NEW RATING ALGO. AND EDIT RATINGS/REVIEWS OPEN TO - Progressive Rock Music Forum

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Dean

Special Collaborator

Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575

Posted: May 04 2009 at 16:35

Negoba wrote:

Gazpacho's Tick Tock took a pretty significant hit.

Actually, I don't think it's position has changed since yesterday - yesterday 209th with 51 votes, today 209th with 52 votes

(http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=57145&PID=3230572#3230572)

What?

Negoba

Prog Reviewer

Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5210

Posted: May 04 2009 at 16:40

I guess I hadn't been watching since it started to correct itself.

You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.

Gooner

Prog Reviewer

Joined: March 14 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 312

Posted: May 04 2009 at 20:12

Great news! I know I've got a couple of type-os I'd to correct.. Also, it's nice to revisit albums that may have grown on you(or not) and perhaps improve a rating.

The Quiet One View Drop Down

Prog Reviewer

Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 15745

Posted: May 04 2009 at 20:25

^hey! Being a Prog Reviewer you could have edited them too...

manofmystery View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: January 26 2008
Location: PA, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4335

Posted: May 04 2009 at 23:33

M@X wrote:

Sorry can't reproduce, please tell me when it occurs ? review edit, add albums ?

I got the "You account doesn't have the persmission to do this" message when I tried to add a review to an album that I only had a rating for (ironically one that has a rating not by design but because the review didn't go through when I first submitted it). Could be that this particular album just hates me.

Time always wins.

Mandrakeroot View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Italian Prog Specialist

Joined: March 01 2006
Location: San Foca, Friûl
Status: Offline
Points: 5851

Posted: May 05 2009 at 04:03

Although certain aspects of this change are not shared by me, being able to correct the review is quite good.

How to view the reviews of one genre (in member review list), especially for one like me who do not plan the reviews.

Edited by Mandrakeroot - May 05 2009 at 05:00

Rocktopus

Forum Senior Member

Joined: March 02 2006
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 4202

Posted: May 05 2009 at 04:27

Epignosis wrote:

I just find it funny that most of the people with a problem against the weighting system here don't have more than ten reviews.

Or any, in some cases.

Isn't that just extremely logical (as in why bother?)?

Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes
Find a fly and eat his eye
But don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
Don't believe in me

Alberto Muñoz View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: July 26 2006
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 3577

Posted: May 05 2009 at 16:40

Deathrabbit wrote:

Don't listen to Lucent; this is a great improvement.

Seconded!

The Quiet One View Drop Down

Prog Reviewer

Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 15745

Posted: May 05 2009 at 18:44

M@X wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

I noticed something else:
Albums with more than a 4.00 have 5 stars (it was that only albums with a 4.50 or greater had 5 stars).

Yes, and it need 25 ratings to have the LABEL: Essential : A masterpiece of prog rock music and others label too. Below 25 ratings , no label is assigned.

Now we have pretty much more 5 stars and Masterpieces
Before that, there was only 5 masterpieces 5 stars.

Comments ?

I think it was "better" without that rounding system, I mean, seeing a lot of 3 stars albums, rated as 4 and saying they're excellent.

Not a big issue, but I personally preferred it the other way, if it's 3.5, well then, yes it's 4, but not when it's a 3.

Failcore

Forum Senior Member

Joined: October 27 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 4625

Posted: May 05 2009 at 19:05

I think it should be 3.45 rounds to 3.5 rounds to 4. Every thing lower than a X.45 should be bumped down to X. They way it is now, it's essentially ranges. 1 is poor, 1-2 is Collectors/Fans, 2-3 is Good, 3-4 is excellent, 4-5 is masterpiece. Wouldn't be a bad idea except the inability to give a 0 makes a poor rating of an album nearly impossible unless it gets straight 1's. Alos, it kinda shafts the previous reviews that were scored based on the previous system. If we are going to stick with the ranges idea, you should probably lop 0.5 stars off every previous review to make it fair.

Edited by Deathrabbit - May 05 2009 at 19:06

M@X

Forum & Site Admin Group

Co-founder, Admin & Webmaster

Joined: January 29 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 4051

Posted: May 05 2009 at 19:40

I've bring back the old rounding but for the 5 stars, album with 4.25 and up and rounder to 5.

Prog On !

The Quiet One View Drop Down

Prog Reviewer

Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 15745

Posted: May 05 2009 at 19:48

^that seems fair enough for me, thanks for re-considering!

kenethlevine View Drop Down

Special Collaborator

Prog-Folk Team

Joined: December 06 2006
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 9080

Posted: May 06 2009 at 11:55

I like the idea of everyone being able to edit their reviews, and no review ratings all weighting at 1. But I think bumping up members to 5 gives too much weight to anyone who feels like constructing a review of sufficient wordiness to tout their heroes and/or diss their detractors. The latter seems to be happening a lot lately in the guise of substantive reviews. By the time someone has become a reviewer/collaborator/etc, I trust their reviews a lot more than twice as much as a newbie. But I appreciate that many insightful people might want to stay as members at large rather than become reviewers in name, so another idea might be to reward VIP members more than regular members. ie- VIP members reviews weight 6, other members 3

