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Slartibartfast 
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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 Posted: March 26 2009 at 13:34 |
 Slartibartfast wrote:
so⋅cial⋅ism | 1. | a
theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of
the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution,
of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole. | | 2. | procedure or practice in accordance with this theory. | | 3. | (in
Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a
society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of
collectivist principles. |
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I have a clue, I have a clue!!!  This of course puts me light years ahead of most conservative blowhards. 
Edited by Slartibartfast - March 26 2009 at 13:54
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
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Posted: March 26 2009 at 13:39 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
so⋅cial⋅ism | 1. | a
theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of
the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution,
of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole. | | 2. | procedure or practice in accordance with this theory. | | 3. | (in
Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a
society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of
collectivist principles. |
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Hmmm, let me try an analogy... Christianity: 1. A minor offshoot of Judaism founded 100 years ago in Judea....
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
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Posted: March 26 2009 at 13:41 |
Epignosis wrote:
Negoba wrote:
Most thinking Christians do support a socialist based ideology.
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For church, maybe (which is run on voluntary donations, not taxes).
I think your statement is a terrible over-generalization, by the way. (Most Christians I know- and I know many- are staunch fiscal conservatives).
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and someone like me might infer that they aren't really Christians...
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: March 26 2009 at 13:45 |
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I don't believe Jesus said anything about the means of production being in the hands of the workers.
Socialism means a lot more now than when Marx wrote the Manifesto, as far as I can tell.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: March 26 2009 at 13:52 |
Tony R wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:
so⋅cial⋅ism | 1. | a
theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of
the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution,
of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole. | | 2. | procedure or practice in accordance with this theory. | | 3. | (in
Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a
society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of
collectivist principles. |
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Hmmm, let me try an analogy...
Christianity:
1. A minor offshoot of Judaism founded 100 years ago in Judea....
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Hey now, I was just saying I had a clue. To Stonebeard's point, it's also worth noting that Jesus nothing documented to say about a lot of things. WWJDTV? What would Jesus do about TeleVision, etc?
Edited by Slartibartfast - March 26 2009 at 13:57
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
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Posted: March 26 2009 at 13:52 |
stonebeard wrote:
I don't believe Jesus said anything about the means of production being in the hands of the workers.
And I dont believe that modern Socialism advocates that either
Socialism means a lot more now than when Marx wrote the Manifesto, as far as I can tell.
and your point is...
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group
Site Admin
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Status: Offline
Points: 36993
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Posted: March 26 2009 at 13:53 |
stonebeard wrote:
I don't believe Jesus said anything about the means of production being in the hands of the workers.
Socialism means a lot more now than when Marx wrote the Manifesto, as far as I can tell.
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The meek shall inherit the Earth once the means of production is in the hands of the meek.
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
Status: Offline
Points: 89372
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Posted: March 26 2009 at 13:54 |
I'd say the opposite, Drew. I think Socialism means a lot less now. Many people guffaw and snort at it as if it's evil.  Most people have no clue even what it is. Socialists are derided more than Communists in my mind. Very weird.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: March 26 2009 at 13:57 |
James wrote:
I'd say the opposite, Drew. I think Socialism means a lot less now. Many people guffaw and snort at it as if it's evil. Most people have no clue even what it is. Socialists are derided more than Communists in my mind. Very weird.
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Well except for the Chinese, I think communism is basically not the official form of any other major government on earth.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Alberto Muñoz
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 26 2006
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 3577
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Posted: March 26 2009 at 13:57 |
Are we trying to show any new about the word Socialism? or are we talking about US specific situation??
To all the US members if you think that the workers have problematic issues, please turn around and see your neirborhood: Mexico you will be in awe if you know the real situatuin here.
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crimson87
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 03 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 1818
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Posted: March 26 2009 at 13:57 |
Epignosis wrote:
You know, you could get an MBA, work your way up and become a CEO and make millions. Nobody's stopping you.
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Or you can be like Tony Montana 
You know , CEO's win way too much. I think they should win 30 times more the minimum wage. That's fair enough. But that minimum wage should pay all your basic expenses.
About sportsmen , they win way too much money and is not as deserved as CEO's. There are some soccer players in my country that are so damm ingnorant , yet they win millons a year. For example Leo Messi: The guy's my age and he can buy several cars a month , he doesn't even know how to speak in public!
The same thing can be said about people in showbusiness. What can they do besides acting/dancing/singing/sucking? Put them in a desert island and lets see how worthy they are
The fault is ours , we give way too much importance to sports and TV so they are paid as they currently are.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: March 26 2009 at 13:59 |
Alberto Muñoz wrote:
Are we trying to show any new about the word Socialism? or are we talking about US specific situation??
To all the US members if you think that the workers have problematic issues, please turn around and see your neirborhood: Mexico you will be in awe if you know the real situatuin here.
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Is it true that the drug business has become as major of a scourge on your country as I have heard?
Edited by Slartibartfast - March 26 2009 at 14:00
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Alberto Muñoz
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 26 2006
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 3577
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Posted: March 26 2009 at 13:59 |
James wrote:
I'd say the opposite, Drew. I think Socialism means a lot less now. Many people guffaw and snort at it as if it's evil. Most people have no clue even what it is. Socialists are derided more than Communists in my mind. Very weird.
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Yes specially when someone like Hugo Chavez says that he is socialist!!! what a 
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
Status: Offline
Points: 89372
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Posted: March 26 2009 at 14:01 |
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: March 26 2009 at 14:01 |
Tony R wrote:
stonebeard wrote:
Socialism means a lot more now than when Marx wrote the Manifesto, as far as I can tell.
and your point is...
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Essentially that if you take a concept (Socialism) and turn it into something else (current Socialism) call it something different.
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
Status: Offline
Points: 89372
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Posted: March 26 2009 at 14:03 |
Don't forget the NSDAP.  People love to misuse/abuse the word. 
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32552
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Posted: March 26 2009 at 14:03 |
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I can't debate anymore right now, because I have to work.
Yes, work.
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Alberto Muñoz
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 26 2006
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 3577
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Posted: March 26 2009 at 14:05 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
Alberto Muñoz wrote:
Are we trying to show any new about the word Socialism? or are we talking about US specific situation??
To all the US members if you think that the workers have problematic issues, please turn around and see your neirborhood: Mexico you will be in awe if you know the real situatuin here.
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Is it true that the drug business has become as major of a scourge on your country as I have heard?
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Yes it is true, sadly they are zones of my country that actually are controlled by the mafia... 
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: March 26 2009 at 14:06 |
Alberto Muñoz wrote:
pecially when someone like Hugo Chavez says that he is socialist!!! what a |
The government taking over private industry sounds pretty socialist to me. What has he done that's not so socialist?
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Alberto Muñoz
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 26 2006
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 3577
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Posted: March 26 2009 at 14:09 |
The So called referendums that he try to become the second Fidel Castro in his country.
That sounds to totalitarian and not so socialism (in the correct use of the word).
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Socialism.. does anyone have a clue.
