Getting estranged from prog
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Topic: Getting estranged from prog
Posted By: BaldFriede
Subject: Getting estranged from prog
Date Posted: January 06 2009 at 04:43
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I don't know why, but I am getting more and more estranged from prog. It still has a
place in my heart, but the development the music is taking in this genre makes me
shy away from it. Or perhaps it is my own development, who knows? .In any case, newer artists in prog seem to have different opinions about what prog actually is than I. The few exceptions can be counted on the fingers of one hand. There are some old heroes who keep carrying the flag, but some of them have left the path of what is acceptable for me. And they are of course not getting any younger, which means there number becomes fewer with each year. Artists like The Red Masque, who in my opinion are by far the best of what cropped up in the last ten years, are few. (They get, by the way, far too little attention in here, in my honest opinion. The archives should hail them like some of the big bands of the 70s, and I mean it). I find myself listening to classical music and jazz mostly these days. That is, I still listen to prog, but I am really missing new artists that keep the ball rolling. People have suggested some new artists to me, but they didn't really excite me. As I said, it may be just me (though Jean says she feels quite similar). There just is no real daring anymore, except from some of the old heroes. Modern production adds to my discomfort with prog; it no longer sounds organic, it sounds artificial. Every single instrument is so clearly seperated from the other - that's not the way it sounds when you hear music being played live. Here the instruments blend into each other, making the whole thing sound organic. This is probably one of the reasons why I prefer live recordings to studio ones (especially modern studio recordings). Is it just me, or is anyone else feeling like this? -------------  BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Replies:
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: January 06 2009 at 05:07
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Not feeling estranged from prog in general, but I guess I dont listen to much modern prog for similar reasons to you; lack of invention, digital production etc..
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Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: January 06 2009 at 05:15
| I'm not getting estranged from prog either, just broadening my view on music... |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: January 06 2009 at 05:27
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Well, it is not as if I entirely lost my interest in the genre. But I hardly find any new productions I consider to be worthwhile to listen to except, as already noted, from some of the old guys who somehow seem to have the knack to know what real music is all about. But the new artists cropping up in prog somehow don't do it for me. And I somehow can't believe this is because I have lost my liking for experimentation; on the contrary, it is the lack of experimentation which I deplore. ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: easytargets
Date Posted: January 06 2009 at 05:35
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I´m not into prog since long time, but I can say that my approach to modern bands
is much shyer than with the great classics and, in general, with the late 60s and 70s bands.
Even though, I´m enjoying some modern bands that I don´t find to be as progressive as the old ones.
It´s just probably most the modern bands I like come from a different background and
have not the clear bluesy, jazz or classical influences that were somehow the keystones of the genre when it sprung out.
I´m listening to Opeth right now and, you know, I can´t find any Yes or ELP vibes in their blend of styles.
Anyway, I love them because I´ve been a metalhead for most of my life (and still I am) and think they´re very good musicians wanting to play more developed music. Surely, this could be the point: the different ways
in which music can be developed.Some of them, actually, most of them can´t afford people who has great love for the elements that defined the genre 40 years ago.
I´m thinking of bands such as Kayo Dot, GY¡BE,...
At least, I´m not really sure if I´m explaining in a good manner what I wanted to say
Tell something, lols ------------- The water rushes over all cities crash in the mighty wave; the final man is very small, plunging in for his final bathe |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: January 06 2009 at 06:00
I'm a fan, too. But somehow they don't strike me as being particularly inventive or innovative. Don't get me wrong, I think they're good songwriters and I would not call them "copycats" - but I don't think they're re-inventing the musical wheel either. You can hear plenty of influences in their music - VdGG/Peter Hammill to name only one. I think that the band - as good as it may be - appeals to die-hard classic prog fans much more than to the younger generation. Carrying the prog flag to me makes only sense if you're reaching younger generations too ... if prog wants to survive, it must change at least to some extent ... flexibility is the key.
There's not much "daring" in classical music and jazz either ... I guess that for every musician there comes a day when they realise that most things have been done before. After all, there are only 12 notes. You may try to expand on that and listen to microtonal stuff, but other than that there's hardly anything groundbreaking once you've learned the "tricks". I know that many people are looking for the perfect piece of music - the most innovative, difficult to play or simply most experimental piece ever conceived. As far as I'm concerned - I value those things, but they're not what makes music interesting to listen to. IMO the most important thing is songwriting ... and whether the music appeals to me on a personal level. My most favorite albums all feature great songwriting *and* outstanding musicianship, and I really can relate to them personally. This combination is what's most important to me, and it's independent of style or genre.
I feel the exact opposite way. At any typical live show the sound is far from perfect ... this blending of instruments you describe is something which simply can't be helped. Recording technologies have certainly come a long way ... today we are able to clearly separate the instruments, which even in the 70s - which were already much more advanced than the previous decades - was quite difficult to achieve. It's my personal opinion that it's preferable to record the instruments as clearly as possible - and I think that had the bands had the technology we have today, they would have used it. ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
BaldFriede wrote:Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: January 06 2009 at 06:03
http://www.myspace.com/rosekemp - http://www.myspace.com/rosekemp Finding gems like that one is what keeps me interested. It might not exactly be called Prog by some people, but to me artists like her keep the spirit alive. It's a continuation of what Prog is all about, but with (slightly) different means. I like to still call it Prog ... at least by approach, in this case. ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: January 06 2009 at 06:16
But this "perfect" sound is exactly what makes it lifeless. You don't hear music that way, and I am not talking of big concerts here at all. Even if, for example, only two acoustic guitar players sit in your living room and play, the sounds of the instruments blend into each other because they are being reflected from the surroundings. Whereas in modern studio productions all instruments are completely separated. This makes it sound sterile and artificial, especially when listening with headphones. As to "every musician comes to a point where they feel everything has been done already": Maybe, but thatÄs not what I am talking about. I have not reached that point at all, and I do find a lot of things still which I think are worth trying as a musician. I just don't find them in most of modern prog. And you can certainly here influences in The Red Masque; no-one is without influences. But they have that kind of anarchistic approach to music which I like. ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: fuxi
Date Posted: January 06 2009 at 06:17
| I think I understand what you mean. I can't think of any active prog band that really takes my breath away, with the single exception of Kenso! (People have pointed out that their kind of "symphonic jazz-rock" is clearly influenced by the likes of Bruford and Steve Hackett, but UTSUROI YUKU MONO, their most recent studio album, sounded really audacious.) Just like you, I guess, I keep expanding my musical horizon. Fortunately there's a lot of music around that sounds really subtle and/or daring. Last year I had great fun exploring C.P.E. Bach's keyboard fantasias, Francois Couperin's harpsichord suites, Rolf Kuehn's album INTERNAL EYES and Louis Sclavis's NAPOLI'S WALLS. But are you so experienced that you're truly familiar with all the nooks and crannies of Prog Archives? I keep discovering new stuff here. It may cheer you to know that one of my best discoveries lately was REAL TIME by Van der Graaf Generator, a band I had never really listened to closely... |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: January 06 2009 at 06:34
I beg to differ. It all depends on how the artists want their instruments to be recorded. Even in a live settings the two guitars would be miked independently of each other, each would have its own track in the recording, and during mixdown the instruments are blended together again. This is how it has always been done, in the 70s and today. Of course you can choose to record both guitars on the same track with only one condensator microphone with sphere (or 8) characteristics, but that would only be done out of necessity, for example when the number of tracks is limited by your equipment. Today you can literally use as many tracks as you want. I'll say it again: I'm sure that if the artists had had (strange language, this English  ) the technology back in the 70s, they would also have used it.
Personally, I don't find their music that exciting or even anarchistic. I would much prefer a band like Mastodon when it comes to that, because they are really breaking down the structures of the genre they "started at". ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: January 06 2009 at 06:50
That's where I differ; I don't find Mastodon original at all; there is nothing that really excites me about them.. And I don't regard them as breaking down the structures at all; they are way too tonal for that. The Red Masque are in my opinion much more original. A bunch of meter changes is not what I consider to be very original. But we all have our different tastes. so that's just my opinion. ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: January 06 2009 at 06:59
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^ Of course The Red Masque are much more eclectic. It's just that I recognize all the little "quirks" they use, and Mastodon simply sound more fresh to me. Of course you're free to not like Mastodon, but I don't think it's fair to narrow them down to "a bunch of meter changes". That suggests to me that you haven't given them the attention they deserve. I think that simply can't be helped ... we all have limited time, and no one can demand of someone else to invest time in music they intuitively don't like. However, it may be necessary in order to become an expert, or even for making a profound contribution to a discussion about modern prog.
