Punk Rock
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=58220
Printed Date: December 12 2024 at 11:10
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Topic: Punk Rock
Posted By: boo boo
Subject: Punk Rock
Date Posted: May 24 2009 at 17:48
 First. Lets get past a few things.
Yes it's almost obligatory for every proggie to dispise this band.
Yes they took the sh*t on prog.
Yes they were objectively the worst musicians of all time.
Yes they were just a big charade put together to market a fashion chain store.
Yes Sid Vicious was a huge douchebag.
Yes Johnny Rotten sings like a dying cat.
Yes they were New York Dolls ripoffs.
Yes every critic faps over them day by day trying to feed us the same ol' bullsh*t about how they were working class heroes and how they SAVED rock music from those evil prog bands.
Yes it's now trendy for 14 year old Hannah Montanas to wear their t shirts.
But lets get past all that. If it wasn't for all that stuff. Would you STILL hate the Sex Pistols?
Because I have a confession to make. I like Never Mind the Bollocks. Actually I love it. Yes, it's a charade, a shaggy dog joke, the musicianship is f*cking awful, any idiot could fart out an album like this. But it's also hella fun fist pumping rock n roll, and pretty much every song is hard to get out of your head. And as a rock n roll record, isn't that all that should really matter?
This is the band proggies love to hate, but do they really deserve to be? You decide.
So.... Who here likes punk? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs/?chartstyle=LastfmSuicjdeGirls" rel="nofollow"> 
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Replies:
Posted By: Lost Follower
Date Posted: May 24 2009 at 18:18
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Who gives a flying f**k about musicianship except drongos? With respect.... ------------- ~Jump you f**ker jump~ |
Posted By: Moatilliatta
Date Posted: May 24 2009 at 18:28
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I used to be somewhat of a fan, but eh, not so much these days. Nevertheless, I don't despise it for any reason. I could care less about anything that doesn't relate to the actual music. ------------- www.last.fm/user/ThisCenotaph  
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Posted By: The Doctor
Date Posted: May 24 2009 at 18:37
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I listened to Nevermind the Bollocks once, not too many years ago actually. I suffered a brain hemorrhage. At least I think I did. My ears started bleeding anyway. Terrible. And I don't care about any of the things the op mentioned. It was just unpleasant to listen to. ------------- I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you? |
Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: May 24 2009 at 18:41
I don't hate Sex Pistols, much less so the punk movement/music. (actually, I proposed The Pistols for inclusion, half-jokingly, long time ago )As much as I love prog - in fact, prog is my love No.1 - I own punk a great deal for my perception of rock 'n' roll in general. I love Television, The Clash, New York Dolls, Lene Lovich, Devo, Ian Dury, Lou Reed, and The Stooges. Also the new wave bads who were influenced by punk but picked much artier approach, PiL, XTC and The Stranglers. Incredible music. The problem is of course, in dilletant journalism who is repeating the same things ad nauseam, skewing the thruth. The next problem is narrow-mindedness of music fans: each prog fan should give a try (if it's not already familiar) to a simpler forms of rock and try to see why it can be so appealing, perhaps not starting with the UK Subs, but some art-punk act. On the other hand, each punk fan should check some prog act, perhaps not Yes, but certainly some Krautrock or Kevin Ayers. If you're prog fan and you know only prog, one punk record can widen your musical perspective more than 100 newly discovered prog albums. And vice versa. My home town (and country in general) expereinced a real artistic and social renaissance during the 80s which can not be compared with anything before. There was an avalanche of great bands, and some feeling of unity for the better future. Of course there was also anger , typical punk angst, but it was directed to the establishment which certainly deserved it. But it used to be so sweet to have that anger (as well as other honest feelings and artistical creativity) among the people who are thinking same as you, who are good-hearted, and who wants to change things. That sprit continued in the 90's despite of war, crisis and all the social changes, and in a degree it's still significant to the present day. These open-hearted anarcho youngsters are almost only ones who are actually doing some sort of counter-culture, organising events, printing fanzines, doing protests against politics swamped in corruption. I'm 33, I was yesterday on a punk festival with many Croatian and Serbian punk & rock bands, I saw friends that I haven't seen in ages - and I also had great fun, for the first time out after many months. I play in an art/punk/rock band and I'm proud of it. |
Posted By: boo boo
Date Posted: May 24 2009 at 19:10
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I have a love/hate relationship with The Sex Pistols. On one hand I think NMTB is a great record. On the other hand it's what the band stood for that makes them so hatable. They brought about the decline of bands with competent musicians.But proggies need to keep an open mind, Sex Pistols are not even one of the better punk bands. There's a lot of really good punk bands, like Minutemen and X. Some of them are good musicians.
