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Plankowner View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2008 at 02:26
See that Massacre logo?  I designed that when I was 16 or so...
 
Here's the original design, I used the letters "assa" like brass knuckles on a demon's hand...
 
 
A cleaner look of the logo...


Edited by Plankowner - December 30 2008 at 02:44
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2008 at 02:37
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

I wish I had been there when my dad passed away 18 years ago, I wasn't, that single fact still hurts me to this day.


Same here. I lost my grandfather two years ago and wasn't around during his last moments because I stay a 1000 miles away.  He was suffering from cancer and I had visited him two months ago knowing he wouldn't be much longer. But I guess the full import didn't hit home until the moment arrived and I regret not spending every moment of my visit by his bedside.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2008 at 04:16
Hum...there're many different opinions...
 
I love Carcass, especially the vocalist Jeff Walker, and consider their music style (in the period of "Necroticism - Descanting The Insalubrious") is progressive.
Indeed their death-medical lyrics feel funny for me as a physician, but I suggest it is exactly their strategy for sale.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2008 at 05:53
God damn David you got some real talent there. Nice stuff and the collage is beautiful ( yes I said beautiful. Some of us disturbed metalheads find things like that beautifulLOL)
 
Concerning the lyrics debate in Death metal there are lots of Death metal bands who concentrate on other topics. Mostly dark, bizarre and taboo filled topics ( take a listen to Club Mondo Bizarre by Pungent Stench) but also really interesting/ serious topics like politics ( Napalm Death, Nasum) or more spiritual subjects ( Atheist, Cynic, Pestilence). Thereīs a primal urge/ need in every human to explore the dark sides of life and itīs just a matter of personal belief and interest how far you take it. Some only dip their toes and others like myself take a long, long swim. The important thing to remember is that itīs a personal choice. You can still be a normal human being with family and kids and listen to acts like Carcass and Cannibal Corpse. Itīs not like I show the original LP covers from Carcass Reek of Putrefaction and Symphonies of Sickness ( the meat collages), Autopsyīs Acts of the Unspeakable or Butchered at Birth by Cannibal Corpse to my kids, but I wonīt deny them access to my record collection ( and the many, many extreme lyrics and covers that are present in that collection)when I feel that they are old/ mature enough to understand the difference between fiction and reality. Dialogue and education is the way forward, not censorship and closeminded bigotry. There will always be a small percentage of kids/ young people who canīt handle being exposed to some of the things that I mention above, but should the rest of us be denied access because of this? As I mentioned above dialogue and education will in most cases build strong kids who understand the difference between fiction and reality. I have a large amount of friends who have been listening to extreme metal for years and none have turned out violent. They are not in any way different from the friends I have who havenīt listened to extreme metal.
 
Iīve attended many metal concerts through the years as well and been part of many mosh-pits and never have I seen REAL violence at any of those concerts ( Good Friendly Violent Fun to quote the Exodus classic Toxic Waltz, but not real violence). In fact I think extreme metal is healthy for most people. We as humans are aggressive by nature ( even the sweetest and most likable human being has this side) and especially the male part of the population deal with those emotions. Listening to Metal music is a great way to release aggressions in a positive way IMO.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2008 at 06:55
Originally posted by UMUR UMUR wrote:

 
Iīve attended many metal concerts through the years as well and been part of many mosh-pits and never have I seen REAL violence at any of those concerts ( Good Friendly Violent Fun to quote the Exodus classic Toxic Waltz, but not real violence). In fact I think extreme metal is healthy for most people. We as humans are aggressive by nature ( even the sweetest and most likable human being has this side) and especially the male part of the population deal with those emotions. Listening to Metal music is a great way to release aggressions in a positive way IMO.


Couldn't agree more.  I am not sure mosh pits are always as friendly as you suggest, I have heard about people dying in Sepultura moshpits. Some people can take this moshing business too seriously and bring injury to others at the gig but that would be like saying football is a bad sport just because people die in skirmishes in South American football matches. And nothing beats popping in the earphones and headbanging to "A Lesson In Violence" after a hard's days work to forget about your worries and happily get on with the drudgery of life.Smile  Extreme metal is no more harmless/harmful than any other form of music and those who believe otherwise are simply prejudiced, sorry Dave.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2008 at 07:15
Well Iīve only attended concerts in Denmark, and even though mosh pits can seem violent to outsiders itīs rather like a weird tribal dance. Never heard about anyone dying in a mosh-pit but I guess if they are big enough something terrible could happen and of course I donīt indulge that. It has to happen under restricted forms and following certain rules. But as I said Iīve never encountered anything aggressive/ violent in a mosh-pit. Lots of fun and a couple of bruises but thatīs it. Again itīs important to remember that itīs a personal choice what you listen to or participate in.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2008 at 07:21
Originally posted by DavetheSlave DavetheSlave wrote:

I've watched - and I mean personally watched!!! People die from many things!!!! There's nothing attractive about it at all!!!!!! I'[ve heard Rush sing about a Red Barchetta/ Why would I want to hear a Band sing about Death.??? I know it more intimately than most and there's nothing about it that I would want to put to music!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
It's just a fad. Why else would you growl instead of sing and play embarrasing heavy music? Embarrassed
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2008 at 09:00
Not all death lyrics are morbid.

