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AlbertMond View Drop Down
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Points: 139 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 05 2009 at 23:42
Originally posted by boo boo boo boo wrote:

Originally posted by AlbertMond AlbertMond wrote:

Originally posted by boo boo boo boo wrote:

Lets stop discrediting bands for having influences, please. If you can find me some King Crimson and Rush that mixes prog with post hardcore influences, then please feel free to share it. LOL
 
The thing about that is anybody can make any type of music any time.
The above is a song from 1968. That said, there is NO POSSIBLE WAY that it could have been influenced by the mid-late '80s black metal scene. However, it's safe to assume that -on a larger scale- they did it first.
 
I'm sorry about you CAN'T credit King Crimson and Rush for post hardcore.
 
I know some classic rock purists want to credit to credit 70s classic rock and prog bands for EVERYTHING, and they're really going overboard with it.
 
Crediting Ritchie Blackmore for punk rock is one of the more ridiculous examples of an argument someone once tried to make.
 
Not what I'm saying. I'm saying there were obviously very similar things from groups before said genres were 'established' that could potentially have made said genres entirely unnecessary for the existence of the sound that groups like that have.
Promotion so blatant that it's sad:
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JJLehto View Drop Down
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Points: 34550 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 05 2009 at 23:47
I hate the "punk" bands of now.
Green Day, Blink 182, Good Charlotte, Yellowcard ugh...I cant go on but the list does.

However, I do love a lot of old school punk and just regular punk.
I am a HUGE fan of Bad Religion. As well as Dead Kennedy's, The Casualties, Leftover Crack just to name a few.
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Petrovsk Mizinski View Drop Down
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Points: 25210 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 06 2009 at 02:28
^If those are the only "punk bands of now" you know, you need to look.
Punk is still a creative force, but you gotta look for it, it doesn't come to you. I don't think there is anything you can do with "regular" punk anymore, but if you want to look for punk/hardcore bands that are truly experimental, with amazing musician, avant garde elements, experimental elements, it does exist.

If you' haven't already, listen to The Shape of Punk to Come by Refused, released in 1998. It's one of the most influential post hardcore records of all time and for good reason.
It totally changed the way I Iooked at punk and made me want to dig deeper into the genre.
Where many punk bands have just been rehashing the same 3 chords The Ramones used, Refused was part of a movement that totally broke away with that.
The sheer creativity of the album blows me away and still does 4 years after first hearing it and hearing it over 100 times.
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lucas View Drop Down
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Points: 8138 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 06 2009 at 04:48
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Sorry Lucas, couldn't disagree more. Thrash metal and death bands would, and indeed did, have mutated from stuff as far back as Sabbath in the early '70's.
Slayer's 'Undisputed attitutde' is an album of punk covers, "songs by bands that made Slayer what it is" according to Kerry King. The only metal sub-genre which would be highly influenced by Black Sabbath is Doom metal, but it has nothing in common with thrash, death or speed metal.
Seriously the connection between these bands :
 
and these ones :
 
is obvious.
 
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Mars Volta could be seen as a Crimson influenced band
 
ok for Tool, but Mars Volta ? This sounds more like a furious alternative rock band, say Smashing Pumpkins, with twisted rhythms. I know only 'de-loused in the comatorium' so my comparison is based on this album.
 
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

alternative rock has existed since the beginning of time
you can't deny punk paved the way to altenative rock. Here is a quote from wikipedia : Alternative rock consists of various subgenres that have emerged from the independent music scene since the 1980s, such as grunge, Britpop, gothic rock, and indie pop. These genres are unified by their collective debt to the style and/or ethos of punk rock, which laid the groundwork for alternative music in the 1970s.[1]
 
 
"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
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Petrovsk Mizinski View Drop Down
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Points: 25210 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2009 at 04:03
In addition to what Lucas said, but I'm under the impression that lazland is not aware that the founding members of The Mars Volta were formed by former members of one of the most influential post hardcore bands of all time, At The Drive In. So to say The Mars Volta is not influenced by punk/hardcore is just absurd.
I listen to post hardcore daily and every single TMV album shows not just post hardcore influence but actual sections of post hardcore music.

Dave Mustaine, as we all now know as one of the thrash metal pioneers has cited hardcore punk bands as an influence for him musically (and arguably lifestyle wise, lol).
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WalterDigsTunes View Drop Down
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Points: 4373 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2009 at 16:44
Dave Mustaine is an amazing musician from a bygone age, just as hardcore and punk are worthwhile relics.
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AlbertMond View Drop Down
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Points: 139 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2009 at 22:00
Originally posted by lucas lucas wrote:

The only metal sub-genre which would be highly influenced by Black Sabbath is Doom metal, but it has nothing in common with thrash, death or speed metal.
Seriously the connection between these bands : 
 
LOLWUT?
Sabbath influenced every metal sub-genre. The only even possible exceptions to this are Metalcore and Nu Metal, but that's only if you disregard second-hand influence. Heavy Metal, Doom Metal, Stoner Metal, Sludge, Gothic Metal, Glam Metal, Speed Metal, Thrash Metal, all bear their seal (witty reference!). If you think Sabbath had little or nothing in common with Thrash, you have to listen to stuff like "Paranoid," "Symptom of the Universe," and "Children of the Grave." Then, you can look at a few of the bands who've covered Sabbath. All four of the big four.
Promotion so blatant that it's sad:
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Calculate900 View Drop Down
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Points: 87 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2009 at 22:16

I'm a Celtic Punk fan.

Anyway, I do like a bit of the Clash and the Ramones, but not much besides that.  Sex Pistols aren't my style at all.
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Cheesecakemouse View Drop Down
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Points: 1751 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2009 at 22:23
Sorry after listening one song  and onto the next the gimmick wears off for me and I just get bored with them. 
I think the 1970s NY scene was promising, Television etc sound interesting. Clash can be catchy had a few good ones. Strummer was a closet fan of Yes, but I still think the Clash are pretentious.



  
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Points: 10841 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 09 2009 at 16:36
Originally posted by AlbertMond AlbertMond wrote:

Originally posted by lucas lucas wrote:

The only metal sub-genre which would be highly influenced by Black Sabbath is Doom metal, but it has nothing in common with thrash, death or speed metal.
Seriously the connection between these bands : 
 
LOLWUT?
Sabbath influenced every metal sub-genre. The only even possible exceptions to this are Metalcore and Nu Metal, but that's only if you disregard second-hand influence. Heavy Metal, Doom Metal, Stoner Metal, Sludge, Gothic Metal, Glam Metal, Speed Metal, Thrash Metal, all bear their seal (witty reference!). If you think Sabbath had little or nothing in common with Thrash, you have to listen to stuff like "Paranoid," "Symptom of the Universe," and "Children of the Grave." Then, you can look at a few of the bands who've covered Sabbath. All four of the big four.


Glam Metal? Well, maybe you listed ONE genre too many.
But I agree with the rest of the post.
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St.Cleve Chronicle View Drop Down
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Points: 1131 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2009 at 05:19
There's a Finnish band called Eppu Normaali that I like. Their early albums were punk, but then they adopted a more subtle rock sound. They have written quite a few catchy tunes, and their humorous lyrics are great.
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Lost Follower View Drop Down
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Points: 130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 17 2009 at 17:08
Originally posted by Cheesecakemouse Cheesecakemouse wrote:

Strummer was a closet fan of Yes.


You are clinically insane.
~Jump you f**ker jump~
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A B Negative View Drop Down
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Points: 1594 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2009 at 04:52
Originally posted by Lost Follower Lost Follower wrote:

Originally posted by Cheesecakemouse Cheesecakemouse wrote:

Strummer was a closet fan of Yes.


You are clinically insane.
 
Keith Levene (from the original Clash line-up, later of Public Image Limited) was a fan of Steve Howe and even worked as a roadie for Yes.
"The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time."
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Lost Follower View Drop Down
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Points: 130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2009 at 05:00
Originally posted by A B Negative A B Negative wrote:

Originally posted by Lost Follower Lost Follower wrote:

Originally posted by Cheesecakemouse Cheesecakemouse wrote:

Strummer was a closet fan of Yes.


You are clinically insane.
 
Keith Levene (from the original Clash line-up, later of Public Image Limited) was a fan of Steve Howe and even worked as a roadie for Yes.



He did indeed and is still a fan(unbelieveabley) , however, there was more chance of Strummer cutting his left gonad off with a rusty hacksaw than being a 'closet'  fan of  Yes.
~Jump you f**ker jump~
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moshkito View Drop Down
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Points: 17546 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2009 at 12:03
Hi,
 
Unlike Hannah Montana, who is a Disney creation designed to make money and has nothing to do with the talent and creativity of the girl herself ... (who now has to fight to get her own identity!) ... things like The Sex Pistols are a totally different ball game ...
 
First of all ... they are not about the music ... they are about the scene and some people's reaction to it.
 
Rock music had grown away from the AM hit stations and the BBC had opened up the gates and learned its lessons in the late 60's when they could have made major money on all those bands, but their control of the masses and what it listened to ... changed dramatically.
 
In the 60's what helped a lot of music and other things get heard in Europe was done via a lot of Pirate radio ... and the Kinks, Beatles and Rolling Stones and many others owe a lot to those folks ... and eventually they broke through ... but it was still controlled ... harshly ... and there are many stories about Elvis and the Coronel if you don't believe me.
 
The 70's with FM radio in America helped break the rest ... however it was only to last a couple of years before it became just another AM station with hipper music ... well it didn't exactly have a top ten, but it had the Blue Dots and Red Dots and Green Dots ... aa different form of top ten ... but at least you played Led Zeppelin and Who and Rolling Stones and Beatle/s every hour!
 
By the time the Sex Pistols came up, it was a serious rejection process and I almost like to say that it was well orchestrated by a producer ... that knew he could break through if he could shake someone's jacket some ... and that he did! He is the first person to tell you that there might not be enough music in there ... but there is one thing in there that you can not find in some music at all ... even classical music and its history ... and it's pure, unadulterated heart ... and fully felt and jumped and letting you know ... I'm here ... I'm  a person ... and I deserve attention ... just like anyone else ... and not a single person could ever sit here and honestly say ... he wasn't right.
 
The NY Dolls and some of the NY punk scene, was not the same ... for my ears, even Iggy and the Stooges did not have much to what they were doing other than the presentation of their material ... by comparison the lyrics in most of the NY Dolls stuff was poor and not much to talk to mom about, or even over a drink or even over a glass of wine ... gotta be kidding me! And it was easy to let that scene pass by ...
 
I always thought that the London scene was a bit different ... I think they knew that there were no artistic anything to worry about and to hope for and aspire to ... and they did what is left ... the pure and raw emotion ... for all intents and purposes Iggy had it in his performance, but I tend to suggest that his band had no idea ... they just thought they had a heck of leading man in the band!
 
It's a progression in music ... a very valid expression that led to what today we call metal in a lot of ways ... but sadly, in general scenes that are reactionary tend to implode ... and sometimes blow up their own scene into oblivion ... I personally think that sometimes you have to scream to get your parent's or girlfriend's (or boyfriend's) attention ... but a lot of us think that's not necessary ... but more often than not it is.
 
The equivalent in England to this in theater was in the 50's with the group known as the "angry young men" ... and it tells you how much more respect people have for theater (then) that they did not have for music ... most of these people never got into film until at least 10 years later, but the punk scene in London, just about killed itself ... senselessly .... but then, I don't think that the people around them were honorable enough to help them either!
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LandofLein View Drop Down
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Points: 214 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2009 at 20:20
"If it wasn't for all that stuff. Would you STILL hate the Sex Pistols?"
 
If it wasn't for all that stuff, they wouldn't exist (or at least they would just be regular drug addicts that no one would care about)
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derektrainwreck View Drop Down
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Points: 6 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 19 2009 at 15:31
who doesnt like punk!
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Captain Capricorn View Drop Down
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Points: 1085 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 19 2009 at 15:50
Originally posted by derektrainwreck derektrainwreck wrote:

who doesnt like punk!


...depends on what you mean by punk. I personally love bands like Television, Richard Hell & the Voidoids, Elvis Costello's work with The Attractions, Talking Heads, etc., but I can do without The Ramones, The New York Dolls, & The Sex Pistols


Edited by Captain Capricorn - June 19 2009 at 15:53
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progvortex View Drop Down
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Points: 242 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 26 2009 at 13:49
The only punk bands I can tolerate are Bad Religion and Toy Dolls. 
Life is like a beanstalk... isn't it?
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Points: 3252 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 26 2009 at 20:30
I only like the album fresh fruit for rotten vegetables ,or something similar ,of Dead Kennedys
Hi progmaniacs of all the world
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