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Epignosis View Drop Down
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Points: 32552 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2009 at 12:53
Originally posted by Negoba Negoba wrote:

Most thinking Christians do support a socialist based ideology.
 
 
 


For church, maybe (which is run on voluntary donations, not taxes).

I think your statement is a terrible over-generalization, by the way.  (Most Christians I know- and I know many- are staunch fiscal conservatives).
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2009 at 12:54
Originally posted by Leningrad Leningrad wrote:

Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:


OK, now I'm completely confused.Wacko  I was making a joke.
 
Just emphasizing. Some people seem to think that Socialism = Stalinism.


Originally posted by Leningrad Leningrad wrote:

Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:


OK, now I'm completely confused.Wacko  I was making a joke.
 
Just emphasizing. Some people seem to think that Socialism = Stalinism.


Originally posted by Leningrad Leningrad wrote:

Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:


OK, now I'm completely confused.Wacko  I was making a joke.
 
Just emphasizing. Some people seem to think that Socialism = Stalinism.





Edited by Slartibartfast - March 26 2009 at 13:03
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Leningrad View Drop Down
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Points: 7991 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2009 at 12:56
Originally posted by Leningrad Leningrad wrote:

Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:


OK, now I'm completely confused.Wacko  I was making a joke.
 
Just emphasizing. Some people seem to think that Socialism = Stalinism.
 
It wasn't obvious. But I'll leave it at one quote. Wink
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2009 at 12:58
Originally posted by Leningrad Leningrad wrote:

Originally posted by Leningrad Leningrad wrote:

Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:


OK, now I'm completely confused.Wacko  I was making a joke.
 
Just emphasizing. Some people seem to think that Socialism = Stalinism.
 
It wasn't obvious. But I'll leave it at one quote. Wink

What exactly are you trying to do here, get this thread back on topic or something?


Edited by Slartibartfast - March 26 2009 at 13:28
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Points: 7991 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2009 at 13:01
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Originally posted by Leningrad Leningrad wrote:

Originally posted by Leningrad Leningrad wrote:

Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:


OK, now I'm completely confused.Wacko  I was making a joke.
 
Just emphasizing. Some people seem to think that Socialism = Stalinism.
 
It wasn't obvious. But I'll leave it at one quote. Wink

What exactly are you trying to do here, get this thread back on topic or something?
 
I don't know, seems like you and I just killed it anyway.
 
Anyhow, socialism is not Bolshevism, derp derp derp, I'll be back as soon as somebody uses the word 'totalitarian'.
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stonebeard View Drop Down
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Points: 28057 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2009 at 13:04
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

You know, you could get an MBA, work your way up and become a CEO and make millions.  Nobody's stopping you.


Tell that to everyone in the world. In capitalism, not everyone can be a CEO. There have to be people to be pissed on. That's why pure capitalism is cover-my-eyes scary ass f**k.
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Points: 5210 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2009 at 13:05
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Negoba Negoba wrote:

Most thinking Christians do support a socialist based ideology.
 
 
 


For church, maybe (which is run on voluntary donations, not taxes).

I think your statement is a terrible over-generalization, by the way.  (Most Christians I know- and I know many- are staunch fiscal conservatives).
 
Your statement points out the fact that socialism is a logical consequence of the Christian faith. You're right and most Christians know it. It was actually taught straight from the pulpit in the small town church I grew up in.
 
The voluntary part is important, but  it depends on people actually then taking the social burdens upon themselves. Religious organizations do this more than any other in the country. Whether or not they trust the government to effectively do this varies, but the ideal is the still very socialist. The sublimation of the individual wants and even needs for the good of the other and the all.
 
BTW, I don't self-identify as Christian anymore, but I haven't rejected it either.
You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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stonebeard View Drop Down
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Points: 28057 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2009 at 13:08
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:



At some point you have to recognize the power of "Stop bitching and work harder to get what you want."  It's a fairly proven method.


