Getting estranged from prog

Yeah, I've never got the whole deal about "OMG ALL MY LISTENING MUST BE PROG, WHAT IS HAPPENING TO ME I DON'T LISTEN TO PROG 100 PER CENT OF THE TIME"

Come on people, there is jazz, classical, metal, punk , to name a few main genres and between them, you can find probably over 100 sub genres in those 4 main ones I named alone.
There is a lot of music out there that isn't 'PROG ROCK' and surely someone can find something out there they are gonna like outside of prog.
The fact anyone is concerned about whether they 'NOT STAYING TROOO 2 TEH PORG RAWK' is embarrassing quite frankly.
I know I'd certainly be embarrassed if someone came up to me and asked what I listen to and my response is " I only listen to Prog Rock".
Imagine how narrow minded, idiotic and pretentious they are going to think you are.
There is no obligation and never has been for anyone to "STAY TROO" to prog rock, and I'm saying this as a Collab for christ sake.
There are some people here that apparently listen to prog, 98, 99 or 100 per cent of the time.
Just go out and actually try something else for a change, seriously, because you're missing so much.
This is not the only music forum board I go to, because I honestly don't want to discuss or see dicussions on prog all day long and these places give me a break from that.

And hell, these days, when I want 'new prog' I go for more underground stuff that doesn't have that association with 'classic prog', because the amount of classic prog discussions involving Yes, Genesis, Pink Floyd has really made me want to get away from that stuff.
As Ian (Dim) said earlier in this thread, listening to classic prog feels like a chore for me too nowadays.




Edited by HughesJB4 - January 13 2009 at 21:45

For me i have no problem in listening to what would be called prog or prog related.I spent so many freaking years trying to find music i liked and when i found prog it was like finding the Holy Grail. I love it,and there's so many genres that i really am into as well. For me this is home.And there's no place like home. So no i don't feel like i'm stuck or trapped in a genre of music.I'm living large in it! I've never been so satisfied with music in all my life.

Leningrad wrote: I can't even imagine how some of you have been stuck on the genre as long as you have. It just blows my mind. I was completely and utterly one of the OMG PRAGUE PRAGUE PRAGUE MY MUSIC TASTES ARE SO UNIQUE kids for only about a year and I'm horribly ashamed. Some of you have been doing it for decades.

I don't see how that's any different. From what I gather, this whole superiority complex seems to be innate in human nature. Before, you used to feel superior to others because they didn't share your tastes in prog - now you feel superior because you supposedly have wider tastes. It's all just two sides of the same coin.

HughesJB4 wrote: Trademark wrote: Prog as a one-course meal will never satisfy.  Fortunately for me I don't give a rusty f**k about staying true to prog or any other genre for that matter. Bumped, enlarged, and quoted for truth.

Jimbo wrote: I don't see how that's any different. From what I gather, this whole superiority complex seems to be innate in human nature. Before, you used to feel superior to others because they didn't share your tastes in prog - now you feel superior because you supposedly have wider tastes. It's all just two sides of the same coin.

Greetings to all! Speaking as a fan who discovered prog rock in its golden era, age 13, i.e. 1970-75, I think that the fabulous music we all love, from that era can never be repeated. By its very name this is a genre which progresses, and evolves. For me, Selling England was the first prog album I ever heard and to this day has never been bettered by any band, ever, although the Lamb came close. This golden age was really only ever revealed in a few masterpiece albums, by Genesis, Yes, ELP, Gentle Giant, Mahavishnu Orchestra (jazz/prog?), Hatfield and the North, Egg, and a few others. Having seen a few of these creative teams live, I can say with confidence it was indeed a marvellous time in which the genre flowered (eventually into the Flower Kings!!). I think we should all be thankful for the (mostly English it must be said) trailblazers who created the fabric of the music that you and I love.

But, that was then and what do we have now? Well, as the title suggests, this is a 'progressive' form of music, so we cannot expect it to have remained the same, can we? So, we now have a huge range of evolved prog which includes the Flower Kings, DTheater, SymphonyX, PTree, many others, and some newer Scandinavian bands I highly recommend. If you need some classic sounding prog then get these: Wobbler, 'Hinterland' (the best new classic prog i have heard) the 26 min title track wil make you think Genesis/Yes/ELP/Gentle Giant. While, Knight Area 'Under a New Sign', with gut-wobbling real bass pedals will have all the Gabriel era Genesis fans (like me), and Collins album dudes rocking!! Guaranteed...

 

While we should all keep faith with the past, we should also move with the times, while not succumbing to the mimed reality rubbish predominant in the current (UK) charts... 

 

Keep it Rael...

The T wrote: Curiously, the genre that has in the last 4 months almost crushed prog (for a while.. it's still my main dish) is extreme metal, and black metal especifically. It has been really a complete obliteration. I finally decided to submerge myself in genres I always loved (death and black, no sh*t metalcore) but never accepted the fact.

Hah hah, exactly the same with me. I went through a metal phase and I decided that prog rock sucked, that it was insincere and weak bullsh*t compared to metal. I would listen to crap like burzum and think there was no prog that could match the sincerity and feeling in it. I pretty much hated everything else during my metal phase, I must have seemed like a jerk 

Nuke wrote: I have to say that Mr. ProgFreak nailed it on the head when the talked about limits. If you cannot tolerate double-bass drumming, then you cannot tolerate an ever-increasing percentage of modern music. If you cannot tolerate clean production, then you cannot tolerate an ever-increasing percentage of modern music. I've know much older folks that only listen to classical and jazz because they cannot tolerate electric guitars and the like. I mean, they're so gimmicky, right? To truly appreciate any art form, you cannot impose limits. You can't evaluate something for its flaws, you have to evaluate something on it's merits. If you open your mind all the way, you will discover that the music scene today is more exciting than it has ever been in the past.

this would perhaps be true if prog was the only kind of music there is. it is, however, not; there is a lot of other and much more interesting music going on. the clean production does not really bother me at all, but I would rather have a muddy production with interesting musical ideas than a clear production which else is ultimately boring (at least to me). clean production is being valued much too highly these days.
as to double-bass drumming: it is simply not true that an ever increasing percentage of modern music has double bass-drumming. you limit yourself to the realm of prog. the so-called "ever increasing percentage of double bass-drumming" is indeed notable there, but it is directly proportional to the ever increasing percentage of prog metal. but there is plenty of modern music out there where double bass-drumming does not occur at all.
the music scene is indeed exciting, but prog itself is not. most prog metal is harmonically very retrograde; there are exceptions, but they are few.
as to limits as I already said to Mike: "do you really have no limits yourself?. do you simply accept anything"? this is first of all very doubtful, and second it would really be arbitrariness.
everyone has their likes and dislikes, and that's fine with me you are no better or no worse, just because you happen to like a certain kind of music which I don't like. I am pretty sure that there is a lot of music that I like which you would dislike, be it that you can't stand the sound of a certain instrument or whatever. no-one likes everything

BaldJean wrote: Nuke wrote: I have to say that Mr. ProgFreak nailed it on the head when the talked about limits. If you cannot tolerate double-bass drumming, then you cannot tolerate an ever-increasing percentage of modern music. If you cannot tolerate clean production, then you cannot tolerate an ever-increasing percentage of modern music. I've know much older folks that only listen to classical and jazz because they cannot tolerate electric guitars and the like. I mean, they're so gimmicky, right? To truly appreciate any art form, you cannot impose limits. You can't evaluate something for its flaws, you have to evaluate something on it's merits. If you open your mind all the way, you will discover that the music scene today is more exciting than it has ever been in the past.  this would perhaps be true if prog was the only kind of music there is. it is, however, not; there is a lot of other and much more interesting music going on. the clean production does not really bother me at all, but I would rather have a muddy production with interesting musical ideas than a clear production which else is ultimately boring (at least to me). clean production is being valued much too highly these days. as to double-bass drumming: it is simply not true that an ever increasing percentage of modern music has double bass-drumming. you limit yourself to the realm of prog. the so-called "ever increasing percentage of double bass-drumming" is indeed notable there, but it is directly proportional to the ever increasing percentage of prog metal. but there is plenty of modern music out there where double bass-drumming does not occur at all. the music scene is indeed exciting, but prog itself is not. most prog metal is harmonically very retrograde; there are exceptions, but they are few. as to limits as I already said to Mike: "do you really have no limits yourself?. do you simply accept anything"? this is first of all very doubtful, and second it would really be arbitrariness. everyone has their likes and dislikes, and that's fine with me you are no better or no worse, just because you happen to like a certain kind of music which I don't like. I am pretty sure that there is a lot of music that I like which you would dislike, be it that you can't stand the sound of a certain instrument or whatever. no-one likes everything

Well, to go along with the double bass thing, even though it is increasingly popular, you are still going to find plenty of people who don't like the double bass. So you are right that there is plenty of modern usic without it, but I predict it will continue to shrink. My roommate despised double-bass drumming too. The thing was, he was totally stuck in the oldies. I think part of the reason he hated the double bass was because he worshipped john bonham, and john had eschewed the double bass because he drowned out the rest of the band. Of course, metal bands figured out the obvious solution to that one: make the rest of the band louder . Oh, and just to be clear, the double bass isn't limited to prog metal by any means. Lots of times I hear it used very subtly and tastefully in other styles of music. It really seems to have found a place in funk, for example. 

To answer your question, I have no limits. I will listen to anything, and I will judge it on its merits, not its flaws. I listen for the artistry, the thought process that went into making the song, the work involved. What I mean to say is that I care about the art, not the medium. If the art is expressed is country or jazz or metal, whether it used the double bass, the mellotron, or protools, it makes no difference to me, as long as it is art. I do have quality control, I won't listen to nickelback, but it has nothing to do with their style, nor the techniques they use. So my answer to you is, that as long as it is creative and thought out, I will like it. The more creative and thought out, the more I will like it.

Finally, I can't really defend prog metal. I spend too much time listening to *real* metal to know whether most porg metal is harmonically retrograde or not 

Edited by Nuke - January 14 2009 at 22:58

Nuke wrote: BaldJean wrote: Nuke wrote: I have to say that Mr. ProgFreak nailed it on the head when the talked about limits. If you cannot tolerate double-bass drumming, then you cannot tolerate an ever-increasing percentage of modern music. If you cannot tolerate clean production, then you cannot tolerate an ever-increasing percentage of modern music. I've know much older folks that only listen to classical and jazz because they cannot tolerate electric guitars and the like. I mean, they're so gimmicky, right? To truly appreciate any art form, you cannot impose limits. You can't evaluate something for its flaws, you have to evaluate something on it's merits. If you open your mind all the way, you will discover that the music scene today is more exciting than it has ever been in the past.  this would perhaps be true if prog was the only kind of music there is. it is, however, not; there is a lot of other and much more interesting music going on. the clean production does not really bother me at all, but I would rather have a muddy production with interesting musical ideas than a clear production which else is ultimately boring (at least to me). clean production is being valued much too highly these days. as to double-bass drumming: it is simply not true that an ever increasing percentage of modern music has double bass-drumming. you limit yourself to the realm of prog. the so-called "ever increasing percentage of double bass-drumming" is indeed notable there, but it is directly proportional to the ever increasing percentage of prog metal. but there is plenty of modern music out there where double bass-drumming does not occur at all. the music scene is indeed exciting, but prog itself is not. most prog metal is harmonically very retrograde; there are exceptions, but they are few. as to limits as I already said to Mike: "do you really have no limits yourself?. do you simply accept anything"? this is first of all very doubtful, and second it would really be arbitrariness. everyone has their likes and dislikes, and that's fine with me you are no better or no worse, just because you happen to like a certain kind of music which I don't like. I am pretty sure that there is a lot of music that I like which you would dislike, be it that you can't stand the sound of a certain instrument or whatever. no-one likes everything Well, to go along with the double bass thing, even though it is increasingly popular, you are still going to find plenty of people who don't like the double bass. So you are right that there is plenty of modern usic without it, but I predict it will continue to shrink. My roommate despised double-bass drumming too. The thing was, he was totally stuck in the oldies. I think part of the reason he hated the double bass was because he worshipped john bonham, and john had eschewed the double bass because he drowned out the rest of the band. Of course, metal bands figured out the obvious solution to that one: make the rest of the band louder . Oh, and just to be clear, the double bass isn't limited to prog metal by any means. Lots of times I hear it used very subtly and tastefully in other styles of music. It really seems to have found a place in funk, for example.  To answer your question, I have no limits. I will listen to anything, and I will judge it on its merits, not its flaws. I listen for the artistry, the thought process that went into making the song, the work involved. What I mean to say is that I care about the art, not the medium. If the art is expressed is country or jazz or metal, whether it used the double bass, the mellotron, or protools, it makes no difference to me, as long as it is art. I do have quality control, I won't listen to nickelback, but it has nothing to do with their style, nor the techniques they use. So my answer to you is, that as long as it is creative and thought out, I will like it. The more creative and thought out, the more I will like it. Finally, I can't really defend prog metal. I spend too much time listening to *real* metal to know whether most porg metal is harmonically retrograde or not

nonsense,  of course you have your limits, else your taste is totally arbitrary. saying that you like "all music which is creative and thought out" in essence boils down to no less than saying that you are the final instance to decide which kind of music is creative and thought out, which is plain absurd. there is a lot of creative and thought out music I don't like at all, but at least I grant the artist that their music is still "creative and thought out". what you want to say is that you have no predefined limits. that is true with me too; I did not decide against double-bass drumming without listening to it first..but I fail to see its merits; it sounds overly pompous.
as for your prediction that double-bass drumming will become a kind of standard: very doubtful, since it is not a recent invention at all; it has been around for decades and was even used by some early jazz drummers already. it is a current fad because prog-metal is doing comparatively well right now, but fads come and go.
anyway, you would be surprised what a drummer who is really worth his salt can do with a single bass drum; you really don't need it


Edited by BaldJean - January 15 2009 at 00:28