And even when they sound it, 9/10 of the time it has more of a meaning than "I KILL YOU. YOU KILL ME. DIE!!!!!"LOL



Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2008 at 11:29
Originally posted by UMUR UMUR wrote:

God damn David you got some real talent there. Nice stuff and the collage is beautiful ( yes I said beautiful. Some of us disturbed metalheads find things like that beautifulLOL)
 
Concerning the lyrics debate in Death metal there are lots of Death metal bands who concentrate on other topics. Mostly dark, bizarre and taboo filled topics ( take a listen to Club Mondo Bizarre by Pungent Stench) but also really interesting/ serious topics like politics ( Napalm Death, Nasum) or more spiritual subjects ( Atheist, Cynic, Pestilence). Thereīs a primal urge/ need in every human to explore the dark sides of life and itīs just a matter of personal belief and interest how far you take it. Some only dip their toes and others like myself take a long, long swim. The important thing to remember is that itīs a personal choice. You can still be a normal human being with family and kids and listen to acts like Carcass and Cannibal Corpse. Itīs not like I show the original LP covers from Carcass Reek of Putrefaction and Symphonies of Sickness ( the meat collages), Autopsyīs Acts of the Unspeakable or Butchered at Birth by Cannibal Corpse to my kids, but I wonīt deny them access to my record collection ( and the many, many extreme lyrics and covers that are present in that collection)when I feel that they are old/ mature enough to understand the difference between fiction and reality. Dialogue and education is the way forward, not censorship and closeminded bigotry. There will always be a small percentage of kids/ young people who canīt handle being exposed to some of the things that I mention above, but should the rest of us be denied access because of this? As I mentioned above dialogue and education will in most cases build strong kids who understand the difference between fiction and reality. I have a large amount of friends who have been listening to extreme metal for years and none have turned out violent. They are not in any way different from the friends I have who havenīt listened to extreme metal.
 
Iīve attended many metal concerts through the years as well and been part of many mosh-pits and never have I seen REAL violence at any of those concerts ( Good Friendly Violent Fun to quote the Exodus classic Toxic Waltz, but not real violence). In fact I think extreme metal is healthy for most people. We as humans are aggressive by nature ( even the sweetest and most likable human being has this side) and especially the male part of the population deal with those emotions. Listening to Metal music is a great way to release aggressions in a positive way IMO.
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2008 at 17:36
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Originally posted by UMUR UMUR wrote:

God damn David you got some real talent there. Nice stuff and the collage is beautiful ( yes I said beautiful. Some of us disturbed metalheads find things like that beautifulLOL)
 
Concerning the lyrics debate in Death metal there are lots of Death metal bands who concentrate on other topics. Mostly dark, bizarre and taboo filled topics ( take a listen to Club Mondo Bizarre by Pungent Stench) but also really interesting/ serious topics like politics ( Napalm Death, Nasum) or more spiritual subjects ( Atheist, Cynic, Pestilence). Thereīs a primal urge/ need in every human to explore the dark sides of life and itīs just a matter of personal belief and interest how far you take it. Some only dip their toes and others like myself take a long, long swim. The important thing to remember is that itīs a personal choice. You can still be a normal human being with family and kids and listen to acts like Carcass and Cannibal Corpse. Itīs not like I show the original LP covers from Carcass Reek of Putrefaction and Symphonies of Sickness ( the meat collages), Autopsyīs Acts of the Unspeakable or Butchered at Birth by Cannibal Corpse to my kids, but I wonīt deny them access to my record collection ( and the many, many extreme lyrics and covers that are present in that collection)when I feel that they are old/ mature enough to understand the difference between fiction and reality. Dialogue and education is the way forward, not censorship and closeminded bigotry. There will always be a small percentage of kids/ young people who canīt handle being exposed to some of the things that I mention above, but should the rest of us be denied access because of this? As I mentioned above dialogue and education will in most cases build strong kids who understand the difference between fiction and reality. I have a large amount of friends who have been listening to extreme metal for years and none have turned out violent. They are not in any way different from the friends I have who havenīt listened to extreme metal.
 
Iīve attended many metal concerts through the years as well and been part of many mosh-pits and never have I seen REAL violence at any of those concerts ( Good Friendly Violent Fun to quote the Exodus classic Toxic Waltz, but not real violence). In fact I think extreme metal is healthy for most people. We as humans are aggressive by nature ( even the sweetest and most likable human being has this side) and especially the male part of the population deal with those emotions. Listening to Metal music is a great way to release aggressions in a positive way IMO.
 