Finnforest View Drop Down

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: February 03 2007
Location: The Heartland
Status: Offline
Points: 17298

Posted: May 06 2009 at 12:23

kenethlevine wrote:

I like the idea of everyone being able to edit their reviews, and no review ratings all weighting at 1. But I think bumping up members to 5 gives too much weight to anyone who feels like constructing a review of sufficient wordiness to tout their heroes and/or diss their detractors. The latter seems to be happening a lot lately in the guise of substantive reviews. By the time someone has become a reviewer/collaborator/etc, I trust their reviews a lot more than twice as much as a newbie. But I appreciate that many insightful people might want to stay as members at large rather than become reviewers in name, so another idea might be to reward VIP members more than regular members. ie- VIP members reviews weight 6, other members 3

Good points, Ken.

...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell"

StyLaZyn

Forum Senior Member

Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079

Posted: May 06 2009 at 12:34

LiquidEternity wrote:

You know what I've discovered that I do recently? I don't look so much at the overall rating, I don't look so much at the reviews, necessarily... I look at the number of reviews per album. If a band has a few albums out and most of them have hardly any response from contributors but one has a large number, I conclude that that one is the place to look. Just thought I'd throw that out.

For the criteria of 5 indicating that it is a must have album, yet only 5 reviews, I see a disconnect. If an album is really that good and has a 4 plus rating, surely more would comment.

LiquidEternity View Drop Down

Prog Reviewer

Joined: December 07 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 900

Posted: May 06 2009 at 12:51

StyLaZyn wrote:

For the criteria of 5 indicating that it is a must have album, yet only 5 reviews, I see a disconnect. If an album is really that good and has a 4 plus rating, surely more would comment.

But there are lots of bands with few ratings that are still great. Take for example Pat Metheny. He doesn't have an album with more than 18 ratings, yet I know he is a fellow worth looking into. So when I look through his discography to see where to start, I don't look for what's rated really high--I look for albums with the largest number of ratings: the albums that have made the biggest splash, either way, in the prog world here. I mean, if such an album is rated really low, I can assume that it's well known for how bad it is. But I when looking into new music, I will check out an album with twenty ratings and a 3.5 long before I check out an album with four ratings and a 4.8. Make sense? The number of reviews also factors into it, too. But I'm not talking about quality here, just about what albums catch my eye when I check out a new act on this site.

For example, to start on Magma, I looked for the album that hit the most places, not the fan favorites (and that one I checked out is, of course, MDK, with a whole lot more reviews than the other ones). I feel like I'm blabbering on and on, sorry. I think it's just silly to assume that "if an album is really that good . . . surely more would comment." There are lots of fantastic albums out there that fewer than five people have reviewed. They're just not the place to start, at least not necessarily.

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557

Posted: May 06 2009 at 12:59

Tony R wrote:

I personally do not trust "Ratings Only" and believe they should carry 1/2 weight if any. That's just my personal opinion though.

I am with Tony on this one, but won't make a deal about it, at the end the charts mean close to nothing to me.

Iván

Mr ProgFreak View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: November 08 2008
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 5195

Posted: May 06 2009 at 13:19

^ makes a lot of sense too, since you're probably not too much into discovering new music. I can only guess what you're listening to though, since you're not using last.fm or any other playlist service.

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557

Posted: May 06 2009 at 13:58

Mr ProgFreak wrote:

^ makes a lot of sense too, since you're probably not too much into discovering new music. I can only guess what you're listening to though, since you're not using last.fm or any other playlist service.

Not much into discovering new music Mike?

For God's sake, I added more than 50 bands last year alone, from various genres, not counting the ones added by the team, including Avant Garde, Heavy Prog, Symphonic, Eclectic, etc.

Prog Metal is not the only new music out there, even if you want to make us believe so, there's plenty new music out there in many genres, there's even old music I bnnever heard before and is unfairly ignored, I don't care for most Prog Metal, but that doesn't make me a retrograde who doesn't care for new music.

Last FM is a good choice for you, I don't care for it, I never read the play lists, because it's designed according to your taste, not mine and say nothing, I don't need to go telling people what I listen or listen a band because it's in your play list

My reviews speak for me and for the people who took their time writing them, and that's the reason why I don't care for ratings alone is because I don't trust them , I don't even know if the person has heard the album or gives a 5 because he loves the band (If you remember a lot of people gave 5 stars ratings to Octavarium when actually were listening a LaBrie album) or one star because the guy hates the band ( http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=23553 the Adms had to clean this page, because the guy had given 5 to Pink Floyd and 1 star to evrything else -Yes, Genesis, etc- without a review).

Reviews speak loud and clear, give me reasons, feelings, reaction to the music and/or lyrics, arguments, etc; ratings alone say nothing to me, and IMO are useless unless you have a site based in ratings mainly, which I don't visit for that same exact reason.

Iván

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - May 06 2009 at 14:10

Epignosis

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32553

Posted: May 06 2009 at 19:28

I noticed that the top 20 of proto-prog and prog-related are no more.

I personally enjoyed and benefited from that top 20 (as I do with the other subgenres); if it's not too big of a deal, I'd like to see those features reimplemented.

https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays