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rushfan4 
Special Collaborator
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Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 66264
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 Posted: April 08 2009 at 15:57 |
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I actually know of a bar/restaurant that was burnt down by someone throwing a lit cigarette into the trash. Or at least that is what the cause of the fire was determined to be. Fortunately the fire didn't occur until after hours but....
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micky
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Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
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Points: 46833
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Posted: April 08 2009 at 16:00 |
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ahem.... how many fires caused by a cigarette is too many... that in itself is reason enough to ban them. I'm a power smoker and love my cigarettes.. but I don't have the right.. nor demand it... in where I go. If I can.. I might ... and if I can't.. .I don't raise a fuss about it. Never have...
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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mr.cub
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 06 2009
Location: Lexington, VA
Status: Offline
Points: 971
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Posted: April 08 2009 at 16:06 |
They should look out for flare guns in such environments, that seems to be the cause of more famous fires
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micky
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Joined: October 02 2005
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Points: 46833
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Posted: April 08 2009 at 16:48 |
 mr.cub wrote:
They should look out for flare guns in such environments, that seems to be the cause of more famous fires |
sure they are illegal...with pyrotechnics (what were they thinking in that club  ) but if people ignore them.. what is to stop disasters from happening. People's stupidity is not an excuse though for not looking out for public safety. Smoking is a personal choice.. not a right.. and when it conflicts with public safety.. it should lose every single damn time.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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aapatsos
Special Collaborator
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Joined: November 11 2005
Location: Manchester, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 9226
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Posted: April 08 2009 at 16:52 |
I will try to make a comparison (maybe an odd one): In the UK, it is a criminal offence not to pay a ticket on the bus or train. Should smoking in closed spaces be a criminal offence? for me YES, as you make people to breath your cigarette smoke which has been proven to CAUSE HEALTH PROBLEMS. I don't imply you breath it once, but what if you go to a restaurant or pub very often? Is causing health problems a criminal offence? I will let you decide. Yes, I am stubborn and I will never change my opinion on that 
Edited by aapatsos - April 08 2009 at 16:55
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Gorgo Ourgon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 04 2009
Location: Kobaïa
Status: Offline
Points: 161
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Posted: April 08 2009 at 16:57 |
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I'm all for smoking being banned in public establishments. As a life-long asthma sufferer, I can honestly say that there are few things more frustrating than having to struggle to breath over cigarette smoke. If I had a nickle for every time I had to leave a public establishment because of the smoke level...
Edited by Gorgo Ourgon - April 08 2009 at 16:59
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Trademark
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 21 2006
Location: oHIo
Status: Offline
Points: 1009
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Posted: April 08 2009 at 17:25 |
Where I live the bar owners put up a horrible fuss when the statewide smoking ban went into effect. They were crying about how they'd all go out of business within a week of the ban and that smokers would never go to a bar again.
Well what actually happened (and has happened in in most states where these bans are in effect) is that MORE people now go to the bars than before. Business at the bars is up not down. The smokers still go out, they just have to run outside for a smoke every 4-1/2 minutes. But now the rest of us can, and often do, go as well. Revenues are up BECAUSE of the smoking ban. Before the ban I rarely ever went to bars. Now I can and do go out if there's a good band playing.
Now if we can just get rid of the drunks.....
Edited by Trademark - April 08 2009 at 17:28
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zappaholic
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 24 2006
Location: flyover country
Status: Offline
Points: 2822
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Posted: April 08 2009 at 19:28 |
The following is from one of comedian Auggie Smith's appearances on the Bob & Tom radio show.
AUGGIE: What I'm talking about is freedom, people! Montana represents - you go to California, swear to god, it's against the law to smoke cigarettes in bars and taverns. And yeah I know, smoking's bad for you, but - who's concerned about their health in a BAR? Like what's the complaint on this one? "Excuse me! Mr. Bartender Man! I am trying to get drunk, so I can drive home, and have unprotected sex with some chick I just met tonight, and THIS guy's blowing SMOKE in my face!" You try that in Montana, they'll shoot you with their sixguns! I believe that we should abolish all bar laws in America. I believe that in America, the land of the free, there should be no laws in bars. And if you don't like living under no laws, then don't go to the bar. For example: I don't like Bed Bath & Beyond. I don't like what goes on at Bed Bath & Beyond. So you know what I do about it? That's right! I DON'T GO THERE. You know what I don't do about it, I don't picket Bed Bath & Beyond. I don't put Bed Bath & Beyond in an "Axis Of Evil" with Kitchen Caboodle and the Baby Gap. I don't think Bed Bath & Beyond should have to be 500 yards from the elementary school - I just don't go to Bed Bath & Beyond!
TOM: I like Bed Bath & Beyond, Auggie! I'm a divorced guy, I need them.
AUGGIE: And I'm ok with you going there. And I'm even ok with you smoking there. You know why? Cos I don't go there, it doesn't affect me!
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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." -- H.L. Mencken
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mrcozdude
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 25 2007
Location: Devon,UK.
Status: Offline
Points: 2078
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Posted: April 08 2009 at 19:32 |
micky wrote:
mrcozdude wrote:
I always thought the options of a non smoking sections and smoking section was prefect that is absolutely no reason why that couldn't work.Bars I used to go to smell absolutely foul of beer farts and urinals.
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the best still have blood stains on the floor as well.... pool tables with customers like the Harley dude who slaps you on the back after a great bank shot saying....'great shot.... I just got out of the pen' (true story.. on a first date hahha)
now those are bars... and really.. just who is going to tell him that you aren't going to smoke. Surely not the bartender wearing the eye-patch with cigarette dangling from her lips...
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sounds like my kind of place.  In all seriousness though whatever your view,it does make wonder what other rules & restrictions the government will enforce.I have a feeling cigarettes will be the last thing to complain about soon.
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Atkingani
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: October 21 2005
Location: Terra Brasilis
Status: Offline
Points: 12288
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Posted: April 08 2009 at 19:39 |
WaywardSon wrote:
Today,A new law was passed : it is now a criminal offence to light up a ciggarette in a bar or club in Sao Paulo-Brazil.
As an ex smoker I am quite happy about this because I won´t be tempted to smoke.
How do you feel about smoking in bars/clubs? |
Paulistas are always copying us from Rio... it's been a law here for centuries.  
I'm smoker but I'm so used with this law that I don't care anymore but anyway you can smoke in external parts of the bars (those who have tables on the pavement too). 
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Guigo
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micky
Special Collaborator
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Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
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Posted: April 08 2009 at 19:42 |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: April 08 2009 at 19:54 |
micky wrote:
you rights end where another's rights begin.
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So does the owner of the bar really not get a say in this? This is a no-win argument if you proclaim to be on the side of individual rights.
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: April 08 2009 at 20:04 |
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Here's my hierarchy of rights for this situation:
1) The bar owner's right to run the bar as he likes, provided it doesn't hurt other businesses or violate laws regarding clean water, electricity setup, etc.
2) The rights of the patrons of the bar, who choose voluntarily to enter it.
Skipping past 1 to protect 2 is unreasonable and illogical.
Of course, I try to operate my mind on a strict diet of common sense, so I might have trouble morphing my observations to the sad reality of our nanny state.
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micky
Special Collaborator
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Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
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Posted: April 08 2009 at 20:11 |
stonebeard wrote:
micky wrote:
you rights end where another's rights begin.
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So does the owner of the bar really not get a say in this?
This is a no-win argument if you proclaim to be on the side of individual rights.
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individual rights?...christ almighty.... show where I have the RIGHT to smoke cigarettes in a public place and possibly affect the health of others. What about their rights to go into a place of THEIR choosing and not have to be exposed to something that DOES affect your health.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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jammun
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 14 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3449
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Posted: April 08 2009 at 20:16 |
In my state there are full bans in effect, except for the tribal casinos where the state has no jurisdiction. I myself no longer go to bars that often, nor smoke for that matter, so it does not affect me one way or the other. But those casinos are sure doing a bang up business with the smokers around here, which I assume is causing some financial pain for the bar owners. The tribes have it figured out: you buy a few beers, drop a few twenties in the slots, and smoke all you like. Ka-ching!
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Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.
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Finnforest
Special Collaborator
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Joined: February 03 2007
Location: The Heartland
Status: Offline
Points: 16913
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Posted: April 08 2009 at 20:16 |
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Bars and clubs (ie, no children)......i vote no. Oppose the ban. Should be up to the bar owner.
If its a place where children are allowed, I'd tend to support the ban for those kinds of places.
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memowakeman
Special Collaborator
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Joined: May 19 2005
Location: Mexico City
Status: Offline
Points: 13032
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Posted: April 08 2009 at 20:20 |
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i don't smoke, so for me it's fine a no smoking law in bars and clubs
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Follow me on twitter @memowakeman
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jammun
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 14 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3449
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Posted: April 08 2009 at 20:21 |
micky wrote:
mrcozdude wrote:
I always thought the options of a non smoking sections and smoking section was prefect that is absolutely no reason why that couldn't work.Bars I used to go to smell absolutely foul of beer farts and urinals. |
the best still have blood stains on the floor as well.... pool tables with customers like the Harley dude who slaps you on the back after a great bank shot saying....'great shot.... I just got out of the pen' (true story.. on a first date hahha)
now those are bars... and really.. just who is going to tell him that you aren't going to smoke. Surely not the bartender wearing the eye-patch with cigarette dangling from her lips...
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The best bars, at least when I was much younger, were the ones with a two-three inch layer of sawdust on the floor, to soak up the frequent beer puke and occasional blood 
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Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: April 08 2009 at 20:25 |
micky wrote:
stonebeard wrote:
micky wrote:
you rights end where another's rights begin.
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So does the owner of the bar really not get a say in this?
This is a no-win argument if you proclaim to be on the side of individual rights.
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individual rights?...christ almighty.... show where I have the RIGHT to smoke cigarettes in a public place and possibly affect the health of others. What about their rights to go into a place of THEIR choosing and not have to be exposed to something that DOES affect your health.
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Well, I think they'd want to respect the "market tradition" of the USA and participate in the natural selection of bars. Have some bars be smoking and some nonsmoking. If people really care enough, the smoking bars should be driven out of business. At that point, I think the smoking bar owners would get the hint it's not good for business to remain smoking and would change voluntarily. Again, if people care enough, the market will decide. *chuckle* At least this is what any red-blooded American patriot would do, if they believed at all in liberty and a free market. But I guess they don't. Just because the bar is in downtown and "in public" does not mean it isn't still privately run. And since bar owners can be selective in who they let in, there is no right for the public to be in every bar. Therefore, it's plainly obvious to me that the right of the owner to run his bar supersedes the right of clients to demand certain policies from that owner. The point of the situation: Don't like it, start a new bar and compete. Or, cry about it to the government and have them force laws like this on private establishments.
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micky
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Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
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Posted: April 08 2009 at 20:26 |
I remember a place like that in Colorado up in the Rockies near Colorado Springs...it was my first experience with sawdust floors ... I just fell in love with the place 
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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No Smoking in Bars/Clubs?
