 Roj M30 wrote:
You know, it really brasses me off that bands like BOC and other IDM acts aren't on here. Their music is what I would call truly progressive. If post rock/math rock (where the link is very tenuous) is considered prog, I'd like to know how IDM isn't. I guess there's some people who are just stuck and won't try and venture out at all. It's their loss. |
I understand how you feel, but it's not worth worrying about. Go and read the definition of Progressive Electronic on this site and you'll understand why they don't qualify. I respect the hard work the collaborators have done in this genre, but they have explicitly stated that while they are in charge IDM will not be admitted to the archives. That's their right, and so forth. Doesn't stop us enjoying the music, I guess, but it does make it more difficult for us to interest fellow proggers in music I know they'd enjoy more than (with respect) some of the borderline stuff that has made it here.
Here's the argument I made a year ago. I've taken out references to the collaborators.
Let me start with a hearty thank-you to the progressive electronic team, who have carried the progressive electronic genre squarely on their shoulders. They are very knowledgeable about the sort of music they classify as progressive electronic, and have done many hours of research and hard work on behalf of the members of ProgArchives. For this I can only applaud them.
However, bearing in mind the inclusiveness at the heart of this great site, expressed succinctly by the site’s founder, I’d like to propose the genre should be expanded far beyond its current narrow limits. At the moment anything that is perceived as ‘New Age’ or ‘cheesy’ or ‘easy listening’ or ‘of the dancefloor’ is being rejected or at best placed in ‘Prog Related’ (e.g. VANGELIS).
I’ve read carefully the ProgArchives definition of the genre. To sum up things, the progressive electronic subgenre is dedicated to intricate, moving, cerebral, intrusive electronic experiences that get involved in “kosmische”, dark ambient, (post) industrial, droning, surreal or impressionist soundscapes territories.
This is very narrow! Fortunately for electronic music lovers, the genre is much more extensive than this extraordinarily narrow definition.
Electronic music which has as its focus unusual and changing time signatures, avant-garde sound effects, retro instruments (such as Hammond organ, harpsichord or Moog) and complex interplays of melody and rhythm ought to be described as progressive. There are dozens of artists and hundreds of albums from the so-called ‘dance music’ scene, and from many other places, that meet these criteria.
To the uninitiated the dance music scene is characterised by 4/4 beats and an absence of creativity, pandering to the mindless youth. However, this is to ignore the whole subgenre of IDM (intelligent dance music) and the many ambient artists spawned by the chill-out room.
I direct the team’s attention to the excellent article in wikipedia (heaven forbid we use this source as reference, but it just so happens this article summarises the genre perfectly):
Intelligent dance music (commonly IDM) is a genre name invented by the creators of an online mailing list to describe dance music of the 1980s and early 1990s which uses unusual and "weird" sounds, defies rhythmic convention, and is much harder to dance to than most forms of techno (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_dance_music).
In my view the major bands in the IDM movement are progressive. Here I offer evidence from the writings of professional reviewers:
“‘Second Toughest In The Infants’ [UNDERWORLD, 1996] is nothing less than the interface of prog rock and beats, representing one of the most mature and frequently surprising records of the 1990s” (Daryl Easlea, 1001 Albums You Must Hear Before You Die, Quintet Publishing, London, p790).
“What PINK FLOYD and THE ORB share is, simply, an approach to music. They represent a rare triumph of aesthetics over ideology; the former punk ignoring proscriptions, listening to the prog rock dinosaurs, creating the music he likes” (David Bennun, Melody Maker, 1993).
“[THE ORB’s] U.F.Orb reached #1 on the UK Albums Chart to the shock of critics, who were surprised that fans had embraced what journalists considered to be progressive rock” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.F.Orb, referencing ‘Sullivan, Caroline. "Breakdown", The Guardian, 1993-04-09).
“Two months later, Phil and Paul released "The Box," a 28-minute single of orchestral proportions. It screamed of prog rock excess -- especially the inclusion of synth harpsichords -- and appeared to be the first misstep in a very studied career. The resulting In Sides, however, became their most acclaimed album, with many excellent reviews in publications that had never covered electronic music” (John Bush, Orbital, All Music Guide).
“[APHEX TWIN’s] music is just prog rock for the 90's, or put another way, noodly old hippie sh*t with no grip on reality” (Mark Sutherland, New Musical Express, March 1995).
