No Smoking in Bars/Clubs?
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Topic: No Smoking in Bars/Clubs?
Posted By: WaywardSon
Subject: No Smoking in Bars/Clubs?
Date Posted: April 08 2009 at 14:37
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Today,A new law was passed : it is now a criminal offence to light up a ciggarette in a bar or club in Sao Paulo-Brazil. As an ex smoker I am quite happy about this because I won“t be tempted to smoke.
How do you feel about smoking in bars/clubs?
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Replies:
Posted By: Drew
Date Posted: April 08 2009 at 14:41
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I like it Been law in California for years now- and I can't see it any other way. Second hand smoke has proven to be deadly, so it should be that way. ------------- |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: April 08 2009 at 14:43
| A criminal offence means you'll be sent to jail if you smoke? As much as I hate smoking, I think it's a bit excessive - unless it is motivated by safety reasons (clubs being often prone to fires). On the other hand, in Italy smoking has been banned from most public places, including offices and such - though of course there are people who disregard the ban. |
Posted By: MovingPictures07
Date Posted: April 08 2009 at 14:48
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I think it's ridiculous. I would never be a smoker, but there is nothing good out of this, especially for businesses. If you don't like clubs or bars that feature smoking heavily, then don't go there. It should be up to businesses whether they want to feature non-smoking sections or an entirely non-smoking business. If enough people REALLY want a non-smoking bar, an entrepreneur or business owner will jump on the opportunity to make money off of it, and thus will voluntarily choose it. No need for the government to elevate this to a criminal offense. ------------- 
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Posted By: WaywardSon
Date Posted: April 08 2009 at 14:48
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What I meant to say is there is a hefty fine if you are caught smoking.
I have stopped for just over 3 months and still feel very tempted to light up when drinking (or being around other smokers)
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Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: April 08 2009 at 14:50
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I favor a smoking ban in restaurants Not in bars, clubs, and lounges. That's pushing it too far. (I've lived both in NC, the tobacco capital of the US and here in FL, that has a ban in place). ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: MovingPictures07
Date Posted: April 08 2009 at 14:57
Not to come across as rude or condescending, because I recognize how awful trying to quit smoking really is (my father used to smoke), but I think it's pretty selfish to force businesses to ban all smoking just because you don't want to feel pressured about it or surrounded with it. When do we let our preferences come in the line with others' same freedoms? What boggles my mind is that people have choices not to be surrounded by it, yet they insist of ripping the freedom of smoking from everywhere except in one's own house/car or ONLY on private property (just you wait though--eventually there will be people pushing for a complete ban of tobacco altogether, mark my words) simply so that they don't have to be around it. Adults are adults--they can make decisions, and if they choose to smoke or constantly surround themselves with secondhand smoke, they are adult enough to recognize the consequences and have that choice. It's a much different matter to directly harm someone else. -------------
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WaywardSon wrote:Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: April 08 2009 at 15:05
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100% no. It should be the decision of the bar owners. They'll take a hit in customers no matter what way they choose (either smokers leaving or non-smokers leaving), and the burden should be on them to make the decision for the atmosphere of the bar, not the health of hypothetical people. In all honesty the crimes against free choice committed in the name of health is the unsung disaster, and it speaks volumes of the hypocrisy of Americans who are supposed to stand for freedom of choice, but when it comes down to an act most people dislike, they flake on their flimsy moral background. Democrats, at least, have the platform of being nannies, so it's not unexpected from them. Yet it's often the prudish, supposedly moral Republican who come out against smoking, and thus just making another notch in the hypocrisy bedpost by abandoning the Randian ideals they like to verbally masturbate over when the political climate suits their devious plans (ie. now). Full disclosure: I smoke a pipe, hookah, and sometimes self- rolled cigarettes. An even bigger crime than the bar issue is the recent tax increase on tobacco, which is disgustingly high. And yet, most people don't care that it's the government's sick way of imposing behavior on its people. It all infuriates me, more as a champion of decency and freedom than an occasional smoker. Rant over...until someone responds.  ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: mrcozdude
Date Posted: April 08 2009 at 15:11
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I always thought the options of a non smoking sections and smoking section was prefect that is absolutely no reason why that couldn't work.Bars I used to go to smell absolutely foul of beer farts and urinals.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/cozfunkel/" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: horsewithteeth11
Date Posted: April 08 2009 at 15:14
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I was going to rant as well, but Alex and Stoney pretty much said what I was going to say. ------------- 
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 08 2009 at 15:20
the best still have blood stains on the floor as well.... pool tables with customers like the Harley dude who slaps you on the back after a great bank shot saying....'great shot.... I just got out of the pen' (true story.. on a first date hahha) now those are bars... and really.. just who is going to tell him that you aren't going to smoke. Surely not the bartender wearing the eye-patch with cigarette dangling from her lips... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: MovingPictures07
Date Posted: April 08 2009 at 15:21
I don't smoke or use drugs and I never plan on smoking or using drugs, but this is very well-said and I'm glad to see another person who agrees with me on this.  -------------
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: April 08 2009 at 15:25