Johnny Rottens second band Public Image Ltd is actually better than The Sex Pistols, they're a more arty punk band, according to Rotten they include VDGG and Hawkwind as influences, so they might even appeal to prog fans. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs/?chartstyle=LastfmSuicjdeGirls" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: May 24 2009 at 19:46
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I actually think the Pistols were pretty vacant and sounded like Status Quo on a bad night, but the production on Never Mind The Bollocks is surprisingly good. ------------- What? |
Posted By: boo boo
Date Posted: May 24 2009 at 19:49
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Their sound is taken pretty much from the New York Dolls. They wouldn't have stood out at all if it weren't for Rottens in your face vocal style. Anyway. I'm changing the theme of this thread to an overall punk rock discussion, since I couldn't find one, tried searching for one. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs/?chartstyle=LastfmSuicjdeGirls" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: weetabix
Date Posted: May 24 2009 at 20:44
| A whole generation grew up believing that 11min. numbers were short,and LP's should be double and anything w/out a 5 min. drum solo was pop.Guitars were to be played very loud and endlessly, w/out reference to what the rest of the band was doing, audiences were to be ignored in favour of artistic credibility. So yes, I fancy punk! Ramones, Clash, Rotten Rod and the Warheads. |
Posted By: boo boo
Date Posted: May 24 2009 at 21:01
Uh, are you talking about prog or punk?  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs/?chartstyle=LastfmSuicjdeGirls" rel="nofollow">
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weetabix wrote:Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: May 24 2009 at 21:31
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I still wouldn't like the Sex Pistols. I disliked them before I listened to prog. They're just such poor musicians. And I don't care about non-technically inclined music, I love blues. It's simple, but a lot of feel, most punk is just straightup poor musicianship. If you can't play very well keep it simple, don't just play anyway and sound sloppy as hell |
Posted By: ClemofNazareth
Date Posted: May 24 2009 at 21:52
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I have piles of old punk casettes from back in the day, stuff that seemed raw and innovative and energetic at the time. I'm staring at a shelf full of them right now and it seems I spent an awful lot of money on fhe stuff:
the Nip Drivers, Jim Carroll, the Germs, the Plasmatics, Black Flag, Fear, the Cramps, Bad Brains, Mekons, Veronica Lipgloss, Flogging Molly, the Dead Milkmen, the Dead Kennedys, Jody Foster's Army, the Meatmen, Fearless Iranians From Hell, the Heartbreakers, Blondie, the Dictators, Buzzcocks, Pere Ubu, the Adverts, the Stooges, Mink Deville, Ultravox, New York Dolls, Eddie & the Hot Rods, Stiff Little Fingers, Patti Smith, X, Sonic Youth, the Slits, the Larrys, Crumbsuckers, the Clash, the Ramones....; and yes, NMTB. All that stuff had a certain appeal in its day, but none of it stands the test of time very well. I'm not even sure most of those casettes will still work anymore, since frankly I haven't played most of it in at least a decade. If anyone wants a huge pile of old plastic and dry-rotting magnetic tape cheap drop me a line. I think punk was just another one of those fads that people got caught up in during a time when there was a sad dearth of any kind of really good music to listen to, and a lot of us were going through an angry phase and looking for some way to vent. Maybe I've turned into an old fart, but most of that stuff seems kind of amateurish and silly today. ------------- "Peace is the only battle worth waging." Albert Camus |
Posted By: crimson87
Date Posted: May 24 2009 at 22:11
Well said. i realized about this when I got tired of the same Symph/Neo/Retro stuff and listened to the Mars Volta for the first time. That was refreshing as hell !
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: May 24 2009 at 22:21
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I only used to hate the band and punk in general because I was an ignorant prick really. I grew up and did my research and hell, I realized without punk and it's various sub genres, a lot of sh*t I like today wouldn't exist or wouldn't exist in the same way it does. But to be fair, I visit many other music sites as well and prog is not a first love of mine, I place don't see it as something I love anymore than straight metal or punk or whatever. I tend to see myself as a cross between a hardcore and metal kid really, I just really like prog metal a lot too obviously, hehe. And for reference, PA has quite a few punk albums or stuff heavily derived from punk in it's database. Protest The Hero was a bunch of young kids that came from a punk/hardcore background and developed skills to play their blend of spastic metalcore/tech metal/prog metal/whateverthehell. The two founding members of The Mars Volta were in a post hardcore band prior to TMV. That's right folks, A POST HARDCORE BAND, namely At The Drive In. The post hardcore influence remains throughout their albums, if not as blatant as The Fall Of Troy. So if you're still bashing on punk and yet love TMV, Protest The Hero or the Fall Of Troy, try doing some research and you'll find out the band simply wouldn't exist without punk. And hey, as much as I don't like the musical aspect of The Sex Pistols that much, I'd rather listen to that than the pop garbage that Yes and Genesis put out. And that's not to say I hate pop per se, I just think the way Yes and Genesis did it was poorly executed. ------------- 
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Posted By: KoS
Date Posted: May 24 2009 at 22:39
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They were good once. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 24 2009 at 22:40
| Mathrock owes almost half its lineage to Punk |
Posted By: Lost Follower
Date Posted: May 25 2009 at 03:24
Mission accomplished. ------------- ~Jump you f**ker jump~ |
Posted By: Lost Follower
Date Posted: May 25 2009 at 03:25
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There is so much moronic hippy drivel bollox on this thread that I think I may vomit on my leg.
