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prog4evr View Drop Down
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Points: 1455 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2009 at 03:51
Originally posted by topofsm topofsm wrote:

 
Anyways, what are some artists that you feel use this technique well?

Fish-era Marillion because of the "Jester" theme.  Now, that is specifically lyrical recurrence.  Musical recurrence is probably most evident in prog bands that have made a "suite" (again, something the classical masters originated).  Off the top of my head, Marillion's Misplaced Childhood and Like Wendy's Falcon Suite fit the bill...
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Points: 734 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2009 at 06:56
Originally posted by Endless Wire Endless Wire wrote:

Good topic, recurring musical ideas is one of my absolute favorite things in music.  Perhaps nobody does it better than Pain of Salvation, though.  Just listen to BE, where practically every other melody can be heard somewhere else in the album but performed in a different way.  These type of things add a lot of lasting value to an album for me.
 
I'm actually experiementing a lot with the concept to a great extent in my own music.
 
its a huge part of the fun in PoS albums. I actually read somewhere something about Gildenlow taking one of the melodies from The Perfect Element: part 1 and turning it  into a chord structure on scarsick (being part two of course) i dont know alot about music theory so i cant verify it, its a fun thought though Smile
'Yeah, thats.. Whatever you're talking about for ya' - Zapp brannigan
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Points: 734 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2009 at 06:58
Originally posted by Endless Wire Endless Wire wrote:

Another band that I just thought of that does it a bit is Coheed and Cambria (and now begins the are they prog debate...).  Though they don't do it extremely often, when they do choose to do it the effect is very striking.  Anybody else notice the C&C motifs?
 
I was just listening to Stardust and could've sworn i heard one of the parts from 'different people' in it, thought i was going crazy from too much of the kings Embarrassed
'Yeah, thats.. Whatever you're talking about for ya' - Zapp brannigan
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Points: 18025 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2009 at 11:50
Originally posted by 30761760 30761760 wrote:

]  Use of repeitition is a major part of musical theory. I also like the idea that it came out of jamming. I often use repitition in a jam to spring into an exploration of the peice we are creating. I know that is at odds with your opinions on 'theme, 4beats, song' concept but i feel that the real problems caused by such songs come from underelaboration. If you strip most songs back you have a repeted theme along with a 4/4 beat. Look at 'locomotive breath', essentially just a relentless bass line which is made more by the awsome piono, lyrics and flute work. Another example is King crimsons '21st centuary scitzoid man' which has a very structured opening theme/riff but degenerates into a free form jazz peice before collecting for a final verse. In fact, most of my favourite songs probably come out of this system of creativity which i enjoy.
 
Thank you ... I replied to the post within a larger context than just one theme ... and you extended it ... and that is great ... and to me awesome.  I appreciate this quite a bit.
 
Repetition has its place, and no one that does ragas (eastern musical concepts ... not western musical concepts) considers it "repetition" since it is not about the "notes" and "scales" as much as it is about how it is being played and brought forth ... which is the important part that really makes music come alive ... up until then, much of it is ... not much ... I certainly do not wish to say "nothing" since there is always something, that we might not see, or readily find.
 
We might as well add that Ravel's Bolero for many years was considered horribly boring! And Debussy dull. And Stravinsky ... not music!
 
You do what you know and feels right ... and it may repeat a theme or not ... and it may have a set of notes that are similar to that one band you used to like ... but within the context it is being played ... this is where some of the law courts are getting out of hand when it comes to plasiarism, and such ... playing the same 5 notes that Pete Townsend did on a song is not a copy .... unless I'm using the same guitar, amp, effects and song!
 
But some themes make a band recognizeable ... and most bands do not change from their start in this respect ... the only band I know that has absolutely nothing in common on the 1st, 5th and 10th album is Amon Duul 2 ... the rest tend to show way too much "copy" of what they already had done.
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Points: 242 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 20 2009 at 23:07
The best example of this that comes to mind is Close to the Edge : "I get up I get down" is repeated in all four sections of the title track, each with a starkly different emotion behind it. 
Life is like a beanstalk... isn't it?
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