------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: January 06 2009 at 07:10
De gustibus non est disputandum. You say you recognize all the "little quirks" in The Red Masque; I could say the same about Mastodon. They are a bit too tonal for my taste, and apart from playing fast and loud with lots of meter changes I don't see much to hold my interest. But I will give them that: At least they use distortion, which is something I miss in most metal bands. On the other hand they use double bass-drumming, which definitely is on my no-no list.; being a drummer myself I consider it to be a cheap gimmick. But as I said: De gustibus non est disputandum. ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: January 06 2009 at 07:44
I'm estranged too, I guess. Even as a big fan of Neo-Prog, I recognize without very, good songs, it can become a big wasteland. I have to say I'm becoming a big electronica fan of many sorts, but generally the less danceable kind minus trance and trip-hop, which I like. Similarly, newer indie bands are coming to my attention, but thankfully I don't think I can ever be a hipster. Like you, I love lots of 70s prog, and I recognize the raw, unprocessed sound is amazing, and it's a shame it's gone in most circles. I'm listening to the recent Grayceon album now, though, and I do think it's a great recent not-produced-to-death prog album.  |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: January 06 2009 at 08:04
We've been there ... I guess we'll never agree. The cool thing is: we don't need to. ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: Kestrel
Date Posted: January 06 2009 at 09:58
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I often feel the same way when it comes to modern prog. People here seem to be able to find all sorts of new stuff, but I find them to be boring and sterile, much like you do. A personal problem of mine is the dominance of distorted guitar/guitar solos everywhere (the new Tangent a perfect example) which means I can't like most modern prog. However there are a few bands I find I can enjoy. Check these guys out if you haven't already: http://www.last.fm/music/Birds+and+Buildings/Bantam+to+Behemoth - http://www.last.fm/music/Birds+and+Buildings/Bantam+to+Behemoth Also what I have been trying to do is checking out other scenes outside of the major symphonic label. I don't know how familiar you are with the RIO/Avant Prog scene, but there are some cool recent bands from there. Ahvak sounds to be pretty unique to me, and Rational Diet, a band that placed on avestin's top list this year which prompted me to check the out, are also pretty cool. http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=199629767 - http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=199629767 I apologize if you're already familiar with these bands. I know what you're feeling though and it's definitely frustrating. These recent years I am sometimes barely be able to pick out a top 3 prog albums whereas back in the 1970s I can rattle off a large list of them. I wouldn't say now is bad as it was in the 90s though... Haha. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: January 06 2009 at 10:12
It probably won't help, because I think you've been there already, but have you considered trying strange prog? 
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: January 06 2009 at 10:16
Awesome recommendations!  |
Posted By: mono
Date Posted: January 06 2009 at 10:27
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Back to the topic. I guess I'm a bit too young to talk about the old days and the new ones. But I have to say I did get a bit chocked when I started listenning to modern prog (after a long tour of the 70's). The thing is, like music in general, progressive rock broadened extremely quickly during the last 15 or 20 years, and is still, more and more. So it is very hard to find the (almost constant) basis that were in place in the 70's. Today, we have prog music (not progressive music as in the adjective) with sounds so different, and (almost) all with a will to be original. Plus, as it has been said, the techniques (recording, playback) do play a big role. Many prog musicians also became producers/mixers/engineers (that was rare in the 70's) because "sound" has become a major feature in recordings, not only in the music the musicians play. ------------- https://soundcloud.com/why-music Prog trio, from ambiant to violence https://soundcloud.com/m0n0-film Film music and production projects https://soundcloud.com/fadisaliba (almost) everything else |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: January 06 2009 at 10:34
| I don't get too concerned with what's going on with modern prog, because to be honest I just seek out what's good and I don't really care when it was made. But I think I know what you're going through, especially if you've listened to prog for years and years, you feel like everything's been done, you've heard everything you care to hear, and you want something new. Expanding to classical/jazz is something I'm just embarking on as well, although prog will continue to dominate my listening sessions for years, I expect. |
Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: January 06 2009 at 10:36
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I do not feel estranged from prog, on the contrary i love to hear more and more new bands, but of course my prog preferences will always the 70's.
-------------  |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: January 06 2009 at 10:56
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BTW: I just finished some modifications at PF (you can now select more than one tag on the charts page) and the following list might contain some interesting albums for you, Friede: http://progfreak.com/home/charts.xhtml?tags=avant_garde,experimental&g=rock&arpu=1 - http://progfreak.com/home/charts.xhtml?tags=avant_garde,experimental&g=rock&arpu=1 |
Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: January 06 2009 at 11:20
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Five years ago, I probably listened to prog about 60% of the time. Now, having added IQ, Mostly Autumn, Riverside, Iona and a few other really excellent bands to my listening agenda, it's well over 75%. I find myself even more attached to the genre now than at any time, becuase it shines out like a beacon of quality in a sea polluted predominantly by (c)rap, boy/girl bands, Indie garbage and X factor wannabes. ------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: January 06 2009 at 12:03
Yep, sounds pretty familiar territory. With regards the modern production you speak of, I do agree that many new recordings sound anodyne or sterile to my ears. I think this might just boil down to the missing inherent warmth of yesterday's analogue gear which is recognized as an almost imperceptible and very subtle distortion that we humans find musically satisfying i.e the very lack of definition on much of 70's prog gives it an organic weight that we sense in the pit of our stomachs. This feeling is absent , for me at any rate, in purely digital recordings. It is no accident that in the age of Pro Tools etc, the most sought after mastering software are digital plugins that attempt to replicate the imperfections and colourisation of the old analogue gear. Engineers the world over, are spending thousands of dollars trying to 'degrade' their squeaky clean digital recordings to make them as appealing as those of yesteryear. Of the modern prog bands touted in these very forums, I can only say that Porcupine Tree re In Absentia filled me with the same excitement as the original 70's giants, but after said milestone album PT appear to have ventured into a more metallic oriented direction. (Which ain't really my bag) Scandinavia might just be the location where the 'keepers of the flame' might emanate from, given the fertile prog activity in that part of the world lately. However, although I do think that the likes of Flower Kings, Opeth, Wobbler, Black Bonzo etc are very talented imitators, their efforts to date can hardly qualify as innovative. (But they're young - in prog terms - so don't give up hope) As for what the next genuine development will be, who knows ? but I suspect that what we subsequently come to recognise as the next prog rock of the noughties, will sound neither like YES, ELP or even prog metal but a hybrid of electronic sounds wedded to developments in contemporary classical and jazz. For what it's worth ------------- 
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Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: January 06 2009 at 12:06
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I read my posts again and I realized that I really didn't answer the original question of the thread but specific points of Friede's post. So here's my answer: I'm not feeling estranged from prog at all ... not classic prog, and certainly not modern prog. So far I've proven to be largely immune to what seems to happen to most people as they age: they get less and less flexible. I'm trying to counteract that and instead get more flexible with each new album that I listen to ... which doesn't mean that I like each and every style of music, but I'm trying to give them all a fair chance. ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: January 06 2009 at 12:15
I agree with you in most, in my teens i was more intolerant than today, now i'm more open and flexible to hear new music ------------- |
Posted By: fusionfreak
Date Posted: January 06 2009 at 12:20
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I sometimes think It will be difficult to find new things in prog but I'm not afraid since I have to look for stuff like Gentle Giant,Spectrum,Gryphon,Etron Fou Leblan,Art Zoyd......Moreover krautrock managed to renew my interest in prog so next time Musica Electronica Viva,Cerberus Shoal.....will do so.I'm also looking for great 70's hard rock acts so I'm far from getting bored of progrock! ------------- I was born in the land of Mahavishnu,not so far from Kobaia.I'm looking for the world of searchers with the help from crimson king |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: January 06 2009 at 12:23
I also was a bit less flexible in my teens - I would mostly listen to Metal and Hard Rock. But I soon got into Zappa and Dream Theater, and that opened me up to all kinds of styles. Too bad that I can't remember the proper sequence of my album purchases - it would show how my taste developed over time. <shameless plug>too bad I didn't have Progfreak.com back then! </shameless plug>------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: January 06 2009 at 13:02
It has nothing at all to do with getting less flexible; I have extended my musical experience into areas I have not been before, so I am definitely not getting less flexible. Anyway, there are always two words for everything; what some call "flexibility" others may call "arbitrariness". There is a positive and a negative word for each human quality. ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: January 06 2009 at 13:04
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I experienced this too, and solved it by simply not listening to prog for about a year and a half. Then I started revisiting some old favourites, and started looking for old bands I hadn't yet heard. That kind of solved it for me. Try to be open to other genres, "regular" music or whatever. It can seem impossible and uninteresting, but it could be worth a try if you feel stuck. |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: January 06 2009 at 13:37
I'm very sure that I'm not just "arbitrary" ... I'm actually quite particular about what I like, and what I don't like. I'm not simply listening to anything. But indeed I think you're lacking flexibility. A bit like my father in law, who hates onions. Only that he admits that it's a personal "flaw" or "quirk" that he hates onions ... he would never tell others to avoid onions. Yet you keep reminding people how ridiculous double bass drumming is ... Let's not talk about special techniques or styles of music here, it's been done to death in other threads. But I think that it's a basic fact that the musical landscape has changed a lot over the last decades. The spirit of the original prog movement was indeed one of exploration and development, and when you look for modern prog music you should expect it to be really different from the original prog music. As far as The Red Masque is concerned, I'd even be tempted to call them Retro ... although I'll happily admit that their style is quite timeless, I would also say that they don't add much to what all the other prog bands did before them. You'll find plenty of prog bands in the Symphonic/Eclectic/Avant area that sound like them, but you'll find few metal bands who are quite like Mastodon. I don't mean that *they* are re-inventing the musical wheel, I just mean that they surprise me and really put a smile on my face when I'm listening to them. If you're so apalled by their metal elements, you can go to their http://www.myspace.com/mastodon - Myspace page and listen to Sleeping Giant or This Mortal Soil. ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: limeyrob
Date Posted: January 06 2009 at 13:56
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It's not that I am getting estranged from prog, it is getting that I am becoming estranged from a lot of rock music. Not because the music is getting any worse but solely because of the really naff drumming that seems to be dominating things. The industry seems, to my hearing, to be dominated by talentless drummers who only seem capable of tapping out a naff beat on the snare drum which spoils what is really some good music. Also the overuse of high hat cymbals is severely degrading my enjoyment of the music.
