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victor77 
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Joined: March 13 2007
Location: Spain
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Points: 142
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 Posted: May 28 2009 at 09:01 |
 boo boo wrote:
And then post hardcore like Fugazi. Which has now found it's way in some prog bands like The Mars Volta and The Fall of Troy. |
Thatīs a good observation; FUGAZI has really influenced many obscure bands, and Iīve considered them one of the direct links to modern post rock bands. Proto post rock? ell, something like that
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boo boo
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Location: United States
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Points: 905
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Posted: May 28 2009 at 20:18 |
himtroy wrote:
I would hardly even call Green Day punk anymore. They're just a bunch of pretty boy pop stars to me |
Green Day are to punk what Styx is to prog.
Only Styx are way better. 
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himtroy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 20 2009
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Points: 1601
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Posted: May 29 2009 at 20:19 |
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Styx are far better. They always play near my area and it's always very cheap. I've seen them multiple times
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AlbertMond
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Joined: December 27 2008
Location: Namibia
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Points: 139
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Posted: May 30 2009 at 01:34 |
boo boo wrote:
Lets stop discrediting bands for having influences, please. If you can find me some King Crimson and Rush that mixes prog with post hardcore influences, then please feel free to share it.  |
The thing about that is anybody can make any type of music any time.
The above is a song from 1968. That said, there is NO POSSIBLE WAY that it could have been influenced by the mid-late '80s black metal scene. However, it's safe to assume that -on a larger scale- they did it first.
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Promotion so blatant that it's sad:
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AlbertMond
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Posted: May 30 2009 at 01:38 |
boo boo wrote:
Post punk,
Mixed punk with a range of genres including avant garde, funk, reggae, krautrock and sometimes even prog. Joy Division, Gang of Four and Public Image Ltd are good examples of post punk bands. These guys influened goth rock bands like The Cure, and a lot of alternative and indie rock. |
JD practically is Goth rock. Plus, I hear way more Doors in most of their stuff than Sex Pistols.
boo boo wrote:
Hardcore
80s hardcore saw a very diverse movement of punk bands. Including Minutemen, X and Dead Kennedys. And then post hardcore like Fugazi. Which has now found it's way in some prog bands like The Mars Volta and The Fall of Troy. |
Hardcore is a form of Punk in the first place, and not all that far from the tree.
boo boo wrote:
Psychobilly
Mixes punk with early rock n roll music. The Cramps being the best example.
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Funny thing about that is most early punk draws quite heavily off of '60s garage rock anyway. So it's kind of an Oedipus thing there.
Edited by AlbertMond - May 30 2009 at 01:39
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Promotion so blatant that it's sad:
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boo boo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 28 2005
Location: United States
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Points: 905
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Posted: May 30 2009 at 23:14 |
AlbertMond wrote:
boo boo wrote:
Post punk,
Mixed punk with a range of genres including avant garde, funk, reggae, krautrock and sometimes even prog. Joy Division, Gang of Four and Public Image Ltd are good examples of post punk bands. These guys influened goth rock bands like The Cure, and a lot of alternative and indie rock. |
JD practically is Goth rock. Plus, I hear way more Doors in most of their stuff than Sex Pistols.
boo boo wrote:
Hardcore
80s hardcore saw a very diverse movement of punk bands. Including Minutemen, X and Dead Kennedys. And then post hardcore like Fugazi. Which has now found it's way in some prog bands like The Mars Volta and The Fall of Troy. |
Hardcore is a form of Punk in the first place, and not all that far from the tree.
boo boo wrote:
Psychobilly
Mixes punk with early rock n roll music. The Cramps being the best example.
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Funny thing about that is most early punk draws quite heavily off of '60s garage rock anyway. So it's kind of an Oedipus thing there.
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Yeah but you don't really hear any rockabilly in stuff like The Pistols, The Damned and other bands of that era. You can hear some in The Ramones. But there were a lot of different influences in there and the end result didn't sound anything like rockabilly.. As opposed to The Cramps, who had a very rockabilly heavy sound.
And a pretty sexy broad for a guitarist I might add.
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aapatsos
Special Collaborator
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Joined: November 11 2005
Location: Manchester, UK
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Points: 9226
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Posted: May 31 2009 at 09:04 |
Atavachron wrote:
Mathrock owes almost half its lineage to Punk
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Actually it sounds more punk than prog to me sometimes...
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Captain Capricorn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 21 2009
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Points: 1085
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Posted: May 31 2009 at 09:33 |
aapatsos wrote:
Atavachron wrote:
Mathrock owes almost half its lineage to Punk |
Actually it sounds more punk than prog to me sometimes...
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Nomeansno, case in point 
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HolyMoly
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Joined: April 01 2009
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Posted: June 02 2009 at 14:19 |
I've been a punk fan even longer than I've been a prog fan. I don't really go for too much current-day punk, but the 80s hardcore stuff I came of age with as a teenager is still near and dear to me.
Nomeansno? Did someone mention Nomeansno? Why yes, I think they're fantastic.
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My other avatar is a Porsche
It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased.
-Kehlog Albran
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akamaisondufromage
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Posted: June 02 2009 at 17:04 |
On the question, Yes I like punk of course I do.
Is 'Curtain Call by the Damned Prog or Punk? (Its about 17) min long.
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Help me I'm falling!
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Slartibartfast
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Joined: April 29 2006
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Posted: June 02 2009 at 18:10 |
Hey punk where you goin with that safety pin through your cheek? 
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Moatilliatta
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 01 2005
Location: United States
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Posted: June 02 2009 at 21:09 |
On another note, there are some progressive-minded punk bands these days. Surely you won't hear a punk band playing crazy odd-times, boasting a bombastic, symphonic sound or whatever, but you will hear intelligent, creative, powerful music being made by punk bands. Things like celtic punk and punkabilly, and hardcore punk geniuses Refused have already been mentioned, but here are a few modern punk bands that haven't been touched upon yet (I don't think):
First thing of note is "The Decline" by NOFX, which is an 18-minute punk epic. It is musically sound, and I find it to be a great song. Leagues beyond what most people perceive punk music to be. Surely it's not complex like an avant-garde or even symphonic prog song, but it's clearly well-written and highly inspired. Unfortunately NOFX didn't too much music this great, but they did have their share of songs here and there in years past.
There is also a punk band called Propagandhi currently making music who I find to write very good songs on both objective and subjective grounds. They aren't afraid of writing songs over 4-minutes that don't follow formulas at all, and there is solid group interplay, technicality and what not. They also are extremely passionate about their music. Their lyrics are extremely intelligent and meaningful, even if you don't agree with their extreme opinions.
Also, a band called The Lawrence Arms released an album called The Greatest Story Ever Told which is semi-conceptual, as it has recurring themes and motifs. It's well-crafted musically and lyrically.
Then we have a band called A Wilhelm Scream who play a technical kind of punk rock. Strung Out is an earlier example. Fast leads, rhythmic or melodic shifts and so on. Not too much in the way of odd-times or other prog-related attributes, but it's a respectable, forward-thinking output for their genre.
Bear vs. Shark is an experimental, melodic hardcore punk band that put out a couple of great albums. In a sense they took the mantle from At the Drive-In. Angular riffs, quirky rhythms, a variety of sounds, a mathy tinge, very dynamic, etc.
I think Punk rock has evolved nicely, and I think there have been, are, and will be some great bands in the genre. I mean, surely someone looking for the highest caliber musicians and compositions won't find anything here that's remotely near the ranks of classical, jazz or prog rock. It's definitely not "academically legitmate," smooth and/or pleasant to all ears or anything of that sort, but it can be made by truly inspired people, and some even made by talented musicians (as in the cases above).
There is a clip of Billy Idol talking about punk rock at the beginning of Mogwai's album Come on Die Young (the track is titled "punk rock"), and I think it's a very thought-provoking statement for naysayers. Nothing too weighty, but it's hard to argue with it.
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www.last.fm/user/ThisCenotaph
 
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akamaisondufromage
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Posted: June 03 2009 at 11:57 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
Hey punk where you goin with that safety pin through your cheek? |
Mr Bartfast
Yes, me again maisondufromage. I never put a safety pin through my cheek. We just used to cut off a piece of the wire and then slot it over our lip so it just looked like it was through our cheek!
No not that cheek  .
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Help me I'm falling!
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WalterDigsTunes
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 11 2007
Location: SanDiegoTijuana
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Points: 4373
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Posted: June 03 2009 at 12:05 |
Moatilliatta wrote:
There is a clip of Billy Idol talking about punk rock at the beginning of Mogwai's album Come on Die Young (the track is titled "punk rock"), and I think it's a very thought-provoking statement for naysayers. Nothing too weighty, but it's hard to argue with it. |
Billy Idol rules!
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Icarium
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Posted: June 03 2009 at 14:54 |
im a huge fan of the Post-punk band Killing joke they do things musicly unic that few other bands have done. none of there albums sound as the previous... I have 4 albums from this marvelos band 1 Killing joke (self titled debut from 1980) 2 Night Time from 85 a realy dark almoust gothic in feel very good album, not a bad track on this record 3 Pandemonium from 1994 realy good and majestic in sound and killer riffs from Geordie Walker 4 Hoseannas from the basements of Hell  mohahahhah killing joke kikk butt realy and have a minemalistic aproaoch but with a BIG sound and grate arangements and have influenced the hole grunge and hardcore scene all by them self (just ask Dave Grohl, Trent Raznor and Mike Patton) Jaz Coleman is Englands answer of Frank Zappa in terms of creativity.
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Slartibartfast
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Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
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Posted: June 03 2009 at 15:04 |
akamaisondufromage wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:
Hey punk where you goin with that safety pin through your cheek? |
Mr Bartfast
Yes, me again maisondufromage. I never put a safety pin through my cheek. We just used to cut off a piece of the wire and then slot it over our lip so it just looked like it was through our cheek!
No not that cheek . |
Hey, thanks for clearing that up for me.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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AlbertMond
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 27 2008
Location: Namibia
Status: Offline
Points: 139
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Posted: June 04 2009 at 06:49 |
Moatilliatta wrote:
Rant about prog and punk |
Also, I think the 'redskin' punk group Angelic Upstarts is notable as sounding a bit prog-influenced.
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Promotion so blatant that it's sad:
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boo boo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 28 2005
Location: United States
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Points: 905
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Posted: June 04 2009 at 09:15 |
AlbertMond wrote:
boo boo wrote:
Lets stop discrediting bands for having influences, please. If you can find me some King Crimson and Rush that mixes prog with post hardcore influences, then please feel free to share it. |
The thing about that is anybody can make any type of music any time.
The above is a song from 1968. That said, there is NO POSSIBLE WAY that it could have been influenced by the mid-late '80s black metal scene. However, it's safe to assume that -on a larger scale- they did it first. |
I'm sorry about you CAN'T credit King Crimson and Rush for post hardcore.
I know some classic rock purists want to credit to credit 70s classic rock and prog bands for EVERYTHING, and they're really going overboard with it.
Crediting Ritchie Blackmore for punk rock is one of the more ridiculous examples of an argument someone once tried to make.
Edited by boo boo - June 04 2009 at 10:32
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Moogtron III
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Location: Belgium
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Posted: June 04 2009 at 09:52 |
I can never feel what it was like in the seventies.
From what I heard from punks / new wavers, prog rock was so dominating that lots of young musicians couldn't have a place in the music spectrum.Then punk came and changed all that.
So any artist who could play three, or even two chords, suddenly could find an audience. Music was not intellectual anymore, but it was alive. The energy of rock was back. That's what you heard.
Also that prog stars, and people like Rod Stewart, the Rolling Stones and The Who became complacent. And were looking down on punks, being to big for their boots.
Now was it really like that, or was punk The Great Rock 'n' Roll Swindle? Just a way for young people to get heard? I don't know, because back in 1977 I was just moving from Slade and Mud to Queen, so to say.
I like reading interviews with people like Johnny Rotten and Bob Geldof: colourful people (Rotten still is) who made you think things over.
But the music? The Sex Pistols were probably a great live act, not because of the music, but because of the stage presence of Johnny Rotten especially.
Other bands did have some interesting music, like the Clash, who were very open to different kinds of influences.
Punk did provide a fertile ground for new wave, where some of the old punk dogma's were disappearing, like the absence of synths.
But as a musical style, I'm not a big fan of punk, probably never will be. Still, I like the energy of punk, from time to time.
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himtroy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 20 2009
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Posted: June 04 2009 at 15:55 |
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M C 5. Not saying their first, but Ramblin Rose is pretty straight punk and is performed as early as 1967
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