------------- ~Jump you f**ker jump~ |
Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: May 25 2009 at 03:40
Too bad that post-hardcore jazz was already done in the late 80s by Fugazi, just as Rush and KC did what TMV and Protest the Hero did... back in the 70s. |
Posted By: boo boo
Date Posted: May 25 2009 at 15:42
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Now I think you're taking it to a ridiculous extreme. The Mars Volta sonically don't sound a thing like King Crimson. Nobody's gonna have trouble telling those two apart. They owe their influence to much more than Crimson.
Lets stop discrediting bands for having influences, please. If you can find me some King Crimson and Rush that mixes prog with post hardcore influences, then please feel free to share it.
 And there's a huge sonic gap between early post hardcore like Fugazi and the latter stuff like At the Drive In, anyone could tell the difference. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs/?chartstyle=LastfmSuicjdeGirls" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: May 25 2009 at 16:18
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Without punk we wouldn't have any tech thrash/death band, no avant-garde like John Zorn's Painkiller, no Cardiacs, no Mars Volta and the likes. No smashing pumpkins, no alternative rock, no Nirvana, no Kiling Joke... ------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: May 25 2009 at 16:22
| A world without John Zorn, Cardiacs or Killing Joke would be awful. A world without Mars Volta, Smashing Pumpkins or Nirvana, however..... |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: May 25 2009 at 16:25
Sorry Lucas, couldn't disagree more. Thrash metal and death bands would, and indeed did, have mutated from stuff as far back as Sabbath in the early '70's. Mars Volta could be seen as a Crimson influenced band, alternative rock has existed since the beginning of time, or certainly Jerry Lee ranting against Elvis hegemony .Punk was really in the UK a media led vehicle for a bunch of mainly art school t**sers wanting to make a name for themselves. Most of them, with a couple of notable exceptions, were utterly useless, and, thank God, it failed in its stated aim of getting rid of the music we worship on this site. Rotten asvertising butter anyone?  ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: May 25 2009 at 16:27
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I've always viewed punk as just being trendy when it first came out. To this very day, I still have better things to do with my musical time. I got turned on to PIL's Compact Disc recently and liked it. From what I've heard Lydon hated it. Go figure.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: boo boo
Date Posted: May 25 2009 at 17:51
Would be VERY awful. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs/?chartstyle=LastfmSuicjdeGirls" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: boo boo
Date Posted: May 25 2009 at 17:58
Influence is influence, you can't discredit one genres influence just because of another genres influence. Mars Volta have more than just prog influences and that all goes into their sound, including the punk. Thrash metal was for the most part a fusion of metal and punk. So it wouldn't exist without punk. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs/?chartstyle=LastfmSuicjdeGirls" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: May 25 2009 at 17:58
| Utopia |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: May 25 2009 at 18:01
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Well, to be honestr I like Rock (Prog and almost all Rock), Jazz and even some Pop, but Punk is something I could never resist, IMO represents total lack of musicianship (I believe musicisnshuip maters), skills, imagination and quality.
I even like some sub.products of Punk like a couple New Wave bands, because they added interest and varuiety to that twio chords structure.
So I really never noticed it existed, here in Perú it was almost ignored, and i thank God for that.
Iván ------------- 
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Posted By: boo boo
Date Posted: May 25 2009 at 18:01
Smashing Pumpkins are in my top 10 bands.  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs/?chartstyle=LastfmSuicjdeGirls" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: boo boo
Date Posted: May 25 2009 at 18:30
Punk isn't defined by a lack of musicianship so much as it's defined by attitude, which doesn't always have to come out as sloppy, loud, fast paced music, because that's not all that punk is. And thus, punk bands can be good musicians and such bands do exist.
Punk is actually very diverse. Sex Pistols just make up the stereotypical image of a punk band much in the same way ELP make up the stereotypical image of a prog band. But there's much more to it than that.
The music people associate with punk the most is the early stuff like Sex Pistols, The Damned, The Clash.
But it evolved greatly over time. To include things like...
New wave.
Mixed punk with pop, reggae and world music. This includes Talkings Heads, The Police and XTC.
Post punk,
Mixed punk with a range of genres including avant garde, funk, reggae, krautrock and sometimes even prog. Joy Division, Gang of Four and Public Image Ltd are good examples of post punk bands. These guys influened goth rock bands like The Cure, and a lot of alternative and indie rock.
Hardcore
80s hardcore saw a very diverse movement of punk bands. Including Minutemen, X and Dead Kennedys. And then post hardcore like Fugazi. Which has now found it's way in some prog bands like The Mars Volta and The Fall of Troy.
2 Tone
Mixed punk with ska, dub, reggae and other carribean genres. Defined by groups like The Beat and The Specials.
Psychobilly
Mixes punk with early rock n roll music. The Cramps being the best example.
Celtic punk
Mixes punk with celtic folk. The Pogues pretty much invented it.
Just to name a few.
Those that I've mentioned specifically were actually pretty talented or at least decent musicians. People need to realise that Ramones, Clash and Sex Pistols merely laid out the ground work. Many more bands would expand upon it. And if you gave it a chance you might even find something you'd like. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs/?chartstyle=LastfmSuicjdeGirls" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: May 25 2009 at 19:10
Saaay, you don't currently have a safety pin sticking through your cheek? 
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: May 25 2009 at 19:15
Punk is the 77 - 78 phenomenom, and was pretty mediocre IMHO, the oher genres you mention are not Punk, are musical styles or forms that evolved from Punk but mixed with elements of different genres.
As I said I like some new Wave bands, but they have as much from mainstream as from Punk.
For people who like Punk, it may be defined by an attitude, for me the original Punks (Not different genres that evolved from a mix of Punk and anythjing), are defined by mediocrity.
That's my opinion.
Iván -------------
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Posted By: boo boo
Date Posted: May 25 2009 at 19:16
Nope.
Granted I don't wear sparkly cloaks or cod pieces either. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs/?chartstyle=LastfmSuicjdeGirls" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: boo boo
Date Posted: May 25 2009 at 19:27
New wave may be an exception, you could call that more of a spinoff, like how prog spun off of psychedelic rock. But it still owes much of it's existance to punk.
Punk is used to describe a very diverse genre of music, much like metal and prog. You seem to be associating punk only with the early bands. But it's grown into a much larger genre since then.
The others I mentioned are undeniably sub-genres of punk. It's very common for all the bands I mentioned to simply be called "punk" bands. Post punk and Hardcore are especially direct predecessors to the original punk movement. As for fusion genres like those I mentioned, it's common for sub-genres to any genre to bring something new into the mix. But just like folk metal is still metal and prog folk is still prog. Ska punk and celtic punk are still punk. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs/?chartstyle=LastfmSuicjdeGirls" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: May 25 2009 at 19:42
You say it's a sub-genre, i say all are independent genres that have connection with Punk, as much as with other genres.
But all of them exceed largely what Punk means, their ideology and their musical conception. Or do you believe ther's any connection between Blondie and Sex Pistols?
Celtic Punk may be an exception, because it's simply a local form of Punk.
Nobody denies they owe something to Punk, but also to other genres.
Iván -------------
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Posted By: mrcozdude
Date Posted: May 25 2009 at 19:56
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Punk was an important movement,one which knocked pretentious a****les like ourselves on our ass.I mean come on King Arthur on ice?!? Something had to be done.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/cozfunkel/" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: boo boo
Date Posted: May 25 2009 at 20:02
They still put more emphasis on punk than the other genres. I guess I chose my words poorly, they didn't just mix punk with these other genres, rather they take those different styles and put them into a punk rock context. That's why they count as punk.
Prog bands mix many genres, but they still count as prog. And thus any genre can be supplemented into punk rock and it still counts as punk rock. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs/?chartstyle=LastfmSuicjdeGirls" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: May 25 2009 at 20:13
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Guess we must agree to disagree Boo Boo.
Iván -------------
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Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: May 26 2009 at 11:31
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Right now im very into green day, never realy ceared for em before but i heard a song by em on the radio that sounded almost like punk/prog, so i yust hade to buy thire newest album and american idiot, becaus i was sure the song must be on ither of those and i have to say they are realy good, i never been a big punk fan but since i try to be openminded about music and try difrent stuff i heard most of the big names and kinda like most of it. ------------- 
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Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: May 26 2009 at 19:41
| I would hardly even call Green Day punk anymore. They're just a bunch of pretty boy pop stars to me |
Posted By: victor77
Date Posted: May 28 2009 at 09:01
That´s a good observation; FUGAZI has really influenced many obscure bands, and I´ve considered them one of the direct links to modern post rock bands. Proto post rock? ell, something like that
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Posted By: boo boo
Date Posted: May 28 2009 at 20:18
Green Day are to punk what Styx is to prog.
Only Styx are way better.  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs/?chartstyle=LastfmSuicjdeGirls" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: May 29 2009 at 20:19
| Styx are far better. They always play near my area and it's always very cheap. I've seen them multiple times |
Posted By: AlbertMond
Date Posted: May 30 2009 at 01:34
The thing about that is anybody can make any type of music any time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPiO_G-DEHs - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPiO_G-DEHs
The above is a song from 1968. That said, there is NO POSSIBLE WAY that it could have been influenced by the mid-late '80s black metal scene. However, it's safe to assume that -on a larger scale- they did it first. ------------- Promotion so blatant that it's sad: 
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Posted By: AlbertMond
Date Posted: May 30 2009 at 01:38
JD practically is Goth rock. Plus, I hear way more Doors in most of their stuff than Sex Pistols.
Hardcore is a form of Punk in the first place, and not all that far from the tree.
