Writing a prog rock song |
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joelossia
Forum Newbie Joined: June 08 2009 Status: Offline Points: 35 |
Topic: Writing a prog rock song Posted: June 17 2009 at 16:36 |
No seriously, starting a side project and want to know how to write a prog rock song.
What scales should i use for soloing, etc?
Any advice much appreciated
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cobb2
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 25 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 415 |
Posted: June 18 2009 at 05:07 |
Don't use theory- use your imagination.
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joelossia
Forum Newbie Joined: June 08 2009 Status: Offline Points: 35 |
Posted: June 20 2009 at 06:59 |
Clever.
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Mr ProgFreak
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 08 2008 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 5195 |
Posted: June 20 2009 at 07:44 |
^ he's right though. I could tell you to solo in E phrygian minor, but how would that be progressive?
I think that when you want to write a prog song a solid knowledge of music theory can never be a bad thing. But scales, time signatures etc. usually can't give you the inspiration for a prog song. My advice: Try to come up with an interesting melody. Based on this melody, try to develop riffs and chord progressions, or other melodies that complement the initial one. Eventually that might lead you to a prog song. |
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2007 Location: Raeford, NC Status: Offline Points: 32524 |
Posted: June 20 2009 at 08:14 |
All of the advice you've been given is solid. I don't work around scales or modes or any of that. I don't "strive" to play a certain way.
I literally just mess around on a given instrument until I find a chord progression or melody or riff that is memorable and interesting to me. If it passes step one (and sometimes even if it doesn't), I begin to build around that melody, and flesh it out. It takes me a long time to write music, but I'm always pleased with the end composition. Good prog is memorable to me- that's the bottom line. If I hear it three times and cannot recall anything, I almost always don't like it. |
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Captain Capricorn
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 21 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1085 |
Posted: June 20 2009 at 08:22 |
experiment experiment experiment ...be free in your playing & allow that freedom to open up new avenues of playing, & when you stumble upon something that resonates with your artistic vision then hone in on it & develop it to it's fullest.
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2007 Location: Raeford, NC Status: Offline Points: 32524 |
Posted: June 20 2009 at 08:25 |
Excellent way to put it. I love the word "stumble." My favorite things I've ever written were created by complete accident, not by "knowing what I was doing" per se. |
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: June 20 2009 at 12:24 |
I wouldn't completely discredit trying some different modes and scales, if only to see what they sound like and whether they inspire anything, to see if they'll push you outside your comfort zone into new areas.
There are no rules for a Prog song - some will say abandon the verse-chorus structures, use layering, weird time signatures, unusual modulations (key changes), avoid I-IV-V chord progressions, etc. - but at the end of the day it is whatever works for you.
All I can recommned is being brutally honest with yourself - if you don't like something, trim it down to what you do like and build it back up from there - if you keep something that you are not totally happy with it will nag at you for ages after.
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What?
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mono
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 12 2005 Location: Paris, France Status: Offline Points: 652 |
Posted: June 24 2009 at 09:22 |
the only advice I can give is : do something you like, that is different from what you know.
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https://soundcloud.com/why-music Prog trio, from ambiant to violence
https://soundcloud.com/m0n0-film Film music and production projects https://soundcloud.com/fadisaliba (almost) everything else |
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 08 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 7559 |
Posted: June 24 2009 at 12:35 |
Compose thoughtfully.
Write something and imagine how it could continue - then try something else.
Run through the various ideas and see if they tell you a story or take you on a journey.
If they don't, then try to imagine the story or journey, and rewrite parts of the piece so they do.
Don't just jam stuff and say to yourself "That'll do".
Does it feel "right"?
Put that another way - does it feel like it has a life of it's own outside of you, the composer?
Does it sound like something else?
If so, rewrite it until it doesn't.
Play with the ideas - vary them slightly by a note.
Use modes, time signatures, theory, whatever you know - learn more stuff and use that. Forget it all and write something different.
Go back to the now sprawling mess and see if you can't transform it into something more coherent - if you're lucky, you might even be able to transform it into lots of things that are coherent.
But most importantly of all, play and enjoy.
Just given away my whole game plan there... except my golden rule when writing guitar solos - I always imagine that Nigel Tufnel is going to be the guitarist who plays it when we finally get a proper band together, so I mould my solos around his techniques... it all goes to 11
Let's summarise sensibly;
Lots of improvisation, combined with lots of thoughtful, structured composition - to me, that's one of the main secrets of great Prog, and I've yet to find an exception.
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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harmonium.ro
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 18 2008 Location: Anna Calvi Status: Offline Points: 22989 |
Posted: June 24 2009 at 16:15 |
^ That feels like reading Fripp's diary
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2007 Location: Raeford, NC Status: Offline Points: 32524 |
Posted: June 26 2009 at 07:43 |
Here's all you need know.
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progkidjoel
Prog Reviewer Joined: March 02 2009 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 19643 |
Posted: June 26 2009 at 08:39 |
I've only written what I would call one decent prog "melody", and as Epignosis was talking about before, it was one of those things I just stumbled upon.
Funnily enough, I was learning to play Marillion - FUGAZI on piano from ear when I just had some other random melody coming out... I've worked on it since, and its the only decent thing I've ever really written I guess. But keep trying |
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progkidjoel
Prog Reviewer Joined: March 02 2009 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 19643 |
Posted: June 26 2009 at 08:40 |
That got me some major laughs! For instance, do not write about: Sex with women The fun you can have with drugs Dancing Happy things Interesting things accessible to the average person, etc. Instead, write about: Your oppressive, domineering mother (“Mother,” Pink Floyd) Bad LSD trips (“Voyage 34,” Porcupine Tree) Being a homeless, creepy person (“Aqualung,” Jethro Tull) Depressing things (every song on The Wall, Pink Floyd) Boring, pretentious things that are interesting to no one (every song by King Crimson ever) |
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Negoba
Prog Reviewer Joined: July 24 2008 Location: Big Muddy Status: Offline Points: 5208 |
Posted: June 26 2009 at 08:58 |
I don't think you set out to write a prog song. It's just what boundaries you place around yourself and how far you're willing to push the envelope. The further you push the more likely you'll fall on your face. I've written close to a hundred songs, some pretty progressive, some very simple.
If you listen to alot of prog, what your ear will tell you is good will be more "proggy" than if you listen to blues all day.
Finally, as they say, learn from the masters. We all imitate our favorites when we start out, so don't feel bad writing a song that is in the same vein as music you really like.
Good luck.
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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer Joined: November 18 2007 Status: Offline Points: 4900 |
Posted: June 28 2009 at 22:16 |
Being truly Progressive is writing and playing without worrying about what genre you're in. Just write what you like and the rest will come naturally. The great thing about this genre is that it's so diverse that you can't help but be in Prog territory a lot of the time anyway. Hell, look how many non-Prog artists have been considered Prog without even really being aware of the genre much themselves.
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daslaf
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 03 2009 Location: Chile Status: Offline Points: 290 |
Posted: July 05 2009 at 16:30 |
Write a bass riff on 7/8 on a major scale which contains a modulation to its relative minor scale and then make a cannon with some variations of the bass riff on guitar and vibraphone.. oh and name the piece His Last Voyage
Nah joking, there's no formula, I don't have one... I guess the best thing you can do is listening to music and mess around with yer instrument or whatever
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But now my branches suffer
And my leaves don't bear the glow They did so long ago |
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Conor Fynes
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 11 2009 Location: Vancouver, CA Status: Offline Points: 3196 |
Posted: July 05 2009 at 16:59 |
Isn't that site AMAZING?
I recommend everyone to read their article about PA. Wikipedia doesn't have an article for ProgArchives, but Uncyclopedia certainly does.
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The Pessimist
Prog Reviewer Joined: June 13 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3834 |
Posted: July 05 2009 at 17:24 |
There are a few pieces of advice I'd give, as a writer of progressive rock/metal myself.
Have what you want to achieve in mind before you write. Some people may say that art just spews out of their heads uncontrollably, but it still requires a fair bit of planning. Write everything down, even the stuff you don't use so you can use it in another song. The way I write music is like a jigsaw. I have a number of riffs or chord sequences all partying around in my skull and I pick a few that fit together (if I'm brutally honest, you only really need about 3 bits, 5 or 6 max, unless you want to write a 40 minutes song). Then I create little sequences that link them all together, whether it be production reliant or actual notated sequences. It's basically just a bricks and mortar process, but then again I have mild OCD so I don't know On the scales thing, it depends whether your stuff is a major or minor, and the chords you are using. It also depends on the atmosphere you want to achieve with the solo. Is it happy? Sad? Funny? Weird? Angry? Different scales trigger different emotions in a song. When you tell me what mood you want achieve, then I may be able to help. Style of prog would also help (RIO, Prog Metal, Jazz Rock...) I would also strongly recommend the advice Micah (p0mt3) gave you also. |
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"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."
Arnold Schoenberg |
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darkshade
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: November 19 2005 Location: New Jersey Status: Offline Points: 10964 |
Posted: July 05 2009 at 17:44 |
of all the things you could learn, i think this is the most important
MAKE SURE THE MUSIC GOES SOMEWHERE AND THAT NOTHING IS DONE JUST FOR THE SAKE OF DOING IT. |
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