I have some reading you need to do but probably won't:

Bait and Switch

 Bait and Switch: The (Futile) Pursuit of the American Dream
Paperback now available!
Metropolitan Books

Bait and Switch highlights the people who’ve done everything right -- gotten college degrees, developed marketable skills, and built up impressive résumés -- yet have become repeatedly vulnerable to financial disaster, and not simply due to the vagaries of the business cycle.

Nickel and Dimed

 Nickel and Dimed: On (Not) Getting By in America
May 2001
Metropolitan Books

Millions of Americans work for poverty-level wages, and one day Barbara Ehrenreich decided to join them. She was inspired in part by the rhetoric surrounding welfare reform, which promised that any job equals a better life.




Someone made a response book to Nickel and Dimed. Point is, she just wasn't trying hard enough.
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stonebeard View Drop Down
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Points: 28057 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2009 at 13:09
And most people don't know dick about Communism either, at least not what Marx wrote about it.

PROTIP: you don't have to live in communes.
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Slartibartfast View Drop Down
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2009 at 13:09
Originally posted by Leningrad Leningrad wrote:

Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Originally posted by Leningrad Leningrad wrote:

Originally posted by Leningrad Leningrad wrote:

Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:


OK, now I'm completely confused.Wacko  I was making a joke.
 
Just emphasizing. Some people seem to think that Socialism = Stalinism.
 
It wasn't obvious. But I'll leave it at one quote. Wink

What exactly are you trying to do here, get this thread back on topic or something?
 
I don't know, seems like you and I just killed it anyway.
 
Anyhow, socialism is not Bolshevism, derp derp derp, I'll be back as soon as somebody uses the word 'totalitarian'.

We need more quote pyramids to revitalize this thread. Tongue

But seriously the people who go "socialism, socialism, socialism, socialism, braak, braaak, braaaak", for the most part are ill informed.

Edited by Slartibartfast - March 26 2009 at 13:26
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Logan View Drop Down
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Points: 36940 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2009 at 13:10
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Negoba Negoba wrote:

Most thinking Christians do support a socialist based ideology.
 
 
 


For church, maybe (which is run on voluntary donations, not taxes).

I think your statement is a terrible over-generalization, by the way.  (Most Christians I know- and I know many- are staunch fiscal conservatives).


I find Evangelicals tend to be much more fiscally conservative than the congregations in churches I have belonged to (I grew up in the Anglican Church but my wife was Pentecostal).  She'd  even attended a seminar on why Jesus was a Conservative, whereas I saw Jesus as much  more of a socialist.  I'm not religious, by the way.


Edited by Logan - March 26 2009 at 13:10
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Points: 5210 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2009 at 13:10
Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

You know, you could get an MBA, work your way up and become a CEO and make millions.  Nobody's stopping you.


Tell that to everyone in the world. In capitalism, not everyone can be a CEO. There have to be people to be pissed on. That's why pure capitalism is cover-my-eyes scary ass f**k.
 
The only way to "Work your way up" is to bend over many many times and then to return the favor many times over to those less fortunate. It is inherently predatory.
You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Epignosis View Drop Down
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Points: 32552 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2009 at 13:15
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Negoba Negoba wrote:

Most thinking Christians do support a socialist based ideology.
 
 
 


For church, maybe (which is run on voluntary donations, not taxes).

I think your statement is a terrible over-generalization, by the way.  (Most Christians I know- and I know many- are staunch fiscal conservatives).


I find Evangelicals tend to be much more fiscally conservative than the congregations in churches I have belonged to (I grew up in the Anglican Church but my wife was Pentecostal).  She'd  even attended a seminar on why Jesus was a Conservative, whereas I saw Jesus as much  more of a socialist.  I'm not religious, by the way.


I've heard both sides, but to be honest, seeing Jesus either way amounts to little more than anachronistic ethnocentrism.
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Points: 36940 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2009 at 13:18
Originally posted by Negoba Negoba wrote:

Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

You know, you could get an MBA, work your way up and become a CEO and make millions.  Nobody's stopping you.


Tell that to everyone in the world. In capitalism, not everyone can be a CEO. There have to be people to be pissed on. That's why pure capitalism is cover-my-eyes scary ass f**k.
 
The only way to "Work your way up" is to bend over many many times and then to return the favor many times over to those less fortunate. It is inherently predatory.


That's been my experience, unethical sycophants tend to be rewarded and then exploit those beneath them (often taking credit for other's work). Sociopaths have an advantage.
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Epignosis View Drop Down
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Points: 32552 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2009 at 13:18
Originally posted by Negoba Negoba wrote:

Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

You know, you could get an MBA, work your way up and become a CEO and make millions.  Nobody's stopping you.


Tell that to everyone in the world. In capitalism, not everyone can be a CEO. There have to be people to be pissed on. That's why pure capitalism is cover-my-eyes scary ass f**k.
 
The only way to "Work your way up" is to bend over many many times and then to return the favor many times over to those less fortunate. It is inherently predatory.


Exactly stone- not everyone can be a CEO.  I probably couldn't.  I'm not whining about it though.

And face it- some people get "pissed on" because they have no sense or restraint (Would you trust compulsive gamblers or alcoholics with a "fresh start" financially?)
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Points: 1818 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2009 at 13:20

Both the market and the government are necesary for a country to have a fair wealth distribution. Let the market do the big business and the government MUST provide basic services which the market won't find any worth  in producing them.

Also the government must control them and put a limit in wages. A progressive tax system is also a must. 
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Points: 28057 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2009 at 13:24
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Negoba Negoba wrote:

Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

You know, you could get an MBA, work your way up and become a CEO and make millions.  Nobody's stopping you.


Tell that to everyone in the world. In capitalism, not everyone can be a CEO. There have to be people to be pissed on. That's why pure capitalism is cover-my-eyes scary ass f**k.
 
The only way to "Work your way up" is to bend over many many times and then to return the favor many times over to those less fortunate. It is inherently predatory.


Exactly stone- not everyone can be a CEO.  I probably couldn't.  I'm not whining about it though.

And face it- some people get "pissed on" because they have no sense or restraint (Would you trust compulsive gamblers or alcoholics with a "fresh start" financially?)


So, that predatory, aspiring CEOs screw over anyone who gets in their way, it's...the fault of he who is screwed over? I hope to Zeus I'm interpreting that wrong.

Point is, capitalism is founded on greed, selfishness, and screwing over others. If it is not tempered (hopefully highly) with socialism, it is inhumane, evil, and will corrupt the society entirely and to its core.
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2009 at 13:24
Originally posted by crimson87 crimson87 wrote:

Both the market and the government are necesary for a country to have a fair wealth distribution. Let the market do the big business and the government MUST provide basic services which the market won't find any worth  in producing them.

Also the government must control them and put a limit in wages. A progressive tax system is also a must. 


That made too much sense, you must be some kind of socialisticommunist...
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Points: 5210 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2009 at 13:27
Anachronistic ethnocentrism - that's a lot of letters. And to some degree correct. But seeing as "Socialist" is a very broad term, you can infer from, yes even the Bible, some socialist tendencies. But yes to compare that to anything resembling our market is just following your own thought streams.
 
 
You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Points: 5210 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2009 at 13:28
Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Negoba Negoba wrote:

Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

You know, you could get an MBA, work your way up and become a CEO and make millions.  Nobody's stopping you.


Tell that to everyone in the world. In capitalism, not everyone can be a CEO. There have to be people to be pissed on. That's why pure capitalism is cover-my-eyes scary ass f**k.
 
The only way to "Work your way up" is to bend over many many times and then to return the favor many times over to those less fortunate. It is inherently predatory.


Exactly stone- not everyone can be a CEO.  I probably couldn't.  I'm not whining about it though.

And face it- some people get "pissed on" because they have no sense or restraint (Would you trust compulsive gamblers or alcoholics with a "fresh start" financially?)


So, that predatory, aspiring CEOs screw over anyone who gets in their way, it's...the fault of he who is screwed over? I hope to Zeus I'm interpreting that wrong.

Point is, capitalism is founded on greed, selfishness, and screwing over others. If it is not tempered (hopefully highly) with socialism, it is inhumane, evil, and will corrupt the society entirely and to its core.
 
Good thing that hasn't happened already, we might really be in trouble...
You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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