Why are we such bigots? (or are we?)

Darn it, don't we already have 5001 threads on this that are already failing hard enough??? There's is nothing wrong with liking something better than something else. This PC crap is already bad enough in politics, why do we need it in a music forum???


Edited by Deathrabbit - June 24 2009 at 00:21

hitting_singularity2 wrote: I would have been perfectly fine with that post except for "I don't consider Rap as music, but some sort of street poetry with music in the background, and Hip Hop the worst thing that happened to music....And what about it?" take a look at the brilliant explenation of rap/hip-hip by Anderson III which i beleive you should have read already.  http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=58805&PN=1

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - June 24 2009 at 02:41

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: Why bigots or even snobs?     BTW: Bigotry is an offensive term  related mainly with intollerance or hatred against an ethnic, racial or religious group, so shouldn't be used to qualify people who simply know what they like and what they don't.   Iván

meptune wrote: I for one have been accused of being a musical biggot simply because I champion prog as my favorite genre. However, I can counter that accusation with the evidence of my record collection. I have, country, rap, disco, zydeco, pop, blues, reggae, classical, baroque, do-wop, opera, ethnic, broadway, and God only knows what else in the stacks. I just really like prog. That doesn't make me a biggot, it just says I have a preference.   On that note, I'll point out that there is a difference between preference and quality. I prefer Hostess Twinkies to fine French pastries. I would never suggest that Twinkies are of a higher quality simply on the basis of my preference. On the contrary, I know they're crap and I don't care. I simply prefer them. It's a matter of taste.

I find most metal AND rap unbearably uncouth, but that's got nothing to do with bigotry, it's inherent in those genres themselves. I mean, they're loved by their fans because ther ARE loud, rough and uncouth.

As I don't live in the USA, I'm not much bothered by country, but I used to be suspicious of everything that was even INFLUENCED by it. Now THAT was bigotry! Age twenty, back in the days of Joy Division and the Talking Heads, I didn't want to come across as a hick. Now that I'm more than twice that old I can do what I please and I'll gladly listen to Emmylou Harris, or to acts that are (occasionally) country-inspired, like Ry Cooder or Little Feat.

True bigotry means despising Hot Chocolate, Michael Jackson or the Bee Gees because their music is "commercial". I find their best tunes irresistible and their arrangements great. Once again, this is something I'd never have admitted in 1978! But nowadays I see no reason why they should be inferior to "prog" classics like "I've seen all good people" or "Locomotive Breath". Same inventivity, same sophistication.

I DO draw the line at totally manufactured artists like Madonna or Celine Dion, though. I simply can't stand their putrid smell.

fuxi wrote: I find most metal AND rap unbearably uncouth, but that's got nothing to do with bigotry, it's inherent in those genres themselves. I mean, they're loved by their fans because ther ARE loud, rough and uncouth.

Funny, because if you met me in real life you'd find I'm not a violent person and I'm quite shy and not very talkative, let alone loud. Yet I like metal and rap.

I could be wrong here, but I think what Fuxi was saying was not that the fans are loud, rough & uncouth, but the appeal of metal is that the music is loud, rough & uncouth.

As a long time metal fan myself, I know its raw power & agression is (when done well) a large factor in my enjoyment...

Absolutely Raff - but I'd always differentiate between Metal & prog metal; to my ears, metal means bands such as Motorhead, Priest, System Of A Down & so on.

I remember many many arguments in my youth trying to differentiate between heavy metal, heavy rock & hard rock

But that's away from the point...

Back to the original quote - I think had Fuxi meant the fans he would have said "they're loved by their fans because THEY are loud, rough and uncouth" as opposed to "they're loved by their fans because they ARE loud, rough and uncouth"

A small distinction, I know, but as I say, I could be wrong...

fighting sleep wrote: I'm not sure if this topic belongs here, but I'm wondering if I'm alone in my defense of other genres of music besides prog, particularly rap/hip-hop and country/folk music. These genres seem to take regular blows from members of this community, and the only reason I can think of to account for this is the bulk of garbage that is the mainstream music scene. Nowadays it seems rare to me that rock albums composed entirely of worthwhile songs ever float to the top, especially in popular music. We have to dig deep sometimes for music that is either truly fantastic or speaks to us on a personal level. That's why this site is so great to me. However, the same applies to other genres of music. I've been listening to a lot of rap and hip hop recently, and I love what I've managed to find that I like because there is a lot of creativity in the music some of these underground and alternative artists are doing. Mike Patton has done some fantastic stuff (Peeping Tom, General Patton vs. the X-ecutioners), and so have Dalek and Atmosphere. I will continue to explore rap because there's a lot of talent that I don't think I've discovered yet. And country/folk done right is fantastic too. Willie Nelson, Bob Dylan, Wilco, Leonard Cohen; these are all praiseworthy artists. Once again, there are probably plenty of other artists that are overshadowed by the terrifying awfulness of the pop-country singers So I pose my question to those people who don't have a problem with writing off rap or country with insulting comments; can you justify that level of bigotry with actual experience listening to the music? I'm looking for reasonable arguments against accepting these forms of music. And to the main body of the community: what do progressive rock listeners think of these genres and our attitudes toward them? Feel free to move/remove this post if it doesn't quite fit in this forum.

if you can show me some rap / hip-hop that does NOT have that, in my opinion, boring underlying steady beat, I'd be quite willing to listen to it, though I must admit I dislike the way the vocals are delivered in these bands too, but that's probably because of this steady beat. I have nothing at all against the spoken word (the lyrics are usually of rap or hip-hop are usually delivered in a sprechgesang), but I dislike it when they speak in a way that totally follows the steady beat of the music. it is too predictable for my taste.
there is of course also the question if music without that steady beat could still be called rap or hip-hop, since it seems to be one of the defining elements of it

Summoning are great! I also recommend Drudkh.