For some reason the sound engineers turn up the volume of the snare and cymbals which dominate the music and really gets on my nerves. The sound made by the snare and cymbals is totally incongruous with the rich sounds of the other instruments - probably because there is no sustain in the case of the snare and the there is little warning when the cymbals are crashed.
As an example I have just been listening to the track from new album by Believe on MySpace. See what I mean! What annoying drumming. No way will I be tempted to buy this album because I know that I will be annoyed by the end of it - that's if I reach the end - which I won't cos I'm not going to buy it. Other examples include Magenta - Seven and Salva - Left to Burn.
There is a saying in our part of the world. 'Yorkshire born and Yorkshire bred - strong in the arm and thick in the head'. 'ap'n Yorkshire should be replaced by drummer or engineer.
I know that I am getting grumpier in my old age but also I am getting a great sense of waste and the naff drumming/cymbals is certainly a waste of what is really very good music.
I like to listen to music and concentrate on all the layers - probably why I like prog so much - but the sound of the snare and cymbals really puts me off.
As you will have gathered by now this is something I feel really strongly about. The snag is that I can't see it getting any better. Hence my estrangement.
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: January 06 2009 at 14:20
I guess I'm too fickle to get entrenched into one genre to become inured by it, so cannot imagine ever becoming fed-up with the way any particular quarter of Prog is going at any moment in time - but even then I can always pull out a CD from the rack that is diametrically opposite to whatever I've temporarily lost interest in, either from the past or from the present day... and if that fails, even something I've recorded myself (if only to remind myself how good the professionals are  ).
I can't recommend artists that could reignite the spark for you, I'm sure they are out there somewhere, but what touches the spot for me would not be right for you - however, not all modern bands record pristine note-perfect but ultimately soulless music - some still live on the edge; some bands still record albums "live" in the old fashioned way (or at least lay-down the rhythm section [drum, bass and rhythm guitar] in one go); some bands still experiment with what is acceptable and with what is unacceptable - just don't go looking for it in all the usual places.
Perhaps you can finish the Bald Angels CD  ------------- What? |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: January 06 2009 at 14:34
I'm with you there Rob - I was evaluating an Italian band called IF for Xover the other evening ( http://www.ifsounds.com/?page_id=10 - http://www.ifsounds.com/?page_id=10 ) good music - but the overheads were unbearably high in the mix, made it very difficult to concentrate on what they were playing.  ------------- What? |
Posted By: jplanet
Date Posted: January 06 2009 at 14:53
I can relate to this to some degree, but I have some thoughts to put it in perspective: Think of how estranged prog fans felt in the 80's - with Yes putting out Drama with Trevor Horn, Genesis' very commercial sound, ELP going bankrupt and putting out Love Beach. Jethro Tull winning "Best Heavy Metal Album". It was a sad time. And the production values back then were even worse - all of the Moogs were replaced by tinkly-sounding DX7's, Mellotrons replaced by cheap samplers, electronic drums coming into the picture, etc. Now, there is so MUCH prog, and so many different strains of it available, thanks to the internet and mp3 revolution....so the genre is actually big enough now where we have so many sub-genres of prog that are based in different creative approaches. So, in the bad sense, it is a divided community - the prog fans who do not like avant garde probably dislike it more than your average person, and the avant-garde fans dislike retro more than your average non-prog fan. The good side of this is, for whatver brand of prog you identify with, there is probably more good music put out each year than you could possibly ever have time to listen to...it just takes more searching, especially since most of these releases are not from labels that do a lot of promotion - they are usually from labels with no budget for promotion, or released by the bands themselves. ------------- https://www.facebook.com/ShadowCircus/" rel="nofollow - ..::welcome to the shadow circus::.. |
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: January 06 2009 at 15:33
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Not to forget that there is more prog available today in the form of remasters, lost classics etc.being re-released by labels such as Wounded Bird than was available than at any given time during these "sad times". And this is all courtesy of the evil internet. So I guess it`s good for something. I had to scour used record stores to find s*** back then. I think Marillion saved the day for a while. You can`t deny they got a lot out of the Yamaha hardware they were using. As for Drama. Man! Was I worried about that one and I`m sure some record execs lost some sleep over it as well. But it`s got to be one of my favourite Yes albums of all time! Really. I was just listening to it the other day in it`s CD format where the bonus tracks outnumber the original studio album tracks. Trevor Horn even sounded like Jon Anderson especially live. I liked the hard edge they came back with after Tormato which wasn`t exactly their magnus opus. You gotta love it when a band shows up with an old moog or Hammond. I think Thijs van Leer of Focus tours with an old Hammond he used during the seventies. Why I`ll never tire of Prog/art rock is because I`m stuck in the seventies. I`m in stasis. A holding pattern. (With the exception of a few bands )------------- |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: January 06 2009 at 16:03
| I don't see music in terms of 'prog' or 'not prog', but more in terms of what intrigues and interests me. That said, is site has broadened my horizons a lot, and helped me explore genres I was completely unfamiliar with in the past. There is such a huge variety of styles covered by the umbrella of 'prog' that I would find it almost impossible to actually tire of it. Even though I am a fan of Seventies prog (like most people of my generation), I am also more than willing to get acquainted with new bands without making too many comparisons. |
Posted By: MovingPictures07
Date Posted: January 06 2009 at 16:27
I feel very similarly as you do, Mike. ------------- 
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Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: January 06 2009 at 16:46
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This goes for BaldFriede. You might want to try Grayceon, I think they sound very raw, in a early ´70 way... probably cause they couldn´t affort something better jejeje But it does have another feel to it, which is more... organic maybe, as you say. You might like them. As for me, I LOOOOOOOOVEEE modern production (if done right). I think certain artist just get so much more out of their music because of it. Bands like Radiohead, Porcupine Tree, Ulver just to name a few... I really can´t relate to you cause I don´t have that problem. But I do know that you don´t like a lot of genres, like metal (and yes, you can argue how High Tides was metal ) and others. You tend to be more oriented toward Kraut, Psychodelia and more atonal music. Because of this you might see as there are no more interesting bands for you cause... well, much of that music (for some reason...) is not being done today. Which is also good I think, youhave to move forward, cause if not you end up being Neo (snap!) jejeje------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: January 06 2009 at 17:07
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In my 30 or so years of prog freakdom, I've honesly never become estranged. That's an estrange concept to me.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: January 06 2009 at 17:22
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I can appreciate your feelings here. But I would say that once you have listened to a certain amount of prog albums and bands, that you're going to hit a 'wall" where you find that most acts don't offer anything more than what you're already heard done before, or done better. My experience has been that it happens no matter the genre, in my case the hard rock & Heavy Metal scen. And recently having stumbled upon some 70s prog obscurities like Orion, Odyssee, and Rainbow Theater, I've come to believe that even a favourite prog sub-genre of mine - Symphonic, has its' share of bad & mediocre albums. The first two are decent, but nothing that will excite the Symphonic fan. I even went back and listened to groups like Pentacle & Memoriance and found them to be average. But they are now in my collection, and so every now & then, they'll get their turn. So really, if you're at that point, what I do now is go back and play a lot of the albums that I haven't given that many listens so far (VDGG's Pawn Hearts is still ebing given a chance to grow on me, while World Record already has). And as for the production, I would say that you are among the many who miss the analog recordings, even when they weren't as pristine, clear or whatever term is used when praising modern music production techniques. We've seen that with the Genesis remaster box sets, where they've actually re-mixed the albums. So you end up with a "better" sound, but not the one that you necessarily fell in love with when you first heard the LP or CD. ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: Dim
Date Posted: January 06 2009 at 18:07
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Yeah I feel estranged from prog, like I've said a couple times now, it's practically a chore for me to get through a classic prog album. 70's music just doesnt touch me anymore, I think it has something to do with what many have said earlier in this thread though.
Production quality nowadays has incredibly improved since the seventies, some like the muddier, more "organic" sound of the old analog equipment. I for one love modern recording, and its techniques. you can make a much more diverse, and dense atmosphere. See with the older bands, you cant really talk about the atmoshpere, in the sense modern music does, simply because it just wasnt possible then. The best part about modern recording is (even though there will be some who refuse to admit it) you can get the same earthy sound out of it as you did in the seventies ie Wolves in the throne room.
Influences also play a huge role in the music that I listen to. One reason why I cant stand listening to the classic rock stations at home anymore is because almost every band has a huge blues influence, and I'm so sick of it, and the same goes for prog. Today, you can get straight up rock influences, jazz rock influences (not the stingy seventies kind), metal, and other forms of playing that venture outside these dominant few ie Math rock and post rock.
Yes I do feel estranged from prog, but only because I found modern music (outside of prog), because not only do they not have the limitations shoddy recording quality or the same influences, but I just like the music more. Rock has evolved so much in the last forty years, and I love that, and I prefer not to keep myself in one section of time. ------------- 
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Posted By: Anirml
Date Posted: January 06 2009 at 18:47
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I love you! I mean your opinion. I'm a drummer too, btw
 . Sorry for bad english, I'm not so good at it. |
I absolutely agree! I'm 20 and don't like the loudness and metallization that many modern prog bands use. The "Machine-alike" playing on drums, seem to go again in many modern prog bands. The double bass drum often ruins the melody (and all other good stuff) and makes bands very familiar imo. Often I don't feel anything when I hear their music. It sounds like they are a machine or something (And it's very, very often the drums that ruins it for me). Also the 70 didn't have the same loudness, today it seem that the higher volume the better music *sigh*. Loudness and metallization is very popular nowadays and it seems to me that we have learned very little from the 70's music!Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: January 06 2009 at 22:39
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I know your tates in music just from seeing your replies and thoughts over the years.I genuinely feel bad for you or anyone who feels that their music isn't being made anymore. I remember being in my late teens in the the late seventies and actually right on through to almost the mid eighties how much joy i got out of SABBATH,FLOYD,ZEPPELIN,RUSH,MAIDEN,AC/DC etc. and then by the late eighties all but giving up on music.It was so depressing for me.I didn't know back then about progressive music,all i knew my music wasn't fashionable anymore. That's why i'm so passionate about prog.I didn't discover it until i was in my fourties but that joy i once had in music when i was young is back in a big way. I've got a book shelf filled with hundreds and hundreds of what i consider 4 and 5 star cds that i hope to get to know better in the next 10 years or so. I hope you find some new bands(to you) that really get you excited. ------------- "The wind is slowly tearing her apart" "Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN |
Posted By: Mikerinos
Date Posted: January 06 2009 at 23:08
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Lately I've been getting more into stuff like psychedelic, indie, post-punk, electronic, classical, jazz, ambient, etc. I still love some prog, like VdGG, Yes, Genesis, PF, etc. and definitely the kraut, experimental, and weird stuff, but some of it I don't really care for as much anymore. I don't mind really, I think as a whole I've been getting into much more music than growing out of, and I even appreciate metal and "neo" prog on occasion, but pretty rarely honestly. Progs still my favorite genre, and I don't think that will change for a while. I'd like to get into more stuff though, mostly non-prog but still a lot of prog. My favorite bands are still mostly prog, although I think it's great having diverse taste (prog is a diverse genre, but there is a lot more out there). ------------- 
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Posted By: BroSpence
Date Posted: January 06 2009 at 23:19
| Well if it comforts you I haven't heard any bands in the last year or two maybe that are that impressive or enjoyable. Maybe one or two, but I honestly can not think of one of the top of my head. However, I've heard plenty of great new albums in the past two years. I haven't really done much searching for any new groups to obsess over though, but thats partially because I've found it rather discouraging and almost useless. At least at the mainstream/sub-indie/indie level. I'm sure there are quite a few good bands at the ultra-indie/underground level. I'm not that worried about it though. I enjoy the music that is out, that I have, or older stuff I have yet to hear. And then I enjoy making my own music which maybe nobody else likes, but I'm not writing songs for them. So don't worry bout a-ting. |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: January 06 2009 at 23:46
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I suppose its comes in cycles. There was a slight time in the past where music in general wasn't really on my radar...stop listening to it as much as I had...seemingly less stuff on my want list...but then it just seemed to turn around as quickly as it had gone. Don't know why...didn't really discover anything that made me burst with joy, nor did I rediscover the older stuff that I've been ignoring.
Of course I'm only 20...been into music for only...fiveish years at the max...I'm only beginning to discover the journey. I still find my tastes jumping around alot. Take for instance now (and for the past six to eight months) experimental music has really come into frame for me, much more than it was. Had the same experiecne with jazz and jazz related stuff right before that. As I said, these things seem to come in cycles.
I've always had prog on the forefront (for the most part) though. I guess for me its still about discovering things. I know there is still tons of stuff out there that I havne't found yet (from today and yesterday) and that mystery keeps the excitement for me. Granted, lately I have been finding less things that really thrill me like various bands did when I was first discovering prog, but every once and awhile that one special band comes along and boom...interest explodes again. That kinda makes it all worth it.
No one really knows where modern music is going, so hopefully it will take a path in a direction you like (or at least a subsection will). Don't know what to say about the production though...I don't see that changing anytime soon. Though I agree, it is kinda strange to record the instruments seperately and just paste them over each other. Technology at work I suppose.
I probably can't recommend anything to you that you don't already know, but theres always post-rock for music that blends into itself. Especially the more heavy/epic stuff can be at times like an ocean of sound. I also like Bondage Fruit (though they've been around for awhile now) and I would say that they are the most exciting band I've heard in a long time. (You can always give a listen to my band...we record all instruments at the same time (except for a few instances of multitracking...which is still done mostly as a one shot deal in itself...can't garentee quality though.  )------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: Luke. J
Date Posted: January 06 2009 at 23:47
| I don't feel estranged from the genre (if we can call it that way, but that's another discussion) as a whole, yet the development makes it hard for me to find new or interesting bands. It all seems so forced and calculated to me, or just has nothing special about it. For instance, I recently decided to check out Pendragon, as their last album received high ratings here, as well as some previous ones did. In the end, listening to them I though that they were ok, but nothing special. That's the case with so many here. Either the modern progressive bands sound like using a seventies' formula, throw some keyboard sounds into "normal" rock, use some metal-like guitars, fasten their music so that it sounds like an LP played with 120 b/pm, drown in depression or try making their music as unlistenable as possible. The few bands that really have something special about them are hard to find, at least to me. So, I more or less continue to check out the second-class seventies bands, if you can call them that way, let's say for example Nektar: nor too obscure nor that well-known. I am not looking for pushing or even jumping over genre boarders, but for a band that has its unique sound. And this is what I miss about many modern progressive rock bands. |
Posted By: DamoXt7942
Date Posted: January 07 2009 at 00:56
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Hmm...interesting thread thanks.
As some of members here say, we can think some modern bands not as progressive rock ones, but as another genres'.
I love modern bands as much as older ones but I always try to find something new and something experimental in modern ones, and by doing so, I can love them more.
FWIW, I consider classic is one of bases of all music, and older prog is one of bases of all prog. ------------- http://www.facebook.com/damoxt7942" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: January 07 2009 at 01:49
I don't think that the community is as divided as you describe ... I hope that many people realise that you don't have to specialize in one genre alone. ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: valravennz
Date Posted: January 07 2009 at 04:06
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I understand (at least I think I do) what you are trying to say, Friede. For a good part of 2008, I almost gave up listening to prog music. I had become disinterested in all eras including the classic 70's. However, my interest was revived when I took a plunge and started to listen to "Gentle Giant" and Italian maestros, "Le Orme" and "PFM". Having not explored these areas of Prog in the past - I found I was intrigued and at the same time perturbed, that I had not discovered them earlier. Never mind - I now love the intricacies of "Gentle Giant" and the often beautiful and bombastic nuances of Italian Prog. Just when I thought there was nothing new to like or enjoy about Prog, I am rediscovering some of the older heroes and have now started listening to others such as "Nektar".
As for modern prog, not much has grabbed my attention in the past year, with the exception of "Isis" and "Frost*. I continue to follow my favourites of the "modern" prog era such as "Steven Wilson", "Porcupine Tree" and "Opeth". I know the latter are probably not your taste, but I recommend, as so many have before me, to revisit some of the older classic sub-genres and continue to keep an open mind/ear on what is being put out by modern prog groups.
I will agree that the old analogue recordings were great and gave an "earthy" quality to the music. Modern recording techniques are at times excellent - it is great to hear instruments and voices with clarity. However there is often over-manipulation of the sound eg: drums, snares, double-bass drumming, over the core of the music. I too hate this distraction and only conclude it is a deliberate attempt to sound different without success according to my ears!
I hope you continue to look for that great experimental album, Friede and continue to enjoy exploring the world of prog music ------------- 
"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence" - Robert Fripp |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: January 07 2009 at 08:45
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BTW: I did have a phase of estrangement - not only from prog, but from rock/metal in general. It happened in the early years of university (circa 1997-2001) - during those years I would listen mostly to electronic music (house/trance) or softer Rock/Pop acts, with a few exceptions only (Zappa, namely). But at some point, for no particular single reason, I awoke from that phase and started to look for rock/metal again, via file sharing (which back then was not considered to be as illegal as it is now) I discovered tons of bands which I hadn't known before. I don't regret that phase at all - it expanded my musical universe too. I still listen to those bands occasionally (examples: Faithless, The Prodigy, Underworld), or their more progressive offspring. Indeed, I don't leave genres behind ... only particular bands or albums. ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: progmetalhead
Date Posted: January 07 2009 at 10:59
Thats interesting to hear Mike.
I also listen to the bands you mention above when I want a break from rock/metal (rarely though that is). I also enjoy Massive Attack from time to time. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/colt2112" rel="nofollow - http://www.last.fm/user/colt2112 Colt - Admin Team MMA 
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Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: January 07 2009 at 11:33
This is obviously a completely subjective point since I don't agree. I tend to find loads more atmosphere in 70's recordings than in modern ones. Also, I rarely find old recordings to be "muddy". |
Posted By: Jimbo
Date Posted: January 07 2009 at 11:52
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I've felt estranged from prog for almost two years now. I consider this quite natural, seeing as how I gave it 3-4 years of my life almost exclusively. I still love the stuff I've discovered in the past, I just can't seem to find anything new anymore. In the meantime, I've pointed my direction towards other, equally interesting genres. I don't see this as a problem, I still enjoy my music just the same. I'd say just go with the flow, and let music take you to different places. I'm sure the prog bug will bite me again someday, but I'm in no hurry.
------------- 
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Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: January 07 2009 at 12:43
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I went through a John Philip Sousa Phase when I was in high school because I was learning the tuba. I couldn`t pass the pitch test but I did so well on the rythmn test that I got stuck with the bloody tuba. My high School music teacher lent me some John Philip Sousa albums and I learned to play along with stuff like King Cotton, Stars & Stripes Forever, The Thunderer and stuff like that by ear. My dad kicked me out into the back yard so I could drive the nieghbours nuts. I swear, for about two weeks I didn`t listen to anything but John Philip Sousa marches. But the novelty wore off and I soon returned to my Focus, Triumvirat, Gentle Giant, Krautrock and ELP records. I think my dad prefered the loud progrock. Likewise, I went through a Rush phase and listened to nothing but Rush when 2112 came out. I think I must listen to progrock in some form or another just about everyday. It`ll never leave me because it`s just too interesting.
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Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: January 07 2009 at 12:57
I never got into Massive Attack - I guess I was put off them by Unfinished Sympathy. Also with the artists above I'm really particular about their albums - for example I *adore* Faithless's Reverence, but I *hate* Sunday 8 p.m. (I even sold it). The Prodigy - Songs for the Jilted Generation is a masterpiece, but I can easily live without their other albums. Only Underworld were continuously great, with my favorite album being Beaucomp Fish. Other recommendations: Propellerheads - Drumsanddecksandrocknroll, Lamb - Cotton Wool, Portishead - Live ... for any of you who are tired of prog and don't know these albums yet: Give them a spin - you never know. ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: January 07 2009 at 15:33
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I've also found myself moving onto musical pastures new of late. I've been dabbling in post-punk recently (Tuxedomoon and Blurt being particular favourites right now) and generally looking for interesting and unusual music outside of the world of prog. With the exceptions of RIO and Zeuhl (which I'll probably never feel sufficiently immersed in!), I feel as though a lot of prog has offered me as much as it's ever going to. I still listen to Yes and VDGG with a fair amount of regularity but I just can't get excited about every one-album footnote of Italian Symphonic Prog and even less about a lot of current bands consciously making new "prog" albums. So much of it sounds hopelessly contrived to my jaded ears. |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: January 07 2009 at 15:44
| I've said in another thread that I find that music that fits under the prog "umbrella" (at least on this site) has such a variety of sounds, textures, and moods that there is invariably something I can find to fit whatever listening yen I have at any given time. That's not to say that I'm not also enjoying branching out into (umbrella-term) classical and jazz (particularly free jazz greats like Ayler and Coleman), but prog remains the major bulk of my listening and I still get excited about it. Of course most of what I listen to now is in the RIO/Zeuhl area as well, but I try to keep my ears and mind open to new stuff happening in other subgenres. |
Posted By: Trademark
Date Posted: January 07 2009 at 16:07
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Prog as a one-course meal will never satisfy. I've always and often taken breaks from it. Fortunately for me I don't give a rusty f**k about staying true to prog or any other genre for that matter. When I get tired of the prog I like, I find something else that excites me. At the present moment I've been re-visiting Some artists I got into about 10-15 years back when on another long hiatus from prog. It's fun to look in on some other styles and see what folks have been releasing while I was paying attention to prog. I've just picked up the last couple of releases by Richard Thompson, Bruce Cockburn, Steve Earle, Delbert McClinton, John Hiatt and Tom Waits and I'm having more fun than I've had with prog for quite a long time. This stuff feels really vital and alive right now and when I got tired of it the last time (around 1995) it didn't have that excitement. Cycles man, everything goes in cycles.
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: January 07 2009 at 23:10
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Yes... cycles.
My whole childhood and early teenage years were exclusively lived with classical music. Then metal and rock arrived and eventually Dream Theater and prog-rock. It dominated for am long time, obliterating all other genres (and my brain, as I was the kind of "prog or nothing - the rest is garbage and the others are idiots" kind of elititst fool.... But then classical music came back and erradicated prog from my life for about 2 years. Prog re-emerged from the ashes and this time it really anihiliated classical music, to the point where I haven't bought any new classical in 2 years. (and only 2 cds in the last 4).
But this time prog-rock didn't dominate exclusively and was completely an open minded affair... Rock and metal and even some more popular forms were free to arrive as i finally grew up... So it wasn't just prog anymore, even though it still dominated the T-waves about 70% of the time.
Curiously, the genre that has in the last 4 months almost crushed prog (for a while.. it's still my main dish) is extreme metal, and black metal especifically. It has been really a complete obliteration. I finally decided to submerge myself in genres I always loved (death and black, no sh*t metalcore) but never accepted the fact. Now I fully embrace all my weird musical facets.
Eventually, though, if I find a prog record in a store i always buy it. It will always be the king, though it ceased to be my one and only. I realized music such as prog can't be good all of the time. I need music that speaks to other areas of my dark mind and heart. ------------- 
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Posted By: friso
Date Posted: January 08 2009 at 05:16
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To the one who started this threat:
I feel the same as you.. the modern sound ruins prog! The mystery is gone, the magic isn't anymore. The feeling of people realy playing music. And all this happens in a time were we think we have better recording oppertunities then back in the '70. I realy wonder if all 2000 till now prog will be remembered as much as the '70 prog in about 30 years, say 2030. We will see.
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Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: January 08 2009 at 05:44
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Friede: Just as a thought; Could it be possible that you listen to TOO MANY new albums? What I'm trying to get at is that we have become so accustomed to the old albums we grew up with, that we long for more of the same. Years of repeated listenings to the old familiars create a feeling of warmth and comfort. Naturally, we look for more of the same, and so the frantic searching begins. The result is that it's possible you are torn between frantic listenings to new albums, searching for an equal feeling of familiarity, and at the same time being prevented from getting that feeling because these new albums come so thick and fast, not one of them has the chance of becoming a favorite. Perhaps because there's just no time to become intimately acquainted with it. It's a trade-off: Getting excited about new albums, wanting to get to know them, can't do that because there's other new albums, the end feeling is disappointment. Lots of new music, but there's no chance for any of this to stick. Actually, that's the situation I find myself in at the moment, so it's possible I'm only projecting. |
Posted By: DamoXt7942
Date Posted: January 08 2009 at 07:03
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Consider our feeling and fave should be altered as time goes...
Future days, it's possible you will love a new-artists' album that you could not love before ------------- http://www.facebook.com/damoxt7942" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: January 08 2009 at 10:51
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I am always looking for something new, so bands that are 100% derivative with no invention of their own have no place for me. Unfortunately, I find that to be the case with many newer bands in the classic prog sub genres (Syn, Eclectic, Neo). But estrangement would be a little harsh. Perhaps I have never enjoyed crossover, electronic and neo enough to feel estranged, as I never enjoyed tham that much in the first place. But their is enough out there to keep me interested for a lifetime(Zeuhl, Avant, Tech/Extreme). As far as other genres, I feel there is enough relation between prog and the other genres I listen to (jazz, classical) that I never stray too terribly far.
------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow">  https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: altaeria
Date Posted: January 08 2009 at 14:12
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(Great reply above from npjnpj, by the way)
Actually,
I find that many modern prog bands tend to sustain a constant "vibe" in their material
... which, for me, doesn't work as well as the more-unpredictable methods of the classic bands.
For example:
I really want to like the Mars Volta -- They do many cool quirky things --
but their approach is always IN MY FACE ... and I never get the impression that the tension breaks.
On the other hand, a band like Radiohead,
who focuses on creating atmosphere through interesting texture development, flows along nicely
... but never really shakes me ... and hardly displays any attention-grabbing virtuosity.
I like feeling up and down while listening to an album.
I like fast, slow, and mid-tempo ... maybe all in one song !
I sometimes even like to hear something being played that not many other people can play.
I especially like the POSSIBILITY of
catchy Rock hooks being followed up by melodic Classical themes and Avant Garde Jazz bursts
at any moment.
But that's just me.
 |
Posted By: Kestrel
Date Posted: January 08 2009 at 14:30
That's a problem I had with the new Cast album. I listened to the first 4 or 5 songs but had to turn it off because it was just so loud and in my face; there didn't seem to be a let up at all. Perhaps this is just a misconception of how it was going (going in and out of paying attention) but I know how you feel. |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: January 08 2009 at 15:35
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I don't feel estranged from prog.
I do often dislike the modern sound. As the years go by, I tend to listen more and more to the classic bands, and less to the modern bands. As it comes to modern music, I tend to listen more to music outside prog.
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Posted By: Tormato
Date Posted: January 09 2009 at 03:02
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Well, I have to say that this is one of the most interesting topics I've found lately in PA, and I identify myself with many of the opinions verted here, but I'm feeling kinda sleepy and lazy to rewind and find the posts I would like to quote to say ¨ I totally agree with you¨´. I will sumarize.
I have never felt estranged from prog in my life, being a prog listener since 1976. The reason is that I can find any tipe of music I feel like listening at any given time under the umbrella of prog, without need to go anywhere else (although I do listen different music genres). I mean, there are days when I feel like classical, and I can play ¨The Nice¨ or ¨Renaissance¨, but other days I'm in the mood for folk and ethnic music, and I can count with ¨Los Jaivas¨, ¨Osibisa¨ or ¨Jethro Tull¨. If I'm feeling Jazzy I have the ¨Mahavishnu Orchestra¨ or ¨Return to Forever¨, and for my metal days, well, you know better than me. I can choose my lyrics in English, Italian, French, German, Spanish, or any language, even Zeuhl. And I can go on and on with examples but I know you've got the idea.
Of course, my love for prog has worked as a door (or a hallway full of doors) to many different kinds of music styles, helping me to become from a ¨rock only¨ consumer into a person that appreciates and collects classical music, jazz, psychedelic, blues, folk, world music, ethnic, tribal, as much as more weird stuff, like all kind of experimental music, but let's be honest, it never satisfies 100% when it doesn't have its share of prog. I mean, I really like all good music, but when it's not polluted with a prog touch, or lacks any rock elements, I always have the feeling that something is missing, I really think, like I said in a post long time ago, that there is no other genre of music that encompases all the other genres. Name a type of music, and chances are that somewhere there's a prog band blending that music into their sound. Regarding the subject of new against classic bands, although in my examples I only mentioned old bands, I love the old bands for being old, as much as I love the new for being new. I have a different frame of mind for old and new. When I adopt a new band -or new to me- as one more of my children, I accept it with their sound, AS IS. Before as before, now as now.
So.....me, estranged from prog?...... nah! ------------- I like Tormato, so shoot me! Every person in the world can't think the same. |
Posted By: Avantgardehead
Date Posted: January 09 2009 at 06:59
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I don't listen to "modern prog" (note that I don't consider post-rock or avant-garde to be prog, just a taste thing). I tried it, didn't work out. The stuff just couldn't compare. But anyway, I only listen to three prog bands now and they are Genesis, King Crimson, and Gentle Giant. All great bands from '70 to '74. It's really all I need. I'm too in love with indie right now to really spend much time on prog. Though I'm still open to finding more obscure gems from the 70's! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: January 09 2009 at 10:38
That's more or less what I meant by "getting estranged to prog". A lot of the new music I listen to is not prog or barely only; Rabih Abou-Khalil for example has been included in the archives, but this is in my opinion debatable, although I love his music, so I don't complain. And I love the trio Hadouk which features Didier malherbe of Gong. or the duo RoRo, again consistng of two prog musicians, Roland Schaeffer of Guru Guru and Roman Bunka of Embryo. Or the trio Orientacion, consisitng of Bunka on oud, Luis Borda on acoustic guitar and Jost Hecker on cello; we have their only album (so far, but it looks as if it will be remain the only one, since Bunka continues with Borda as a duo). This is the music which interests me now. So I am actually broadening my horizon. ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: January 09 2009 at 11:36
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I have nothing against reproducing every instrument clearly but that it goes along with a wholly digital sound. You - Baldfriede - bring up an interesting point about live recordings. I have not been fortunate to see prog bands - old or new - but I saw Iron Maiden on their Matter of Life and Death tour and Scorpions on their Humanity tour. I must say the songs from their then newly released albums sounded much better in the concert ambience than in the studio cuts. And in case you are thinking this has to do with the crowd euphoria which can tend to make live performances sometimes seem better than they really are, I must point out that they also played their classics in the concert and I wasn't necessarily satisfied with all their renditions. It may be a little far fetched to ascribe attributes to what made it sound better, but organic may be just the word that describes it - note that AMOLAD is by recent metal recording trends, quite organic - sounding. There's a tendency these days to attempt to magnify a song's appeal with some sort of artificial effects like drastically fading out the sound or increasing the volume though the instruments have not necessarily fallen silent or increased in intensity - done quite transparently in Humanity Hour I. It was done in the 70s too but to a lesser extent and the trend has probably accentuated over the years - the 70s just happen to be the time when prog had its big shout. 70s prog - the classic, popular bands - was considerably more "cryptic" - for want of a better word - than the well known prog bands of today, but well, they probably didn't leave too many avenues to explore for the bands to come so these new bands have sought a new direction. And I have come to realize that unlike in the 70s, a modern prog band being well known is no assurance of their being great, they may just have a noisier fanbase than other bands, that's all. Which just means one has to search harder for gems in new prog...which is exciting for me who am still young with lot many years of music exploration still to me...perhaps tiresome for you at this juncture and less appealing than exploring jazz/classical.
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Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: January 09 2009 at 12:00
And lots of other stuff, especially ethnic music, but also modern so-called "classical" stuff, which, believe me, has very little to do with what people expect when they think of "classical" music. ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: January 09 2009 at 12:11
I think the biggest problem over the years, and I have been at it since the 70's, is the tendency to pigeonhole music and then ... (American bad habit) make it sound the same!
I remember when I was hearing Amon Duul 2 in 1974 ... and thinking ... this is massively experimental, gutsy, far out ... and so progressive that most ears can't handle it. Sure the vocals are strange ... but then, wasn't Dagmar the same thing? Experimentation is just that ... expanding the horizons in any art form ... and when we look at some lists, and the "prog" bands still sound like someone else, not themselves ... one wonder if it is prog at all ...
I don't think it is!
I thought that Guru Guru in those days was a massive progression of the likes of Jimi Hendrix that inspired Ax Gernreich and so many others in Germany ...
I thought that Egberto Gismonti was turning Jazz and Classical music on its ears ... check out "No Caipira" and see if you can handle jazz meets Villa Lobos, meets Stravinsky meets bossa nova ... heck check out his solo guitar stuff ... it's so progressive and out there that no one else can play it!
I thought that Amon Duul 2, Can were so progressive in their rock experimentation that the radio was gonna burst ... heck, we were the only people playing them too! Check that ... I caught Capt Midnight playing AD2 one night the day that Vive La Trance came out ... he played "Mozambique" ...
Next to regular radio ... this is out there.
I have been listening to Live 365 and some other prog outlets ... and you know what my disappointment is? The majority of these folks can only play 4 or 5 minute cuts ... they still can't enjoy "music" ... it has to be compartmentalized and sectioned for you ... and in the end, you will get bored with these ...
End of Prog ... long live prog.
I'm glad personally ... there is no musician out there that plays music because it is "prog" ... you play music because it is the way you like it and want it ... you never called King Crimson progressive (Robert will probably slap you and ask you ... do you ever "hear" the music?) ...
About the quality of artists ... since the 70's the proliferation has gotten much wider. Maybe it was that the visibility of these artists worldwide is now musch better than it was then ... we have things like the Internet and we can pretty much catch anything and see anyone from any country ... and that makes it somewhat harder to distinguish between good music and bad music ... and sometimes folks will justify their liking because of the label on the music ... and that's not fair ...
It's ok to say that you like something personally ... it hits an internal chord ... sometimes you know what that chord is and sometimes you don't ... you just like it ... that's ok ... is it good or bad ... is it progressive or not ... it's immaterial ... it's music ... it's art ... it's someone's heart ... thank them for being kind enough for wanting to touch you and so many others ... that is indeed a gift.
Academic ideas ... are just that ... and there is a validity to it ... labelling the ear of the Beethoven's and Tchaikovsky's and what not makes it easier to understand what the music sensibilities were and what the peculiarities were, which became the definition of that particular period.
Progressive music, was originally used as an "excuse" to justify playing long cuts on radio. Pretty soon, when the new (then) FM waves became commercialized, it got plastered with the same sh*t as the AM waves ... and many folks thought that "better music" by better musicians was more important ... and a progressive label stuck ...
One more thing ... about that label ... there is a lot of music in Europe that is cross cultured ... and it is often depicted as "progressive" when in essence it is just an instrument, or a stylized something that is akin to a different culture ... it was one of the fascinating things ... when in 1968 and 1969, many folks were calling Aphrodite's Child, Magma and so many others ... progressive ... when in essence they were not even close ... they were more classically inspired than progressive in my book ... in their very own way.
Modern example ... Dream Theater ... it's tough not to appreciate musicianship and admire it being played live ... and sometimes I wonder if I just like the musical attacks and incredible strength displayed by it ... not just loudness of sound, but also a quality that is reminiscent of The Who (they played it on an encore with Queensryche btw ... ) in their early days ... it is progressive in a compositional sense ... you're insane if you are going to sit here and learn to play this ... period! But, more than it being progressive, it is a very nice academic and educated (and intelligent) aproach to music ... and saying that it is or is not prog ... is sad indeed.
It's all about music folks ... and the love that we all have for it.
There is no better or worse ... lest you sit here and go laugh at The Portsmouth Symphonia ... and then you might learn that the joke is on you!
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Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: January 09 2009 at 12:54
Is the music really that different? Seems to me like you're simply sticking with your idols. Not that there would be anything wrong with that, but I don't think that it broadens your horizon all that much. ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: January 09 2009 at 13:07
Is prog metal really that different? Rather not, to be honest, and harmonically most prog metal is very very retro. And yes, I know there are exceptions, but as a rule of thumbs it is quite true, But that just shows how perceptions can differ. You think prog metal is different. Well, so be it then. Also I am not just sticking with my idols; I have discovered lots of music from artists I had not known before. You are jumping to conclusions. ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: January 09 2009 at 14:31
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I don't really know what you're talking about there ... I never said that prog metal is "that different" (I wouldn't even know what I should compare it to). I just think that I'm broadening my horizon more than you do, because I impose fewer "hard" limits (like instruments/sounds or techniques) on what I'm listening to. You may be broadening your horizon, but within a (from my point of view) limited scope. |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: January 09 2009 at 14:38
But how can you say that, not knowing what kind of artists I have discovered? As I said, you are jumping to conclusions. You judge without having any idea! I would honestly have expected better from you. ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: January 09 2009 at 14:56
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I somewhat agree that some modern prog sounds organic, but I still listen to prog a lot...
------------- 
Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: January 09 2009 at 15:12
I was merely commenting on the artists you mentioned in the post. Aren't you jumping to conclusions by assuming that I think that those are the only new ones you listened to? My *guess* is that you have indeed discovered many new artists, but most of them are closely connected to your favorite styles of classic prog, either by the artists performing it, or by the style itself. But indeed, this is just a guess of mine based on my previous experiences with you ...  BTW: I'd be glad to know about all the artists you're discovering ... and of course I would be glad if you entered some of them at Progfreak.com.  ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: January 09 2009 at 15:48
One way of discovering new artists is to follow all the collaborations of the artists you know; many of them seek to expand their musical horizon, so you will wind up with lots of new names you have not heard before simply by following all those new connections. The net is ever growing that way, and you land in territory you had no idea you ever would land in. But you also come across other artists by listening to certain radio stations. That way I discovered Rabih Abou-Khalil, for example, I discovered Michel Godard and his many different projects, I discovered Hille Perl and Lee Santana, who are also definitely not prog (some would label them "classical" and couldn't be more wrong), I discovered Gianluigi Trovesi and his many side projects. All these artists just don't happen to fall into prog, and it is very difficult to tell what they really fall into. Do you honestly expect me that I should desperately try to discover artists which are prog? No, I go whichever way I am being carried, and if my path carries me away from prog, that's fine with me. Just because you like double bass-drumming and I don't doesn't make you have a broader horizon, and being a drummer myself I think I have all the right to turn up my nose to double bass-drumming. ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: January 10 2009 at 02:57
I have no expectations at all - you can do whatever you want. I just think that you impose a lot more hard limits on which music you're going to explore (regardless of whether you'd call it prog). And just because you're a drummer doesn't give your opinion against double bass drumming more weight - if anything, it makes it even more peculiar, because you won't find many drummers who would agree with you. Many polls were made here in the forum which confirm that, and if you examine drummer magazines and publications I'm very sure you won't find any which say that the entire technique is ridiculous. Getting back to the original subject: I think I can understand why you're getting estranged from prog ... especially the modern bands simply use too many of the techniques which you can't tolerate. A lot of modern non-prog music uses them too, so you're left with exploring the realm of "Post Krautrock" or "Post/Minimalistic Classical/World/Independent" by artists who reject modern music/technology. *That* is what I mean by broader horizon - I simply have more to chose from than you, at least it seems so to me. ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: January 10 2009 at 04:27
| I can't help feeling that this thread is proof that almost no one checks out Avestin's recommendation threads. |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: January 10 2009 at 04:38
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^ or my website. Or the PA reviews. Let's face it, there are so many sources of information, you can't check out all of them thoroughly. Currently there are more than 850 albums of 2008 in the PF database ...
------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: January 10 2009 at 04:50
| You don't need to check everything out thoroughly, just the areas you'd consider of special interest to you. And this is hardly daunting; it's mainly about getting off your you-know-what... |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: January 10 2009 at 04:54
let me start this in a different way so you may see what this is all about. you doubtlessly know the classical violin virtuoso Anne-Sophie Mutter. she is doubtlessly a virtuoso, and she is absolutely unmistakable for her tone; you just have to hear a few notes and are able to say "ah, this is Mutter"; even someone who is not so familiar with classical music could probably do it. many music critics, however, criticize exactly that tone, calling it a "mannerism". do those critics who think so have a quirk? or do rather those who like this specific tone have a quirk? I am not answering that, because I think you can't answer that, but is the fact that some people call it a "mannerism" a limitation to their musical experience? hardly. well, for us double bass-drumming is a mannerism. it is as simple as that. we have both conceded that there may be situations when double bass-drumming is adequate; the way it is generally used, however, it is nothing but a cheap gimmick.. you are, as far as i know; a guitar player, and you probably know a lot of cheap tricks on guitar too which make you sound good to the ears of anyone who does not play this instrument but which only would make you laugh if you heard it; I certainly know some such techniques for the piano. mark that I am not saying that all the drummers who use double-bass drumming use it to sound better than they are; there are certainly many excellent ones among them. but it does not put aside the fact that a double bass-drum thunderstorm will let the jaws of a lot of people who do not play drums drop while someone who is a drummer him/herself would merely shrug. also: if double bass-drumming is really so essential as you put it, why do so many excellent drummers decide to play with a single bass drum only? do they all limit themselves in your opinion, even when they use dozens of other techniques? to repeat it again: Friede and I are not against the use of double bass-drumming per se. but if it is done all the time it is notorious and like a duck quack on a keyboard. this does not limit our musical experience in the least; liking everything is mere arbitrariness. or are you telling me that you like everything that is done on guitar? I would sincerely doubt that, because that would certainly mean arbitrariness. anyway, to deduct that you have a broader listening experience just because you like double bass-drumming is simply ridiculous. check yourself: are there really no things in music which you dislike? and if you dislike them, does this make it a quirk of you? nonsense -------------  A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: January 10 2009 at 04:56
| ^ but how do you filter all the information? I could check out Avestin's thread, Erik's thread, and many other individuals who publish high quality recommendations. At Progfreak.com I try to connect all the information in a form that can be better "digested", but only few people take advantage of it. |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: January 10 2009 at 05:35
you can only listen to so much music. do you listen to every single style of music? hardly, it is simply impossible. you either have good knowledge of certain styles or a superficial one of many. we all have to limit ourselves to certain kinds of music, you as much as I. I don't criticize you for not knowing some of the music I have chosen to listen to. a month has 720 hours; even if you dedicate half of your time to listening to music, and only to new releases, this gives you occasion to listen to approximately 360 releases per month only (let's for the sake of simplicity assumed the average playing time of an album is approximately an hour), and only once, and you will not be able to listen to any of the music you already own, and even this would be only is a small fraction of what is being published monthly. so indeed, how does one filter? listening to the radio is most important for us; many of the artists we discovered we discovered via radio. others we discovered by what I call "branching out". you like musician A, who on one of his albums plays with musician B, so you decide to listen to the albums of B. B plays with C on one or more of his or her albums, and so on. this can lead you into very interesting musical territory, completely different from anything you have heard before. and of course the archives offer lots of new suggestions too ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: January 10 2009 at 05:56
Of course, I agree completely. Considering the number of albums and styles, you inevitably specialize in some styles. But that doesn't mean that I have to stay within the boundaries of the styles I specialized in ... hopefully you listen to music over several decades, and that leaves plenty of room to discover new styles. I have a firm knowledge in Metal and Hard Rock, but I also know a lot about modern Electronic music, and I've spent a fair amount of time listening to Classical and Jazz. However, you're very right in pointing out that one shouldn't criticize others for not checking out enough styles or albums ...
Absolutely ... (see next paragraph)
... the problem is that listening to music and reading lengthy reviews or forum threads are really time consuming tasks. What I am trying to do with all the rating and tagging is to offer a better overview over what's happening. If you like, you can have a look at the new ProgRadar feed that I built last week: http://progfreak.com/srv/progradar.xml - http://progfreak.com/srv/progradar.xml The difference to "ordinary" review lists is that each album is only shown once, when it is first tagged as prog. You can use the feed to check out new albums, and the tags assigned by the users give you a first impression of what to expect. You can go to the myspace page and check the music out for yourself ... it doesn't really take much time to browse this feed, and if you install it in the feed reader of your choice you get a really neat overview over what's happening in regard to new releases. Of course the feed depends on the contribution of all the users ... You mentioned that numerically speaking it's not possible to listen to all new albums. But if a large number of users, all specialized in different genres and styles, do this listening and submit the information into one large database - then such "digests" can be generated. You'll still listen to samples, but you can skip many albums based on the tags. |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: January 10 2009 at 07:05
Yes, of course, I see what you mean. So my situation is not as different as your situation. I myself am more interested right now in artists like Sufjan Stevens, who do something different completely, than a lot of new prog bands.
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Posted By: cobb2
Date Posted: January 10 2009 at 20:22
| Totally off thread and info for Mr Progfreak. Your linked page shows as code only in Opera and Chrome. It displays correctly in IE and Firefox. Don't know whether you care about losing these particular browsers, but it ain't working on them. |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: January 11 2009 at 02:18
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We should probably continue discussion about ProgRadar in the separate thread that I created in the "Get the Word Out" section ... let me just say here that it should work in Opera now. Unfortunately it doesn't work in Chrome - which is not my fault, because what I linked to is not really a web page, but a RSS feed - and Chrome does not currently support them. See the separate thread about a short introduction to RSS ... :-) BTW: Most of my website should work with Opera, except for the review editor. It's not really my fault though, and I'm not willing to spend hours of programming so that 2% of all my visitors are more happy. If you want to use a free, open source browser: Firefox is the best solution! ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: SickMyDuck
Date Posted: January 13 2009 at 06:14
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What originnally brings up people to prog is the unique experience of changing tempo, weird chords, uncommon drum patterns, different song construction, and on. What might be happening to you is just that it doesn't excite you as much as it originally did, as you have 'digged' into it. Its quite logical that you'll be starting listening to jazz, classical music, etc, for new horizons. What i may suggest you is trying to stop putting music in a genre, i mean, if you like a song, don't mind if it's from the seventies, or is it new, or wondering if a disc is more likely in jazz experimentation than prog, etc. Just listen and try to enjoy the music without labeling it, it may work, if you mood this day, this week or even a year is listening to jazz songs, well, just do it, and about new bands and stuff, mmm, i can really recommend you an awesome musician from Argentina called Luis Alberto Spinetta. This should keep you entertained if you like his music, since he has more than 30 discs. This artist goes from rock to prog, from jazz rock to blues. Here i'll put some media for you to give it a try =) To start, this track is a classic from the 70's that incorporates a bit of 'tango' into it, surely very interesting http://www.imeem.com/cortadoenjarrito/music/82BadMbq/luis_alberto_spinetta_invisible_los_libros_de_la_buena_mem/ - http://www.imeem.com/cortadoenjarrito/music/82BadMbq/luis_alberto_spinetta_invisible_los_libros_de_la_buena_mem/ This track is from 1973 http://www.imeem.com/people/1Roungo/music/LdKI0M3o/pescado_rabioso_amame_peterib/ - http://www.imeem.com/people/1Roungo/music/LdKI0M3o/pescado_rabioso_amame_peterib/ If you liked it, you surely will be pleased to listen this, its from the nineties http://www.imeem.com/people/1Roungo/music/ho1sFJ0P/spin_5bosnia/ - http://www.imeem.com/people/1Roungo/music/ho1sFJ0P/spin_5bosnia/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1kW5NrrK-0&feature=PlayList&p=D40D3830456B554B&playnext=1&index=4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1kW5NrrK-0&feature=PlayList&p=D40D3830456B554B&playnext=1&index=4 This musician has been playing from 40 years ago, and he stills rocks! Here you can listen something from his latest disc, released few months ago. http://www.imeem.com/people/xmkfCHy/music/xX6U0WCz/luis_alberto_spinetta_07_un_maanamp3/ - http://www.imeem.com/people/xmkfCHy/music/xX6U0WCz/luis_alberto_spinetta_07_un_maanamp3/ As a little 'bonus' here you can listen to another great artist that is more 'prog' called Charly Garcia, also argentinian, i love his work, this is some from his seventies band: http://www.imeem.com/tomymusica/music/YkEKNuPp/la_maquina_de_hacer_pjaros_hipercandombe/ - http://www.imeem.com/tomymusica/music/YkEKNuPp/la_maquina_de_hacer_pjaros_hipercandombe/ http://www.imeem.com/tomymusica/music/A-smNSYf/la_maquina_de_hacer_pjaros_ruta_perdedora/ - http://www.imeem.com/tomymusica/music/A-smNSYf/la_maquina_de_hacer_pjaros_ruta_perdedora/ http://www.imeem.com/people/K2hJeVR/music/MJis3iH7/casicarioblogspotcom_ah_te_vi_entre_las_luces - http://www.imeem.com/people/K2hJeVR/music/MJis3iH7/casicarioblogspotcom_ah_te_vi_entre_las_luces This is from an unplugged he recorded 10 years ago. http://www.imeem.com/people/77P84y/music/GVpuNm-e/charly_garcia_pasajera_en_trance/ - http://www.imeem.com/people/77P84y/music/GVpuNm-e/charly_garcia_pasajera_en_trance/ Well, i hope this helped, and im very sorry if i misunderstodd what made you start the thread. Hopefully you'll enjoy the tracks and listen to some cds from these artist, ill be glad if any of the people that listened to them actually starts listening them, to me, they are probably the greatest argentinian musicians together with astor piazzolla. Bye and thanks for reading/listening. ------------- To build a castle... on the sand |
Posted By: JP312
Date Posted: January 13 2009 at 14:55
| I hardly consider myself an expert, but my sense of what has happened with rock music in general (not necessarily just prog) is that most "new" rock bands have 2 or 3 generations of rock bands to be influenced by (or occasionally, to rebel against). The early rock bands were heavily influenced by genres other than rock because the established legacy of rock wasn't in place yet; they created it. the downside to this idea is that it seems like a genre can play itself out, and maybe that's what's happened to rock by this point (after nearly half a century, which really isn't a bad run). |
Posted By: XunknownX
Date Posted: January 13 2009 at 15:00
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...what a boring thread...
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: January 13 2009 at 19:47
How boring your life must be, boring man, that you visit boring threads just to say how boring they are. And your boring existence depends on people realizing that you're just another un-original boring internet troll.
Boredom reigns supreme -------------
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Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: January 13 2009 at 19:55
We might as well just kill ourselves now and save the trouble. Violence is never boring! ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: January 13 2009 at 20:00
| ^Lmao! |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: January 13 2009 at 20:16
lesson: never mess with anyone whose location is "Hell"  |
Posted By: DamoXt7942
Date Posted: January 13 2009 at 21:01
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For people who are restricted by prog strictly, the thread is boring, isn't it?
Ah...for me, it's interesting this can widen my window of experience and opportunity. ------------- http://www.facebook.com/damoxt7942" rel="nofollow">
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