| Has any of you, before launching into a rant against the 'nanny government', thought about the possible connection between the ban on smoking and the danger of fire in those places? In many countries clubs are situated underground, and fires have been known to break out and kill many people. I think that a destructive fire, with loss of lives, would cost a bar or club owner much more than having smoking banned on the premises... But then, what do I know? |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: April 08 2009 at 15:34
 ------------- 
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Posted By: MovingPictures07
Date Posted: April 08 2009 at 15:35
More fires are caused by electricity than by smoking. Should we ban that too because it puts people in danger of massive fires? -------------
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Posted By: MovingPictures07
Date Posted: April 08 2009 at 15:36
It has no baring on my beliefs.  -------------
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: April 08 2009 at 15:37
If that were the case, then it seems more reasonable to solve the issue with ordinances and inspections of individual bars, not statewide bans that would effect bars that have no problem. I also wonder if said fire hazard bars ban flaming shots and whatnot. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: April 08 2009 at 15:46
Show me a bar or club with nonsmoking, and I'll show you a church. No offense, but if I want to go see my favorite prog band play live I am going to have to do so by going to a bar or club. Yeah I may be an idiot for choosing to do so because I am exposing my lungs to secondhand smoke but my ears really want to be exposed to the live music of said prog bands. -------------
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Posted By: mr.cub
Date Posted: April 08 2009 at 15:48
That is the obvious reason for the smoking ban. On one end I think it is necessary for places like TGI Fridays or Ruby Tuesday, but I have to agree that it should rest in the hands of the club owners. Most of them would proablby look at current trends and realize that this may be a more beneficial business decision. Frankly if you want to smoke, just go outside for 10 minutes and come back in- it really isn't that big of a problem. You don't need to like such laws, but they are in place for good reasons. Its not as if a club owner is going to lose business because smoking is prohibited there. I'm all for the idea of no smoking in bars and clubs but feel club owners are the ones who should decide ------------- 
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Posted By: TheCaptain
Date Posted: April 08 2009 at 15:55
No disrespect of course but I'm not entirely sure a smoking ban decreases the chance of a fire in a bar. I admit I have never been in a bar nor do I smoke and cannot attest to this from first-hand experience. I imagine that flaming shots are more responsible for bar fires than someone lighting up. Smokers know how light cigarettes. Unless they are completely trashed, but I believe it's the responsibility of the bartenders to cut off a person before they get to that point. I'd like someone to elaborate on a likely scenario that starts with someone hankering for a cigarette and ends in a bar fire. To answer the actual question, I agree with Alex and stonebeard. ------------- Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal. |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: April 08 2009 at 15:57
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I actually know of a bar/restaurant that was burnt down by someone throwing a lit cigarette into the trash. Or at least that is what the cause of the fire was determined to be. Fortunately the fire didn't occur until after hours but.... -------------
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 08 2009 at 16:00
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ahem.... how many fires caused by a cigarette is too many... that in itself is reason enough to ban them. I'm a power smoker and love my cigarettes.. but I don't have the right.. nor demand it... in where I go. If I can.. I might ... and if I can't.. .I don't raise a fuss about it. Never have...
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: mr.cub
Date Posted: April 08 2009 at 16:06
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They should look out for flare guns in such environments, that seems to be the cause of more famous fires -------------
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 08 2009 at 16:48
sure they are illegal...with pyrotechnics (what were they thinking in that club  ) but if people ignore them.. what is to stop disasters from happening. People's stupidity is not an excuse though for not looking out for public safety. Smoking is a personal choice.. not a right.. and when it conflicts with public safety.. it should lose every single damn time. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: April 08 2009 at 16:52
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I will try to make a comparison (maybe an odd one): In the UK, it is a criminal offence not to pay a ticket on the bus or train. Should smoking in closed spaces be a criminal offence? for me YES, as you make people to breath your cigarette smoke which has been proven to CAUSE HEALTH PROBLEMS. I don't imply you breath it once, but what if you go to a restaurant or pub very often? Is causing health problems a criminal offence? I will let you decide. Yes, I am stubborn and I will never change my opinion on that  |
Posted By: Gorgo Ourgon
Date Posted: April 08 2009 at 16:57
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I'm all for smoking being banned in public establishments. As a life-long asthma sufferer, I can honestly say that there are few things more frustrating than having to struggle to breath over cigarette smoke. If I had a nickle for every time I had to leave a public establishment because of the smoke level... ------------- 
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Posted By: Trademark
Date Posted: April 08 2009 at 17:25
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Where I live the bar owners put up a horrible fuss when the statewide smoking ban went into effect. They were crying about how they'd all go out of business within a week of the ban and that smokers would never go to a bar again. Well what actually happened (and has happened in in most states where these bans are in effect) is that MORE people now go to the bars than before. Business at the bars is up not down. The smokers still go out, they just have to run outside for a smoke every 4-1/2 minutes. But now the rest of us can, and often do, go as well. Revenues are up BECAUSE of the smoking ban. Before the ban I rarely ever went to bars. Now I can and do go out if there's a good band playing. Now if we can just get rid of the drunks.....