“[FUTURE SOUND OF LONDON’s] latest release, The Isness, shows their ability to evolve from pure drum'n'bass to a more progressive rock sound that would surprise anyone who didn't already know they are capable of pretty much anything”(http://www.ugo.com/channels/music/features/bandsondemand/artist.aspx?artist=FutureSoundOfLondon&cat=electronica&full=Future%20Sound%20of%20London. Sighted 3 May 2008).
The difficulty faced by those seeking to categorise such music is that the artists involved in the movement also indulged in more standard forms of electronic techno, house and trance. For example, the undeniably mainstream (but extraordinarily interesting) KLF sold more singles in the UK in the late 80s and early 90s than any other band, but also produced the seminal ‘Chill Out’ album:
The album has many recurring musical elements, which unify and merge the parts into the collective whole, such that a part considered in isolation is incomplete despite its distinctiveness. Common characteristics of most parts include ethereal background synthesizers, the use of echo and pitch bend, samples of nature and transport, and the punctuation of soft synthesizer loops by sudden flourishes of harmonious sound. The Deep South is variously represented using original pedal steel contributions from Graham Lee and emotionally-charged samples of US radio broadcasts: an evangelist's sermon, a range of samples of a very intense salesman, and, in "Madrugada Eterna",[3] the detailed news report of a fatal road accident. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chill_Out)
I’d find it impossible to characterise this album as anything other than progressive, yet very little else of the group’s extensive work is remotely progressive.
This situation is further complicated by the offshoots of the KLF, including THE ORB, who produced a distinctive body of work seen as the logical successor to PINK FLOYD; and FFWD, a collaboration between members of THE ORB and ROBERT FRIPP (which appears in ProgArchives at http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=2353). Ironically this purely progressive electronic band is listed under Jazz/Rock fusion!
An example of the interconnectedness between traditional prog bands and progressive electronica is GUY PRATT, the bassist for the more recent post-WATERS incarnations of PINK FLOYD. He’s also a long-time THE ORB collaborator, writing some of their music and performing with them live and in the studio. Even more influential on THE ORB’s music was STEVE HILLAGE, formerly of GONG, who plays guitar on their studio albums and formed his own band, SYSTEM 7, with MIRQUETTE GIRAUDY. THE ORB has also collaborated with ROBERT FRIPP and BILL LASWELL, among many others.
Notwithstanding the difficulties, an effort ought to be made to incorporate musicians and albums whose impact has filtered through into ProgArchives. Perhaps the most telling recent inclusion is BATTLES, a band with roots in the New York electronic scene (including DON CABALLERO, also included in ProgArchives). They are signed to Warp records, a label that is the stable of many of the world’s top progressive electronic acts. Their sound is not unlike others at Warp, and it beggars belief that BATTLES, a relative newcomer to IDM, should be listed here and the bands – such as AUTECHRE themselves – on whose shoulders BATTLES sit, are absent. Of course, like FFWD they came into ProgArchives through the back door: they are listed as Post Rock/Math Rock. The ‘progressive electronic’ genre is far too narrow as presently formulated to admit them.
Ironically, the level of creativity and progressiveness in the IDM scene is a quantum leap ahead of electronic prog staples like TANGERINE DREAM and JEAN MICHEL JARRE.
Perhaps my point can best be illustrated by the following seminal albums:
KLF: Chill Out, 1990
BLACK DOG PRODUCTIONS: Bytes, 1993
APHEX TWIN: Selected Ambient Works 85-92, 1992
FUTURE SOUND OF LONDON: Lifeforms, 1994
ORBITAL: Snivilisation, 1993; In Sides, 1996
BOARDS OF CANADA: Music Has The Right To Children, 1999
THE ORB: Adventures Beyond the Ultraworld, 1991; U.F. Orb, 1993
UNDERWORLD: Dubnobasswithmyheadman, 1993; Second Toughest in the Infants, 1996
AUTECHRE: Tri Repetae++, 1995, Confield, 2001.
Try dancing to any of that lot.
As I said, this argument went nowhere. I'm articulate and can marshal an argument, and I'm knowledgeable about IDM. I fired my very best shots, and to their credit the team listened to the albums listed above, but rejected them all. Ah well, I tried.
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The Intelligent Dance Music Appreciation Thread
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