Funny thing about that is most early punk draws quite heavily off of '60s garage rock anyway. So it's kind of an Oedipus thing there.
------------- Promotion so blatant that it's sad:
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Posted By: boo boo
Date Posted: May 30 2009 at 23:14
Yeah but you don't really hear any rockabilly in stuff like The Pistols, The Damned and other bands of that era. You can hear some in The Ramones. But there were a lot of different influences in there and the end result didn't sound anything like rockabilly.. As opposed to The Cramps, who had a very rockabilly heavy sound.
And a pretty sexy broad for a guitarist I might add. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs/?chartstyle=LastfmSuicjdeGirls" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: May 31 2009 at 09:04
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Posted By: Captain Capricorn
Date Posted: May 31 2009 at 09:33
Nomeansno, case in point
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Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: June 02 2009 at 14:19
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I've been a punk fan even longer than I've been a prog fan. I don't really go for too much current-day punk, but the 80s hardcore stuff I came of age with as a teenager is still near and dear to me.
Nomeansno? Did someone mention Nomeansno? Why yes, I think they're fantastic. ------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: akamaisondufromage
Date Posted: June 02 2009 at 17:04
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On the question, Yes I like punk of course I do.
Is 'Curtain Call by the Damned Prog or Punk? (Its about 17) min long.
------------- Help me I'm falling! |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: June 02 2009 at 18:10
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Hey punk where you goin with that safety pin through your cheek?
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Moatilliatta
Date Posted: June 02 2009 at 21:09
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On another note, there are some progressive-minded punk bands these days. Surely you won't hear a punk band playing crazy odd-times, boasting a bombastic, symphonic sound or whatever, but you will hear intelligent, creative, powerful music being made by punk bands. Things like celtic punk and punkabilly, and hardcore punk geniuses Refused have already been mentioned, but here are a few modern punk bands that haven't been touched upon yet (I don't think): First thing of note is "The Decline" by NOFX, which is an 18-minute punk epic. It is musically sound, and I find it to be a great song. Leagues beyond what most people perceive punk music to be. Surely it's not complex like an avant-garde or even symphonic prog song, but it's clearly well-written and highly inspired. Unfortunately NOFX didn't too much music this great, but they did have their share of songs here and there in years past.
There is also a punk band called Propagandhi currently making music who I find to write very good songs on both objective and subjective grounds. They aren't afraid of writing songs over 4-minutes that don't follow formulas at all, and there is solid group interplay, technicality and what not. They also are extremely passionate about their music. Their lyrics are extremely intelligent and meaningful, even if you don't agree with their extreme opinions.
Also, a band called The Lawrence Arms released an album called The Greatest Story Ever Told which is semi-conceptual, as it has recurring themes and motifs. It's well-crafted musically and lyrically.
Then we have a band called A Wilhelm Scream who play a technical kind of punk rock. Strung Out is an earlier example. Fast leads, rhythmic or melodic shifts and so on. Not too much in the way of odd-times or other prog-related attributes, but it's a respectable, forward-thinking output for their genre.
Bear vs. Shark is an experimental, melodic hardcore punk band that put out a couple of great albums. In a sense they took the mantle from At the Drive-In. Angular riffs, quirky rhythms, a variety of sounds, a mathy tinge, very dynamic, etc.
I think Punk rock has evolved nicely, and I think there have been, are, and will be some great bands in the genre. I mean, surely someone looking for the highest caliber musicians and compositions won't find anything here that's remotely near the ranks of classical, jazz or prog rock. It's definitely not "academically legitmate," smooth and/or pleasant to all ears or anything of that sort, but it can be made by truly inspired people, and some even made by talented musicians (as in the cases above).
There is a clip of Billy Idol talking about punk rock at the beginning of Mogwai's album Come on Die Young (the track is titled "punk rock"), and I think it's a very thought-provoking statement for naysayers. Nothing too weighty, but it's hard to argue with it. ------------- www.last.fm/user/ThisCenotaph
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Posted By: akamaisondufromage
Date Posted: June 03 2009 at 11:57
Mr Bartfast
Yes, me again maisondufromage. I never put a safety pin through my cheek. We just used to cut off a piece of the wire and then slot it over our lip so it just looked like it was through our cheek!
No not that cheek  .------------- Help me I'm falling! |
Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: June 03 2009 at 12:05
Billy Idol rules! |
Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: June 03 2009 at 14:54
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im a huge fan of the Post-punk band Killing joke they do things musicly unic that few other bands have done. none of there albums sound as the previous... I have 4 albums from this marvelos band 1 Killing joke (self titled debut from 1980) 2 Night Time from 85 a realy dark almoust gothic in feel very good album, not a bad track on this record 3 Pandemonium from 1994 realy good and majestic in sound and killer riffs from Geordie Walker 4 Hoseannas from the basements of Hell  mohahahhahkilling joke kikk butt realy and have a minemalistic aproaoch but with a BIG sound and grate arangements and have influenced the hole grunge and hardcore scene all by them self (just ask Dave Grohl, Trent Raznor and Mike Patton) Jaz Coleman is Englands answer of Frank Zappa in terms of creativity. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: June 03 2009 at 15:04
Hey, thanks for clearing that up for me. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: AlbertMond
Date Posted: June 04 2009 at 06:49
Also, I think the 'redskin' punk group Angelic Upstarts is notable as sounding a bit prog-influenced.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqbsW5hE8v8 - Take a listen to their first single. ------------- Promotion so blatant that it's sad:
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Posted By: boo boo
Date Posted: June 04 2009 at 09:15
I'm sorry about you CAN'T credit King Crimson and Rush for post hardcore.
I know some classic rock purists want to credit to credit 70s classic rock and prog bands for EVERYTHING, and they're really going overboard with it.
Crediting Ritchie Blackmore for punk rock is one of the more ridiculous examples of an argument someone once tried to make. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs/?chartstyle=LastfmSuicjdeGirls" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: June 04 2009 at 09:52
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I can never feel what it was like in the seventies. From what I heard from punks / new wavers, prog rock was so dominating that lots of young musicians couldn't have a place in the music spectrum.Then punk came and changed all that.
So any artist who could play three, or even two chords, suddenly could find an audience. Music was not intellectual anymore, but it was alive. The energy of rock was back. That's what you heard.
Also that prog stars, and people like Rod Stewart, the Rolling Stones and The Who became complacent. And were looking down on punks, being to big for their boots.
Now was it really like that, or was punk The Great Rock 'n' Roll Swindle? Just a way for young people to get heard? I don't know, because back in 1977 I was just moving from Slade and Mud to Queen, so to say.
I like reading interviews with people like Johnny Rotten and Bob Geldof: colourful people (Rotten still is) who made you think things over.
But the music? The Sex Pistols were probably a great live act, not because of the music, but because of the stage presence of Johnny Rotten especially.
Other bands did have some interesting music, like the Clash, who were very open to different kinds of influences.
Punk did provide a fertile ground for new wave, where some of the old punk dogma's were disappearing, like the absence of synths.
But as a musical style, I'm not a big fan of punk, probably never will be. Still, I like the energy of punk, from time to time.
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Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: June 04 2009 at 15:55
| M C 5. Not saying their first, but Ramblin Rose is pretty straight punk and is performed as early as 1967 |
Posted By: AlbertMond
Date Posted: June 05 2009 at 23:42
Not what I'm saying. I'm saying there were obviously very similar things from groups before said genres were 'established' that could potentially have made said genres entirely unnecessary for the existence of the sound that groups like that have. ------------- Promotion so blatant that it's sad:
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Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: June 05 2009 at 23:47
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I hate the "punk" bands of now. Green Day, Blink 182, Good Charlotte, Yellowcard ugh...I cant go on but the list does. However, I do love a lot of old school punk and just regular punk. I am a HUGE fan of Bad Religion. As well as Dead Kennedy's, The Casualties, Leftover Crack just to name a few. |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: June 06 2009 at 02:28
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^If those are the only "punk bands of now" you know, you need to look. Punk is still a creative force, but you gotta look for it, it doesn't come to you. I don't think there is anything you can do with "regular" punk anymore, but if you want to look for punk/hardcore bands that are truly experimental, with amazing musician, avant garde elements, experimental elements, it does exist. If you' haven't already, listen to The Shape of Punk to Come by Refused, released in 1998. It's one of the most influential post hardcore records of all time and for good reason. It totally changed the way I Iooked at punk and made me want to dig deeper into the genre. Where many punk bands have just been rehashing the same 3 chords The Ramones used, Refused was part of a movement that totally broke away with that. The sheer creativity of the album blows me away and still does 4 years after first hearing it and hearing it over 100 times. -------------
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Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: June 06 2009 at 04:48
Slayer's 'Undisputed attitutde' is an album of punk covers, "songs by bands that made Slayer what it is" according to Kerry King. The only metal sub-genre which would be highly influenced by Black Sabbath is Doom metal, but it has nothing in common with thrash, death or speed metal.
Seriously the connection between these bands :
the exploited : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEvh3BRvSRU&feature=related - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEvh3BRvSRU&feature=related
GBH : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQRvBJrGMRs&feature=related - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQRvBJrGMRs&feature=related
discharge : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rk9v6AM1hUk&feature=related - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rk9v6AM1hUk&feature=related
and these ones :
slayer : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kToGOsronOk - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kToGOsronOk
sacred reich : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rp6HF7mxTlo - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rp6HF7mxTlo
sodom : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Htq03kP4CCY&feature=related - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Htq03kP4CCY&feature=related
anthrax : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t0affoV5rI&feature=related - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t0affoV5rI&feature=related
metallica : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UX2jrWifKak&feature=related - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UX2jrWifKak&feature=related
is obvious.
ok for Tool, but Mars Volta ? This sounds more like a furious alternative rock band, say Smashing Pumpkins, with twisted rhythms. I know only 'de-loused in the comatorium' so my comparison is based on this album.
you can't deny punk paved the way to altenative rock. Here is a quote from wikipedia : Alternative rock consists of various subgenres that have emerged from the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_music - independent music scene since the 1980s, such as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grunge_music - grunge , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britpop - Britpop , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_rock - gothic rock , and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indie_pop - indie pop . These genres are unified by their collective debt to the style and/or ethos of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punk_rock - punk rock , which laid the groundwork for alternative music in the 1970s. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_rock#cite_note-altguitar-0 - [1]
------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: June 08 2009 at 04:03
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In addition to what Lucas said, but I'm under the impression that lazland is not aware that the founding members of The Mars Volta were formed by former members of one of the most influential post hardcore bands of all time, At The Drive In. So to say The Mars Volta is not influenced by punk/hardcore is just absurd. I listen to post hardcore daily and every single TMV album shows not just post hardcore influence but actual sections of post hardcore music. Dave Mustaine, as we all now know as one of the thrash metal pioneers has cited hardcore punk bands as an influence for him musically (and arguably lifestyle wise, lol). -------------
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Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: June 08 2009 at 16:44
| Dave Mustaine is an amazing musician from a bygone age, just as hardcore and punk are worthwhile relics. |
Posted By: AlbertMond
Date Posted: June 08 2009 at 22:00
LOLWUT?
Sabbath influenced every metal sub-genre. The only even possible exceptions to this are Metalcore and Nu Metal, but that's only if you disregard second-hand influence. Heavy Metal, Doom Metal, Stoner Metal, Sludge, Gothic Metal, Glam Metal, Speed Metal, Thrash Metal, all bear their seal (witty reference!). If you think Sabbath had little or nothing in common with Thrash, you have to listen to stuff like "Paranoid," "Symptom of the Universe," and "Children of the Grave." Then, you can look at a few of the bands who've covered Sabbath. All four of the big four. ------------- Promotion so blatant that it's sad:
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Posted By: Calculate900
Date Posted: June 08 2009 at 22:16
 I'm a Celtic Punk fan. Anyway, I do like a bit of the Clash and the Ramones, but not much besides that. Sex Pistols aren't my style at all. |
Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Date Posted: June 08 2009 at 22:23
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Sorry after listening one song and onto the next the gimmick wears off for me and I just get bored with them. I think the 1970s NY scene was promising, Television etc sound interesting. Clash can be catchy had a few good ones. Strummer was a closet fan of Yes, but I still think the Clash are pretentious. ------------- |
Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: June 09 2009 at 16:36
Glam Metal? Well, maybe you listed ONE genre too many. But I agree with the rest of the post. |
Posted By: St.Cleve Chronicle
Date Posted: June 15 2009 at 05:19
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There's a Finnish band called Eppu Normaali that I like. Their early albums were punk, but then they adopted a more subtle rock sound. They have written quite a few catchy tunes, and their humorous lyrics are great. |
Posted By: Lost Follower
Date Posted: June 17 2009 at 17:08
You are clinically insane. ------------- ~Jump you f**ker jump~ |
Posted By: A B Negative
Date Posted: June 18 2009 at 04:52
Keith Levene (from the original Clash line-up, later of Public Image Limited) was a fan of Steve Howe and even worked as a roadie for Yes. ------------- "The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time." |
Posted By: Lost Follower
Date Posted: June 18 2009 at 05:00
He did indeed and is still a fan(unbelieveabley) , however, there was more chance of Strummer cutting his left gonad off with a rusty hacksaw than being a 'closet' fan of Yes. ------------- ~Jump you f**ker jump~ |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: June 18 2009 at 12:03
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Hi,
Unlike Hannah Montana, who is a Disney creation designed to make money and has nothing to do with the talent and creativity of the girl herself ... (who now has to fight to get her own identity!) ... things like The Sex Pistols are a totally different ball game ...
First of all ... they are not about the music ... they are about the scene and some people's reaction to it.
Rock music had grown away from the AM hit stations and the BBC had opened up the gates and learned its lessons in the late 60's when they could have made major money on all those bands, but their control of the masses and what it listened to ... changed dramatically.
In the 60's what helped a lot of music and other things get heard in Europe was done via a lot of Pirate radio ... and the Kinks, Beatles and Rolling Stones and many others owe a lot to those folks ... and eventually they broke through ... but it was still controlled ... harshly ... and there are many stories about Elvis and the Coronel if you don't believe me.
The 70's with FM radio in America helped break the rest ... however it was only to last a couple of years before it became just another AM station with hipper music ... well it didn't exactly have a top ten, but it had the Blue Dots and Red Dots and Green Dots ... aa different form of top ten ... but at least you played Led Zeppelin and Who and Rolling Stones and Beatle/s every hour!
By the time the Sex Pistols came up, it was a serious rejection process and I almost like to say that it was well orchestrated by a producer ... that knew he could break through if he could shake someone's jacket some ... and that he did! He is the first person to tell you that there might not be enough music in there ... but there is one thing in there that you can not find in some music at all ... even classical music and its history ... and it's pure, unadulterated heart ... and fully felt and jumped and letting you know ... I'm here ... I'm a person ... and I deserve attention ... just like anyone else ... and not a single person could ever sit here and honestly say ... he wasn't right.
The NY Dolls and some of the NY punk scene, was not the same ... for my ears, even Iggy and the Stooges did not have much to what they were doing other than the presentation of their material ... by comparison the lyrics in most of the NY Dolls stuff was poor and not much to talk to mom about, or even over a drink or even over a glass of wine ... gotta be kidding me! And it was easy to let that scene pass by ...
I always thought that the London scene was a bit different ... I think they knew that there were no artistic anything to worry about and to hope for and aspire to ... and they did what is left ... the pure and raw emotion ... for all intents and purposes Iggy had it in his performance, but I tend to suggest that his band had no idea ... they just thought they had a heck of leading man in the band!
It's a progression in music ... a very valid expression that led to what today we call metal in a lot of ways ... but sadly, in general scenes that are reactionary tend to implode ... and sometimes blow up their own scene into oblivion ... I personally think that sometimes you have to scream to get your parent's or girlfriend's (or boyfriend's) attention ... but a lot of us think that's not necessary ... but more often than not it is.
The equivalent in England to this in theater was in the 50's with the group known as the "angry young men" ... and it tells you how much more respect people have for theater (then) that they did not have for music ... most of these people never got into film until at least 10 years later, but the punk scene in London, just about killed itself ... senselessly .... but then, I don't think that the people around them were honorable enough to help them either!
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Posted By: LandofLein
Date Posted: June 18 2009 at 20:20
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"If it wasn't for all that stuff. Would you STILL hate the Sex Pistols?"
If it wasn't for all that stuff, they wouldn't exist (or at least they would just be regular drug addicts that no one would care about)
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Posted By: derektrainwreck
Date Posted: June 19 2009 at 15:31
| who doesnt like punk! |
Posted By: Captain Capricorn
Date Posted: June 19 2009 at 15:50
...depends on what you mean by punk. I personally love bands like Television, Richard Hell & the Voidoids, Elvis Costello's work with The Attractions, Talking Heads, etc., but I can do without The Ramones, The New York Dolls, & The Sex Pistols |
Posted By: progvortex
Date Posted: June 26 2009 at 13:49
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The only punk bands I can tolerate are Bad Religion and Toy Dolls.
------------- Life is like a beanstalk... isn't it? |
Posted By: markosherrera
Date Posted: June 26 2009 at 20:30
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I only like the album fresh fruit for rotten vegetables ,or something similar ,of Dead Kennedys
------------- Hi progmaniacs of all the world |
Posted By: akamaisondufromage
Date Posted: June 27 2009 at 11:42
'Toy Dolls' Oh my sainted aunt!
------------- Help me I'm falling! |
Posted By: A B Negative
Date Posted: June 28 2009 at 06:08
To me, they're very different. What do you get from them that you don't get from other punk bands? ------------- "The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time." |
Posted By: The Sleepwalker
Date Posted: June 29 2009 at 08:55
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I've never been against punk or disliked it, but yesterday I was at Parkpop (Europe's biggest free festival) in The Netherlands, and the Buzzcocks were performing. Now I know why so many people dislike punk, it was just terrible, the guitar player screwed up a solo of two notes and the music sounded like nothing more than just noise. I do like the proto-punk of the Stooges though.
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Posted By: A B Negative
Date Posted: June 29 2009 at 11:48
Not the solo on Boredom by any chance? ------------- "The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time." |
Posted By: akamaisondufromage
Date Posted: June 29 2009 at 11:51
Sounds like it!------------- Help me I'm falling! |
Posted By: The Sleepwalker
Date Posted: June 29 2009 at 11:53
Yes, it was
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Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: June 29 2009 at 12:40
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Strange. I always heard good thing about the Buzzcocks. I guess the sound was bad, because they are from anything noisy on their records, rather "poppy". |
Posted By: A B Negative
Date Posted: June 30 2009 at 02:02
That's what it's meant to sound like!
------------- "The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time." |
Posted By: The Sleepwalker
Date Posted: June 30 2009 at 05:47
Yes, I know the solo is supposed to consist of only 2 notes, but he failed at playing those 2 notes without any mistake.
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Posted By: A B Negative
Date Posted: June 30 2009 at 10:55
That appeals to my warped sense of humour. ------------- "The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time." |
Posted By: Moatilliatta
Date Posted: June 30 2009 at 11:43
Yea, the Buzzcocks were pretty good in their day. ------------- www.last.fm/user/ThisCenotaph
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Posted By: A B Negative
Date Posted: July 01 2009 at 02:02
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I've seen the Buzzcocks a couple of times. Once was great, the other not quite (Diggle's guitar was too loud and I think he'd been drinking...). ------------- "The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time." |