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Posted By: zappaholic
Date Posted: April 08 2009 at 19:28
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The following is from one of comedian Auggie Smith's appearances on the Bob & Tom radio show.
AUGGIE: What I'm talking about is freedom, people! Montana represents - you go to California, swear to god, it's against the law to smoke cigarettes in bars and taverns. And yeah I know, smoking's bad for you, but - who's concerned about their health in a BAR? Like what's the complaint on this one? "Excuse me! Mr. Bartender Man! I am trying to get drunk, so I can drive home, and have unprotected sex with some chick I just met tonight, and THIS guy's blowing SMOKE in my face!" You try that in Montana, they'll shoot you with their sixguns! I believe that we should abolish all bar laws in America. I believe that in America, the land of the free, there should be no laws in bars. And if you don't like living under no laws, then don't go to the bar. For example: I don't like Bed Bath & Beyond. I don't like what goes on at Bed Bath & Beyond. So you know what I do about it? That's right! I DON'T GO THERE. You know what I don't do about it, I don't picket Bed Bath & Beyond. I don't put Bed Bath & Beyond in an "Axis Of Evil" with Kitchen Caboodle and the Baby Gap. I don't think Bed Bath & Beyond should have to be 500 yards from the elementary school - I just don't go to Bed Bath & Beyond!
TOM: I like Bed Bath & Beyond, Auggie! I'm a divorced guy, I need them.
AUGGIE: And I'm ok with you going there. And I'm even ok with you smoking there. You know why? Cos I don't go there, it doesn't affect me!
------------- "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." -- H.L. Mencken |
Posted By: mrcozdude
Date Posted: April 08 2009 at 19:32
sounds like my kind of place.  In all seriousness though whatever your view,it does make wonder what other rules & restrictions the government will enforce.I have a feeling cigarettes will be the last thing to complain about soon. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/cozfunkel/" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: April 08 2009 at 19:39
Paulistas are always copying us from Rio... it's been a law here for centuries.
  I'm smoker but I'm so used with this law that I don't care anymore but anyway you can smoke in external parts of the bars (those who have tables on the pavement too).  ------------- Guigo ~~~~~~ |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 08 2009 at 19:42
if ever in Stillwater Oklahoma... check out The Blue Room... classic 'bar' where you have to watch your back or get a knife in it. Great place for a first date....Micky style Not sure why... but always loved those kind of places.as far as laws and restrictions... I think public safety is a primary function OF government. Of course there is taking it too far.. but keeping on topic here. Restricting smoking in public places... no.. that isn't taking too far..and I believe only the most militant smoker would be against it. If at a bar... you step outside.. no problem. As Raff says.. and I couldn't agree more.... you rights end where another's rights begin. People I think tend to forget that... look that people that bitch about free speech here in internet forums. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: April 08 2009 at 19:54
So does the owner of the bar really not get a say in this? This is a no-win argument if you proclaim to be on the side of individual rights. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: April 08 2009 at 20:04
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Here's my hierarchy of rights for this situation: 1) The bar owner's right to run the bar as he likes, provided it doesn't hurt other businesses or violate laws regarding clean water, electricity setup, etc. 2) The rights of the patrons of the bar, who choose voluntarily to enter it. Skipping past 1 to protect 2 is unreasonable and illogical. Of course, I try to operate my mind on a strict diet of common sense, so I might have trouble morphing my observations to the sad reality of our nanny state. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 08 2009 at 20:11
individual rights?...christ almighty.... show where I have the RIGHT to smoke cigarettes in a public place and possibly affect the health of others. What about their rights to go into a place of THEIR choosing and not have to be exposed to something that DOES affect your health. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: April 08 2009 at 20:16
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In my state there are full bans in effect, except for the tribal casinos where the state has no jurisdiction. I myself no longer go to bars that often, nor smoke for that matter, so it does not affect me one way or the other. But those casinos are sure doing a bang up business with the smokers around here, which I assume is causing some financial pain for the bar owners. The tribes have it figured out: you buy a few beers, drop a few twenties in the slots, and smoke all you like. Ka-ching! ------------- Can you tell me where we're headin'? Lincoln County Road or Armageddon. |
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: April 08 2009 at 20:16
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Bars and clubs (ie, no children)......i vote no. Oppose the ban. Should be up to the bar owner. If its a place where children are allowed, I'd tend to support the ban for those kinds of places. |
Posted By: memowakeman
Date Posted: April 08 2009 at 20:20
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i don't smoke, so for me it's fine a no smoking law in bars and clubs ------------- Follow me on twitter @memowakeman |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: April 08 2009 at 20:21
The best bars, at least when I was much younger, were the ones with a two-three inch layer of sawdust on the floor, to soak up the frequent beer puke and occasional blood ------------- Can you tell me where we're headin'? Lincoln County Road or Armageddon. |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: April 08 2009 at 20:25
Well, I think they'd want to respect the "market tradition" of the USA and participate in the natural selection of bars. Have some bars be smoking and some nonsmoking. If people really care enough, the smoking bars should be driven out of business. At that point, I think the smoking bar owners would get the hint it's not good for business to remain smoking and would change voluntarily. Again, if people care enough, the market will decide. *chuckle* At least this is what any red-blooded American patriot would do, if they believed at all in liberty and a free market. But I guess they don't. Just because the bar is in downtown and "in public" does not mean it isn't still privately run. And since bar owners can be selective in who they let in, there is no right for the public to be in every bar. Therefore, it's plainly obvious to me that the right of the owner to run his bar supersedes the right of clients to demand certain policies from that owner. The point of the situation: Don't like it, start a new bar and compete. Or, cry about it to the government and have them force laws like this on private establishments. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 08 2009 at 20:26
I remember a place like that in Colorado up in the Rockies near Colorado Springs...it was my first experience with sawdust floors ... I just fell in love with the place 
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: April 08 2009 at 20:35
It was very common in Colorado during the early-70's. Give 'em credit for knowing their customers ------------- Can you tell me where we're headin'? Lincoln County Road or Armageddon. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 08 2009 at 20:54
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I don't want other people breathing in my secondhand smoke, damn it cigarettes are £5.50 a pack - buy your own you tight-fisted skinflints. In the old days the standard repost to "do you mind if I smoke?" was "do you mind if I fart?" - okay fair dues - I can't smoke in a bar - I've kept my side of the bargain so now will all the sanctimonious non-smokers stop farting in public places... that's not a request - the next person to break-wind in my presence leaves by the nearest window. It would also be appreciated if they bought deodorant now that the air is clear enough to smell their rank body odour - and yes Mr "My-Body-is-a-Temple", it really is necessary to shower before stopping off at the Pub for a swift pint on the way home from the gym.
 And see that table outside, the one under the moth-eaten garden-parasol near the single propane outdoor heater that's never got any gas in it - that's now mine - so come Summer all you non-smokers can just f
 k-off if you even think about sitting there during the brief break in the rain to sup your half of bloody lager and eat your poor excuse for a bar-snack - I staked my claim to that crappy square yard of shelter through-out winter, through the sleet and snow, in temperatures below freezing when arctic gales ravaged the land and four layers of clothing failed to prevent hypothermia. While you were all snug and dry in the bar, laughing at us poor smokers huddling together for warmth and protection, you lost the right to use those outdoor facilities - the next self-righteous person say "We're eating here!" in a maner that I deem to be even remotely indignant gets the contents of the butt-bin dumped into the middle of their Burger and Fries.  Come to think of it - all outdoor spaces belong to me - if you are going to eat or drink outside I will sit next to you and light-up - I may even take up cigars just for the occasion.
 ------------- What? |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: April 08 2009 at 20:58
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I have no problems with smoking as long as there is good ventilation, if there isn't you're basically sucking the oxygen out of the room that others need. Smokers can go outside otherwise. Don't you need some good air in your lungs with that smoke? I'm having a little deja vu about this thread being done before. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: April 09 2009 at 10:17
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Ban-creep has already begun here. We have people advocating for *outdoor* smoking bans. They want no smoking at the Beach, outside the building, at the public parks, etc. Zealotry comes into it after a while.
They want to ban smoking in your car if you have kids, they want to ban it in your home if you live in an apartment. Perhaps the last two are worthy of discussion, but the outdoor bans are just plain hostilily by the anti-smoking lobby.
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Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: April 09 2009 at 10:28
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We've had it here in Wales for a couple of years. It hasn't reduced smoking levels that much, but it most certainly has reduced trade in local pubs, many of whom were struggling to stay in business without this bit of "help" from the nanny state.
------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: April 09 2009 at 10:34
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Of course I don't agree. I don't agree for two reasons: one, it makes outcasts out of smokers (I quit a while ago but I know how it is). It forces them to become second-class persons in certain situations.. ridiculous... Especially in bars where no minor is allowed... at least there should be an area in every bar.... The second reason is because is one step closer to banning smoking altogether.. which is a step backwards in terms of freedom... if people so want to, they should be able to do whatever they wanmt with their lifes... instead of legalizing things we continue to prohibit them... ------------- 
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 09 2009 at 10:42
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If the UK is going to become the 51st State then I want us to adopt all America's loony laws ... I want guns. Lots of them. Like a great big semi-automatic one with a kick like a mule that can take out a Toyota Landcruiser at 500 paces. With laser sights.
If I'm going to suffer nicotine deprivation it's only fair that I'm permitted some other form of stress relief.  ------------- What? |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: April 09 2009 at 10:48
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Nah don't agree with the ban. I smoke 180 cigarettes a day, I'd die if I had to wait long enough to get to outside area of the bar. *Harry actually quit smoking a few months ago and is wondering who will notice this white text and will realize I wasn't being serious about smoking 180 a day* ------------- 
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Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: April 09 2009 at 10:51
^I noticed!!
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Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: April 09 2009 at 11:05
 ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm 
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Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: April 09 2009 at 11:06
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dammit i just noticed the white text
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm
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Posted By: Mikerinos
Date Posted: April 09 2009 at 11:09
Yeah I agree. I don't smoke cigarettes or like them, but in college I have half my friends blowing smoke in my face all the time I've stopped letting the smell bother me. As long as the smoking and non-smoking sections are divided, I think it should be allowed if the business wants it to. ------------- 
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Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: April 09 2009 at 11:13
Speaking as a smoker myself:
Although I have to say, it's quite nice that my shirt doesn't smell like an ashtray the morning after a night in the pub... and I do tend to smoke less than I did back in the days pre-prohibition. 
Having said that though - pubs don't smell like pubs anymore - they just smell of old beer, armpits & stale farts - it's worse than the House Of Commons! ------------- 
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: April 09 2009 at 11:20
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What's next? Banning smoking in strip clubs? Banning crack in crack houses? -------------
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: April 09 2009 at 11:29
Yes, I knew I'd nail at least one person -------------
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Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: April 09 2009 at 12:25
Dean, you made my day!!! ------------- Guigo ~~~~~~ |
Posted By: Man Erg
Date Posted: April 09 2009 at 12:36
The way that the world's going they'll ban the crack in your a*se soon ------------- 
Do 'The Stanley' otherwise I'll thrash you with some rhubarb. |
Posted By: crimhead
Date Posted: April 09 2009 at 12:49
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I have no problem with people smoking but I never understood what the connection with drinking in a bar and having to smoke is. |
Posted By: The Doctor
Date Posted: April 09 2009 at 12:53
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I'm all for a ban of non-smokers. Keep em out of the damn pubs I say, and the schools and restaurants too. Always stinking up the place with their fresh air. I'm a little tired of hearing about the second hand smoke thing. If you lock someone in a small room with a smoker for 30 years, the chances of them getting cancer is pretty high. But random encounters are not going to cause cancer. And if second hand smoke really causes more deaths than first hand smoke, should I be punished for obviously making the right choice?  ------------- I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you? |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: April 09 2009 at 13:01
Isn't smoking in an establishment with sawdust floors a severe fire hazard? Just asking.  ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Trademark
Date Posted: April 09 2009 at 13:27
| Gee, for once the internet is just like real life. The smokers are loud, boorish and annoying. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 09 2009 at 13:33
you betcha  ------------- What? |
Posted By: The Doctor
Date Posted: April 09 2009 at 13:34
What? Did you run out of metal bands and fans to attack? ------------- I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you? |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: April 09 2009 at 14:30
Attacking bands wasn't personal enough. Straight onto people now. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: April 09 2009 at 14:31
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Hey, like I got no problem with smoking as long as you don't exhale.
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Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: April 09 2009 at 14:48
The sawdust tends to become quite damp as the evening wears on -- we're talking bars in college towns here -- thus negating any fire hazard ------------- Can you tell me where we're headin'? Lincoln County Road or Armageddon. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: April 09 2009 at 15:17
Yes? Damp with what? Alcohol I presume? |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: April 09 2009 at 15:35
Specifically? Slightly used -- or should I say pre-owned? -- Coors 3.2% beer was generally the moistener of choice. I know I left more than a few pitchers of same on those floors  ------------- Can you tell me where we're headin'? Lincoln County Road or Armageddon. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: April 09 2009 at 15:57
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Come to think of it beer's not all that flammable.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: limeyrob
Date Posted: April 09 2009 at 16:18
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I have to say that I find the results of the smoking ban quite amusing in one way and typical of smokers in another.
On a wet, cold and windy winter's day you see groups of smokers congregating in the allocated smoking areas freezing their preverbials off whilst getting their fix. It is almost worth the constant aggro management face with the extra time off smokers get to have their fix. Where I used to work there were no tea breaks as such but workers could grab a brew and consume at their desks.
On the other hand every time I go into town you have to face the clouds of smoke outside office building entrances because smokers just don't seem to twig that their habit is a filthy one and people just don't want to inhale their smoke.
Public areas are now so much nicer though I wish the smoking b
ds would pick up their fag ends. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 09 2009 at 16:35
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We're not allowed within 3m of a building entrance - I suggest you attempt to advise us of that at sometime, other than that we tend to congregate in whatever shelter we can find that isn't enclosed on three sides, because that is regarded as being "inside" as far as the law is concerned, avoiding those areas shouldn't present too much difficulty.
Fag ends are biodegradable and my ashtray isn't weatherproof - I stopped caring on the 1st July 2007 ------------- What? |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: April 09 2009 at 16:39
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I believe that we are really seeing the Darq side of Dean come out in this thread. -------------
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 09 2009 at 16:58
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The office I work in has been voluntarily smoke-free for 20 years, I've never smoked while people near me are eating, nor have I consciously smoked near infants and small children; until the ban I never smoked in the car and still don't if I have passengers - I don't need a two-bit law to tell me to behave responsibly, but now we have one I fully intend to be as irresponsible as the law permits and the more draconian that law becomes the more antisocial I shall become. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: April 09 2009 at 17:13
Seriously, at weekends if I was out on the beer until 3 or 4 in the morning I could smoke 120 - 160 cigs in a day. Fortunately I gave up 10 yrs ago... |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: April 09 2009 at 17:19
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^Geezus. To me, even 20 a day is heaps, let alone 120-160 in the space of a day. I don't think I've ever met anyone, at least not in real life, that has smoked that much in a day. -------------
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 09 2009 at 18:06
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yowsers...even at my worst... it was only 3 packs a day..
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Garion81
Date Posted: April 09 2009 at 19:06
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The laws in California were constructed under the safety in workplace laws not as a customer preference. A bartender or waitress who works a long shift with basically no break in people smoking were the ones who actually were the focus of such laws. I wonder how you would feel if you were exposed to noxious fumes or smoke in your workplace not of your own making?
I like not smoking in bars and I liked it when I was smoking.
------------- 
"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 09 2009 at 20:12
As a result of the smoking ban, the EU now wants to ban these:
 Yay! And since we don't really need them let's ban these too:
 ------------- What? |
Posted By: Alitare
Date Posted: April 09 2009 at 20:46
| I don't agree or disagree. I don't smoke, and don't care if other people smoke, so It doesn't affect me too much. |
Posted By: cobb2
Date Posted: April 09 2009 at 21:18
Wow- I'm flabbergasted with that last statement. Perhaps that's one of the tags they should add on cigarette packets- it might frighten us more than the medical warnings.
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Posted By: BroSpence
Date Posted: April 09 2009 at 22:11
| I think its nice to be able to breathe and still smell relatively well when at or leaving a club, but its unfortunate for those that enjoy smoking. Although, its a terrible habit so I also don't really care so much either. I live in VA though so nothings going to change here since its tobacco land, and D.C. is nearby so I get both worlds. |
Posted By: el dingo
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 02:55
Yep! You got it!,
I smoke about 30 roley-rolls a day but: never in the car, never near mine or anyone else's kids, never when anyone is eating and only in one room in the house - the front room. Mrs Dingo has given up so I quite happily dive into the greenhouse to smoke while at her house.
Last summer we went to the smoking hut at my local to find... two women, six kids and the kids were eating while the stupid women were smoking... AT OUR OUTSIDE SMOKING TABLE
 I don't give a toss if I have to go outside the pub to smoke. Fine. What I hate is the filthy looks you get from some people when they walk past when I'M OBEYING THE RUDDY LAW.
To make it worse you can't smoke at football. Fair enough, but you can't get out for a fag at half time. Why? Don't the doors unlock?
They've got it right in France and Spain: Accept the law, then quietly ignore it. A bar I use in Palma actually has a sign up saying: You are welcome to smoke at the bar.
I have every sympathy and have always made every consideration for people who don't smoke - I gave up for 10 years 'cos my first kid was born but started again like a pr"t so I know what it's like. But don't make me go around ringing a bell whilst yelling unclean - I've already painted the Plague Sign on the front door ------------- It's not that I can't find worth in anything, it's just that I can't find worth in enough. |
Posted By: el dingo
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 03:09
------------- It's not that I can't find worth in anything, it's just that I can't find worth in enough. |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 07:59
| While I do agree that it is totally unnecessary to treat those who smoke outside as lepers, I disagree with 'accepting the law, then ignoring it'. In Italy it is forbidden to smoke in workplaces, yet in the office where I worked last at least three of my colleagues smoked in their room, without heeding the possible dangers (offices are full of papers and electrical equipment), or the fact that the smoke was a nuisance to other people. I often wear contact lenses, and smoke irritates my already sensitive eyes - not to mention that, if I happen to have a cold, even the mere smell is enough to get me coughing hard. I may not care a fig if, by smoking, you endanger your own health - it's your life, after all - but I don't see why you have to cause me any discomfort. |
Posted By: el dingo
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 08:21
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^
That's a very valid point - no smoker should inconvenience non-smokers and to work in an office full of smoke is disgusting, to my certain experience - and I'm a smoker!
I think what I meant about flouting the law is that some countries tend to take some aspects of the law in different ways to the good old UK - we just bow down to a whole series of petty laws. The smoking regulations are not petty and i adhere to them 100 per cent, as I said previously. I guess what annoys a lot of us in the UK is that sometimes the authorities tend to be keener to deal with (very) minor traffic offences and breaches of council regulations than more serious crimes.
As a smoker I guess I just find it a bit of a naughty bonus to light up every time I'm in Spain - yet I would never smoke in a food area, which many Spaniards still do. Ther's even dedicated smoking rooms at Palma airport - unheard of in the UK - though you'd have to have a death wish to stay in one for more than 30 seconds!
------------- It's not that I can't find worth in anything, it's just that I can't find worth in enough. |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 08:47
I can very much sympathise with the bolded part. It's like, you get thrown into jail for stealing an apple, but not for robbing a bank (or the whole citizenship ...). |
Posted By: el dingo
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 08:52
That's exactly it
 And that's probably exactly why I love the signature of someone on PA (sorry don't remember who) which goes something like~
It's not half as much a crime to rob a bank as it is to found one! ------------- It's not that I can't find worth in anything, it's just that I can't find worth in enough. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 09:05
they don't have designated smoking areas at Heathrow??....I thought they did... well hopefully they did hahah. I remember firing up many a Winston on my trips through there after flying across the ocean 
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: el dingo
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 09:21
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Heathrow ??? - you can't smoke in an open-sided bus shelter here man, let alone an airport!!! ------------- It's not that I can't find worth in anything, it's just that I can't find worth in enough. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 09:24
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Heathrow is now smoke-free - you cannot even smoke on the concourse outside the main terminals, let alone inside. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 09:31
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^ Visiting Italy and France in the 80s & 90s was a culture shock to a Brit (when even smoking between courses was frowned upon in the UK) to see people smoking while eating - fork in one hand, cigarette in the other and it still happens when dining al fresco. In Sicily last summer I saw staff in restaurants and in the hotel smoking while on duty, so it is business as usual for some regardless.
Like Martin, I have always been a considerate smoker, I know it is a filthy habit, I know it stinks, I know the health risks, I know it affects non-smokers and asthmatics, I'm even aware that a poorly extinguished butt can start a fire and that an old ashtray smells like an old ashtray - I am an adict, but not a junkie - it is the implication that I have no consideration for others I find objectionable. I fully support non-smoking in the workplace and where food is served, I even appreciate not smoking on trains, buses and aeroplanes (even long-haul). However, I have always felt that if I am to make allowances for other people, that they should reciprocate and make allowances for me.
My only stipulation when the we chose to ban smoking in our company back in the 80s was that people didn't eat fruit in my office and that all unwanted skins, peels and cores be disposed of in the canteen, not my waste bin since I find the smell as objectionable as stale smoke. (To me orange peel smells like vomit). After a few months I had to enforce a policy on my Engineers of not eating at their desks when one of them decided to reheat a curry on a portable hotplate and then leave the dirty plate and pan festering on his desk over the weekend. ------------- What? |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 09:33
ahhh... good to know... no connecting flights to Italy through London anymore ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 09:40
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^ first time I flew to San Francisco, after 13 hours without a cigarette I approached a security guard and asked him where I could smoke - he pointed east and said rather stoically "Nevada" ------------- What? |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 09:48
hahahhahhah ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: limeyrob
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 09:51
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Of the comments that say that it is up to smokers whether they want to endanger their own lives my response is fine by me but stay out of hospitals. When I was very poorly a year or so ago I and others had a very hard time trying to get to sleep at night for the number of other patients coughing their guts out. We had no sympathy for them as it was a self inflicted injury. And this comes from an ex-smoker. No doubt the smoking debate will continue.
I'll say no more on the subject as from my previous experiences the conversation just goes round in circles.
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Posted By: manofmystery
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 12:02
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Being in favor of forced smoking bans on privately owned business in nothing more than selfish and flies in the face of America's founding principals. I don't smoke but I don't wish to see smokers punished by government decree (especially when its a government that wants it both ways: keep smoking and pay all our taxes but don't do it around anybody else). If the owner of the bar/restraunt/club decides to ban smoking then fine, more power to him, but the government shouldn't be forcing anything on him/her. This is another case of government not allowing citizens to make their own decisions.
By the way, do those awful TRUTH commercials make anyone else want to start smoking? -------------  Time always wins. |
Posted By: Garion81
Date Posted: April 11 2009 at 21:26
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^ Again you forget people who work there who don't smoke. Cigarettes have been proven to release noxious harmful fumes if someone inhales them. What about their rights to work in an unharmful environment? With your line of thinking then any owner can subjugate their employees to whatever hazardous environment they please? Give me a break. Liberty goes only so far as you don't tread on someone else's rights. Don't give me the line they can go someplace else. It means they can go anywhere to work and still have the same knowledge that their work environment is reasonably safe.
Owners in California leading up to the ban said they would lose all sorts of business. In realty it was the opposite as people who refused to go into a bar because of the smoke started top come in and stay longer. Most of the smart bars developed a nice outside smoking area. You know what all the same people who smoked still came into the bar. After a few weeks of grumbling they accepted it as nothing more than a minor inconvenience. -------------
"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
Posted By: manofmystery
Date Posted: April 12 2009 at 00:50
I believe free will allows you not to take the job knowing smoke will be involved. You presume either that A)workers are ignorant to the hazards of the job they are taking or B)workers should be allowed to take a job then demand immediate changes to suit their needs. It also seems that you believe government must actively regulate who recieves what liberties where and when. If you allow for both options in a free society then the customers will decide what is important to them without the interference of a central bureaucracy which, incidently, is no better at making everyday decisions effecting your life than you yourself (if someone disagrees with this then I am sad for you).
Then let the smokers have their bars and allow other entrepreneurs to open their own smokeless bars, which they will, because there is a market. Smokers are already looked down upon and taxed through the teeth, can't you just let them have somewhere to smoke? Instead of having the government force them to bend to your will why not create an alternative so no one is oppressed. And if you know a certain bar still allows smoking you could simply avoid that bar or implore the owner to change his/her policies. Incidently, I believe smokers would still like to be able to have a cigarette on bad weather days.
How many minor inconveniences till we lose our liberty? Precident like this is a dangerous gift to give government beaurecrats. Next thing you know you won't be able to eat the same foods (oh wait) or buy the same lightbulbs (oh wait) that you used to and it will continue like this till one day you wake up in your government approved bed, in your government approved house, in your government built Levett town, where you will sit and wait for the hour a day you'll be allowed to use the electricity required to listen to your government approved music. Why grumble when it is easier to let someone else make your decisions for you anyway? I mean their choices will always fall in line with the ones you'd have made, right? ------------- Time always wins. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: April 12 2009 at 04:29
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^Yeah, what's next a ban on drinking in bars????? And while were at it, let's allow smoking of crack and pot and couch stuffing in bars. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: April 12 2009 at 04:40
Smoking is different than your typical suicidal drug abuse ... it harms others. Like Garion81 said: Even in privately owned businesses there are still employees who may not want to be injured by smokers. Sure, you can claim that it's their free choice. But in this case I'll say: to hell with freedom, let's save some lifes! BTW: I'm really shocked to see how smokers create their own reality, where common sense doesn't apply. Quit smoking right now ... it might safe your life, it *will* safe you quite some money, and you won't be bothered by smoking bans anymore. ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |