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Negoba 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5210
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 Posted: March 26 2009 at 14:16 |
Here's the whole problem - people assuming that the government and the common good or the community are equivalent. They virtually never are and that's why we talk perpendicularly to each other, just as in most major debates.
Fiscal conservatives (in the US) complain about the government and the liberals talk about the common good but those things aren't in opposition. It's an illusion. Grrrr....
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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: March 26 2009 at 14:37 |
The question is this.... the CEO makes 300 times more than the average worker... but the average worker is 300 times more .... well, there are 30000 times as many "average workers" as CEO's... and what the CEO needs to make his money is for those "average workers" to SPEND money on his crap.... but if each time they have less money to spend on HIS crap... what does he do when his crap can't be bought? he doesn't cut HIS pay... no.... HE FIRES SOME "average workers"... who now can spend even less...
But of course, education will take care of that! NO! because its costs are so high that the "average worker" can't usually access it and it's a privilege for a few... Why? Because he earns 300 times less money than the CEOs.... then, with no education, the "average workers" don't even know they're being f**ked to begin with.....
BUT... the CEO gets richer and richer and he buys INFLUENCE... he buys things like tv stations, which now help him in his task.... he promotes a life of spending and quick earning... he sells "cribs" and "sweet sixteen" to stupid teenagers than are being told that the only thinbg that matters is "make mo'".... he sells music that teaches people that "cash money" is the goal of life.... why? Because he makes people WANT money, and WANT IT QUICKL:Y,..... therefore is so much easier to have youngsters working quickly instead of going through years and years of education.... what's the point in becoming an architect or a lawyer or a doctor if one can make QUICK money being a manager for the CEO... and in the process, be a little bit over the "average workers"?
Oh but the idiotic guy below can get sick.... but no.... The insurance companies owned by the CEO and his friends make sure that the "average workers" remain almost like paid slaves.... they can't complain or quit Because if they do, they lose their health insurance, and they may get seriously ill! Therefore, they shut the f**k up, resing all powers of strike and union, and do absolutely everything the CEO does...
In the meantime, professors make 30000 a year because people CAN'T PAY HIM ANY BETTER... because the teacher is actually paid by the people in taxes.... and if taxes are low and people are selfish and evade them when they can get away qwith it, there's no pay for the professor. The one in charge of making teen idiots into something less idiotic....
The NBA player makes millions because he MAKES millions for the CEO, in the way of advertising, publicity, selling his damn stupid name... and of course, he makes sure that many young people idolize the NBA player because in that way they don't worry about the rest.... youngsters don't have a clue about politics, history, don't read news.... as long as the NBA player is doing the job, they think their life is too great....
so they become cannon food for the CEO.... oh yes, the sons of "average workers" are destined to become "average workers" .... percentage-wise, mcuh less than half can actually climb the ladder....
while the CEOs continues to push the ceiling higher and higher.... is not even a conspiracy.... is just NATURE! He wants MORE and MORE and MORE....
And then the CEO goes to his church to pray to god and his real god, the us Dollar, "in god we trust"... and he's at peace...
And curiously, "average workers" also thank god and this other god... they don't know better..... They have been taught to OBEY by the CEOS and.. well, also by their pastors....
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Negoba
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5210
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Posted: March 26 2009 at 14:43 |
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No no no, man, it's just about hard work.
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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24429
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Posted: March 26 2009 at 14:53 |
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I wanted to stay out of the debate, but I feel I have to say at least one thing... I really wonder about how these ultra-conservative people don't trust the government in matters such as education or healthcare, but are willing to entrust their defense and national security into its hands quite blindly. The whole immigration machine here (not to mention defense - the Pentagon is very close to where I live) must cost bazillions of money, and its effectiveness is debatable to say the least, seen the sheer number of illegals who live in US territory.
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group
Site Admin
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Status: Offline
Points: 36940
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Posted: March 26 2009 at 14:55 |
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It's vicious and perpetuating. Those in power seek to maintain the status quo and being in power they have the power/ influence to keep the majority down (which they must to maintain power -- I do see it as an exploitative system with the exploitation falling far more on those with power). It's sad that so many people accept their lot, it is the way it is, and don't even or hardly question it, but understandable since they're being manipulated, and often just struggling to survive with minimal education and much inculcation (ideological and more). Add to this that with limited education and poor diet, the masses tend to be less intelligent, and of course very naive. What was that from 1984 about the masses only rising up when they become conscious, but the conditions keep them from becoming conscious?
Edited by Logan - March 26 2009 at 15:03
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32552
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Posted: March 26 2009 at 15:05 |
 Raff wrote:
I wanted to stay out of the debate, but I feel I have to say at least one thing... I really wonder about how these ultra-conservative people don't trust the government in matters such as education or healthcare, but are willing to entrust their defense and national security into its hands quite blindly. The whole immigration machine here (not to mention defense - the Pentagon is very close to where I live) must cost bazillions of money, and its effectiveness is debatable to say the least, seen the sheer number of illegals who live in US territory.
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The US government is really the only entity of the US with the wherewithal to buy tanks, missiles, and command a massive and united armed forces.
That said, I have no qualms about being armed myself. 
And my wife and I are seriously considering homeschooling our children.
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group
Site Admin
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Status: Offline
Points: 36940
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Posted: March 26 2009 at 15:11 |
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Are you one of those gun-toting Christians? A bible in one hand and a pistol or shotgun in the other.
EDIT Incidentally (not directed at you, just a thought): At one time I would ask myself "What would Jesus do?" when in a certain situation. Now I may think, facetiously, "why blow their f-ing heads off, of course." ;)
Edited by Logan - March 26 2009 at 15:18
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: March 26 2009 at 15:13 |
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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horsewithteeth11
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 24598
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Posted: March 26 2009 at 15:14 |
Epignosis wrote:
Raff wrote:
I wanted to stay out of the debate, but I feel I have to say at least one thing... I really wonder about how these ultra-conservative people don't trust the government in matters such as education or healthcare, but are willing to entrust their defense and national security into its hands quite blindly. The whole immigration machine here (not to mention defense - the Pentagon is very close to where I live) must cost bazillions of money, and its effectiveness is debatable to say the least, seen the sheer number of illegals who live in US territory.
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The US government is really the only entity of the US with the wherewithal to buy tanks, missiles, and command a massive and united armed forces.
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Not to mention that the military is operated on a daily basis by private individuals. The government simply funds it and gives it the weapons and supplies it needs.
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32552
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Posted: March 26 2009 at 15:15 |
Logan wrote:
Are you one of those gun-toting Christians? A bible in one hand and a pistol or shotgun in the other.
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I'm one of those Christians who believes it's better to have a gun and not need it than to need a gun and not have one.
If someone breaks into my home, I won't wait on police to arrive and protect my wife and 20-month-old son.
The Bible is in my hand everyday, and a gun almost never. I pray I never have to use a gun.
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32552
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Posted: March 26 2009 at 15:16 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Raff wrote:
I wanted to stay out of the debate, but I feel I have to say at least one thing... I really wonder about how these ultra-conservative people don't trust the government in matters such as education or healthcare, but are willing to entrust their defense and national security into its hands quite blindly. The whole immigration machine here (not to mention defense - the Pentagon is very close to where I live) must cost bazillions of money, and its effectiveness is debatable to say the least, seen the sheer number of illegals who live in US territory.
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The US government is really the only entity of the US with the wherewithal to buy tanks, missiles, and command a massive and united armed forces.
That said, I have no qualms about being armed myself.
And my wife and I are seriously considering homeschooling our children.
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Yeah, but you can't be a decent part of the "well regulated militia" unless you have tanks, missiles and nukeular warheads or your own. 
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This is also true. 
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horsewithteeth11
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 24598
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Posted: March 26 2009 at 15:19 |
Epignosis wrote:
Also, there's this: I would bet my last beer that if we redistributed all wealth, you will have poverty again in a very short time. Some people don't know how to manage wealth. Give everyone a small fortune, and some will have a bigger fortune, some will stagnate, and some will be begging for dimes drinking King Cobra.
