14 2006 Location: Finland Status: Offline Points: 436 |
Posted: October 02 2009 at 10:55 | ||
"...And all of a sudden, kids can download an album in the space of
minutes. Not just an album - The band's entire back catalogue. Think
about it - A kid downloads The Wall, listens to a couple of tracks,
doesn't like what he hears and deletes it. This is the true danger of
the download - When music can be so easily obtained, it can be cast
away with just as little thought."
- Steven Wilson Well, you should put all copies a new album in a crate on the South Pole then, and the only for the fans is to go there and get it. Edited by Rottenhat - October 02 2009 at 11:32 |
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Language is a virus from outer space.
-William S. Burroughs |
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Kim?
Forum Groupie Joined: August 09 2007 Location: Norway Status: Offline Points: 84 |
Posted: October 02 2009 at 18:25 | ||
Oh, maybe I misunderstood the concept of a dormant law, then. I know that the law is there like you said, but what I meant was that it is almost never executed, and that everybody admits that they are downloading (using torrents, etc.) and it is commonly accepted (not that that makes it legal, though), so the law exists, but is not really 'active'. But I see the points many of the anti-downloaders are making, and I agree with most of them - I just find it hard to be idealistic/anti-hedonistic enough to stop downloading and to implement those concepts in my own life. It's a bit like my relationship with vegetarianism - I accept and support the ideas, but I somehow am to hedonistic to stop eating meat, etc. It's silly, really. But maybe one day I shall see it all much clearer and delete all my digital files and stop downloading. |
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MaxerJ
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 03 2009 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 127 |
Posted: October 02 2009 at 22:24 | ||
INGENIOUS Edited by MaxerJ - October 02 2009 at 22:24 |
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Godspeed, You Bolero Enthusiasts
'Prog is all about leaving home...' - Moshkito |
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KoS
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 17 2005 Location: Los Angeles Status: Offline Points: 16310 |
Posted: October 02 2009 at 22:28 | ||
Damn kids. Edited by KoS - October 02 2009 at 22:31 |
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Finnforest
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 03 2007 Location: The Heartland Status: Offline Points: 16913 |
Posted: October 02 2009 at 22:37 | ||
Yeah Kos....true enough. Some of us are old crabby guys
But ya know something else...sometimes you (general "you") young guys are just as quick to label us as we are you. |
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terryl
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 03 2007 Location: Thailand Status: Offline Points: 183 |
Posted: October 03 2009 at 03:43 | ||
Hi, just a thought here about this mp3 discussion. I had bought a lot of music in the cassette tape era, and these were copyrighted, legally distributed stuff by their appropriate labels. Of course, the artists had their share of the sales. Years gone by, cassette players became obsolete. Legal MP3 download off amazon or itunes mean nothing to me as my country is not eligible. Do you think downloading in this case is wrong? I do buy some albums i really like on CD format, even though i already paid for the cassette fifteen years ago. But to buy back all of those albums in CD i need to be a millionaire, even if I hunted most of my CDs on ebay. |
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And who are we to justify the right in all we do
Until we seek, until we find Ammonia Avenue http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrmJ39j58W0 |
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debrewguy
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 30 2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 3596 |
Posted: October 03 2009 at 09:41 | ||
it's always amusing to read insightful comments about how today's pop culture is easily disposed of or tossed away for the next new thing.
I know that my generation still has all its' Bay Cit Roller LPs, the platform shoes, the laser video discs, and we see no point in playing top 40 trivia from the 70s, because, well the top 40 in our time wasn't trivial. It was filled with eternally musically important acts like Shaun Cassidy & Leif Garrett. Please, there has always been ephemera in pop culture. Always will be. Just because most people don' choose to hold onto what you feel is important is just your choice of priorities. |
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"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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harmonium.ro
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 18 2008 Location: Anna Calvi Status: Offline Points: 22989 |
Posted: October 03 2009 at 10:09 | ||
words of wisdom |
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debrewguy
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 30 2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 3596 |
Posted: October 03 2009 at 11:03 | ||
For those who would like to preserve the past ephemera , I will accept cash, Paypal or Visa for shipping my Bay City Rollers'' LPs to anywhere in the world. My Shaun Cassidy albums though, I am donating to our local library for posterity.
Doesn't anyone remember the TV show "the San Pedro Beach Bums" ? oh, and all genres of music and art have their fair share of ephemera. because not everything deserves to be preserved forever, and nothing everything that does deserve to be preserved is preserved. Except for , seemingly, any old building that as managed to stay standing for more than 75 years. |
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"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 19 2007 Location: Penal Colony Status: Offline Points: 11415 |
Posted: October 03 2009 at 11:46 | ||
Owning a Bay City Rollers LP could be deemed embarrassing but owning a bootleg would be shameful. Even Hell has a door policy. I'll trade you my Haircut 100 discography (and posters) for your Rollers collection. |
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J-Man
Prog Reviewer Joined: August 07 2008 Location: Philadelphia,PA Status: Offline Points: 7826 |
Posted: October 04 2009 at 17:35 | ||
If someone downloads an album that they like, why wouldn't they buy it? It's probably because they don't have the money to buy everything they like. If we didn't download the album in the first place, we still wouldn't buy it because we don't have the money. If the situation does work out that way, then all the download did was give you some exposure to the artist, hopefully resulting in a purchase of a new album, or something like that down the road. Sure there are exceptions, but that is how I look at it. The bottom line is that we won't have the money to buy every album in existence, whether we download it or not. And I should mention that I rarely fileshare. I just try to defend it because it gets so much negative hype, when in reality it's no worse than "samples". -Jeff |
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Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
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terryl
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 03 2007 Location: Thailand Status: Offline Points: 183 |
Posted: October 04 2009 at 21:24 | ||
True for me. |
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And who are we to justify the right in all we do
Until we seek, until we find Ammonia Avenue http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrmJ39j58W0 |
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: October 05 2009 at 18:53 | ||
Anyone who has been following the parallel discussions in the Martin Orford Interview thread may be aware that there is a line of thought that sees downloading (and specifically illegal downloading) as causing a revolution in how music is presented, promoted and sold. On the face of it this seems like a logical conclusion, but I am not so convinced that downloading is responsible this change and may actually have hindered it to some extent. We are all aware of the horror stories about major label recording contracts and how they rip-off their artists, we have seen the public fights between big name stars such as Prince and George Michael and their respective record labels and seen how bands are dropped by labels as soon as they fail to deliver the next million selling album. We’ve also seen the successes that artists like Radiohead and NIN can achieve by extraditing themselves from restrictive recording contracts and using the Internet to market themselves. Yet still there are queues of people auditioning for X Factor and <insert my country name here>'s Got Talent and countless young bands sending in their demos to every record label they can find the postal address for. There are thousands of aspiring artists and performers who would sell their grandmothers to get a recording contract with any record label, big, small, independent or multinational, they approach these contracts with $$ signs in their eyes and sign them without quibble. So what went wrong, and why do all these people still believe in hitting the big time with a major recording contract?
The advent of broadband and mass downloading in my opinion created a huge smoke-screen that diverted the Major labels from putting their house in order, it gave them a scapegoat to rally against because it did affect their sales figures – they are sharp enough at understanding the market they operate in and employ well educated and well qualified accountants to tell them so. It also affected the smaller labels who were already working on methods to avoid the problems faced by declining album sales, and had been for many years before, because it removed a vital percentage of their revenue stream. So while it may look like P2P downloading has triggered this revolution, I believe it had already started before then, and would have happened quicker without it. |
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What?
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