Back to square one.
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Pretty much sums up my whole feelings on this thread.  One of the major rules of economics is that there will always be losers. Sure we can do things to help the people at the bottom of the economic ladder, but there's always going to be someone clinging for dear life to that bottom rung. Economics is about scarce, limited resources so someone is always going to be left out unfortunately. And besides, the shrinking of the middle class in my country and our ballooning debt has me far more worried than most other economic issues.
Edited by birdwithteeth11 - March 26 2009 at 15:23
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: March 26 2009 at 15:20 |
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What?
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horsewithteeth11
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 24598
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Posted: March 26 2009 at 15:20 |
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32552
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Posted: March 26 2009 at 15:21 |
General William Henry Gates III. 
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horsewithteeth11
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 24598
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Posted: March 26 2009 at 15:22 |
Actually, Bill Gates would probably make your computer crash if you tried to get rid of it. Microsoft tried to do that with Internet Explorer, but it landed their asses on the receiving end of a hefty lawsuit and payout.
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
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Posted: March 26 2009 at 15:25 |
Dean wrote:
Microsoft could. There's a thought - Register you copy of Vista NOW (or else)  |
Talk about the blue screen of death! 
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
Status: Offline
Points: 89372
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Posted: March 26 2009 at 15:27 |
birdwithteeth11 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Also, there's this: I would bet my last beer that if we redistributed all wealth, you will have poverty again in a very short time. Some people don't know how to manage wealth. Give everyone a small fortune, and some will have a bigger fortune, some will stagnate, and some will be begging for dimes drinking King Cobra.
Back to square one.
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Pretty much sums up my whole feelings on this thread.
One of the major rules of economics is that there will always be losers. Sure we can do things to help the people at the bottom of the economic ladder, but there's always going to be someone clinging for dear life to that bottom rung. Economics is about scarce, limited resources so someone is always going to be left out unfortunately.
And besides, the shrinking of the middle class in my country and our ballooning debt has me far more worried than most other economic issues.
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Quite so. There's nothing wrong with being poor. There's also nothing wrong with being comfortable financially (Middle Class) but Capitalism is just annoying, yet also completely necessary. So there will always be poor, middle class and upper crust rich w**kers.
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Negoba
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5210
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Posted: March 26 2009 at 15:28 |
Wow, we learn some interesting things about each other, no?
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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group
Site Admin
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Status: Offline
Points: 36940
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Posted: March 26 2009 at 15:29 |
Epignosis wrote:
Logan wrote:
Are you one of those gun-toting Christians? A bible in one hand and a pistol or shotgun in the other.
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I'm one of those Christians who believes it's better to have a gun and not need it than to need a gun and not have one.
If someone breaks into my home, I won't wait on police to arrive and protect my wife and 20-month-old son.
The Bible is in my hand everyday, and a gun almost never. I pray I never have to use a gun.
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It's not like I don't have any weapons in the house (no guns) and of course would want to do all I can to protect my young ones. I armed myself with a very good alarm system and locks (and have thought about getting bear spray). I'd be very worried about my children ever getting their hands on the gun (but then I'm also very careful with the knifes). It's sad how violence has proliferated here. When I was growing up my parents wouldn't even lock the door during the day (even when out which was a mistake), and we never had a break-in save from some high-school kids who once got in and tried to steal some jewellery. I don't think it makes a safer society though when it's easy to access guns. I wonder how many lives are saved thanks to people having guns in their households. I knew an older guy in the US who was a gun-nut and would leave his doow unlocked hoping that someone would come in that he could blow-away. Anyway, I'm getting way off topic here. The relative ease of getting guns in the US has meant many more guns falling into the wrong hands in Canada.
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/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
Socialism.. does anyone have a clue.
Most people have no clue even what it is. Socialists are derided more than Communists in my mind. Very weird.