 
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Couldn't have said it better myself. As also mentioned not all contain gore lyrics. Opeth's "Still Life" is actually a love story, admittedly with a fair few deaths, but most good storylines in movies and literature have death involved somehow. It all adds to the turbulence of a story. As for bands like Mortician and Carcass? Human's are naturally violent and I get a buzz from those kind of lyrics, I can't help being human. Same reason why people watch extremely violent movies such as Saw or Scarface. It adds an impact that can be achieved no other way, hence why comedians like Frankie Boyle are so well loved for their offensive material. Same goes for metal.

Sorry if it seems like I'm just copying what you've just said UMUR, but it was meant to be a mere augmentation

DaveTheSlave, please be more open minded about things. There is a reason us metalheads listen to Death Metal, we don't just listen to it to for the hell of it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2008 at 18:26
Originally posted by UMUR UMUR wrote:

Thereīs a primal urge/ need in every human to explore the dark sides of life and itīs just a matter of personal belief and interest how far you take it. Some only dip their toes and others like myself take a long, long swim. The important thing to remember is that itīs a personal choice... We as humans are aggressive by nature ( even the sweetest and most likable human being has this side) and especially the male part of the population deal with those emotions.
 
Originally posted by The Pessimist The Pessimist wrote:


Human's are naturally violent and I get a buzz from those kind of lyrics, I can't help being human. Same reason why people watch extremely violent movies such as Saw or Scarface. It adds an impact that can be achieved no other way...


Not sure what it means to be "aggressive by nature" or "naturally violent."  In a sense, these claims are trivially true: we certainly observe these characteristics in nature, and so by definition they are natural. 

Let's be generous, however, and interpret this claim as "humans are inherently violent", i.e. the tendency toward violence or aggression is an essential property of humans.  I don't know how one could verify such a claim.  Of course, some people exhibit violent or aggressive behavior under certain circumstances.  But clearly, this isn't sufficient evidence to support the thesis.

Nevertheless, we'll further extend our generosity and take the claim as true, or at least possibly true.  Still, this fails to provide us with any basis for moral judgment (neglecting the absurd relativist position):  that a behavior is inherent is not sufficient justification for permitting or cultivating it (it's quite easy to think of relevant examples, but I'll leave this to the interested reader).
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2008 at 19:52
Originally posted by WinterLight WinterLight wrote:

 

Not sure what it means to be "aggressive by nature" or "naturally violent."  In a sense, these claims are trivially true: we certainly observe these characteristics in nature, and so by definition they are natural. 

Let's be generous, however, and interpret this claim as "humans are inherently violent", i.e. the tendency toward violence or aggression is an essential property of humans.  I don't know how one could verify such a claim.  Of course, some people exhibit violent or aggressive behavior under certain circumstances.  But clearly, this isn't sufficient evidence to support the thesis.

Nevertheless, we'll further extend our generosity and take the claim as true, or at least possibly true.  Still, this fails to provide us with any basis for moral judgment (neglecting the absurd relativist position):  that a behavior is inherent is not sufficient justification for permitting or cultivating it (it's quite easy to think of relevant examples, but I'll leave this to the interested reader).

Agree with everything you said, except that music is only an art and it has no moralistic compulsions to fulfil. I don't buy the premise that music can make a person become violent, it only exhibits a lack of self control on the part of the person.  For me, "violent" music is a stressbuster in the same way disco/dance music is for a lot of people; I don't like disco/dance music, so I found my own disco music. Big smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2008 at 20:04

wat is this thread

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2008 at 20:13
Originally posted by WinterLight WinterLight wrote:



Not sure what it means to be "aggressive by nature" or "naturally violent."  In a sense, these claims are trivially true: we certainly observe these characteristics in nature, and so by definition they are natural. 

Let's be generous, however, and interpret this claim as "humans are inherently violent", i.e. the tendency toward violence or aggression is an essential property of humans.  I don't know how one could verify such a claim.  Of course, some people exhibit violent or aggressive behavior under certain circumstances.  But clearly, this isn't sufficient evidence to support the thesis.

Nevertheless, we'll further extend our generosity and take the claim as true, or at least possibly true.  Still, this fails to provide us with any basis for moral judgment (neglecting the absurd relativist position):  that a behavior is inherent is not sufficient justification for permitting or cultivating it (it's quite easy to think of relevant examples, but I'll leave this to the interested reader).


I challenge anyone willing to find me someone who hasn't got some inner anger that they can't seem to banish. I'm sure everyone on this forum has something they are deeply unsatisfied about, which is what I meant by humans being naturally violent, because let's face it: anger is violent in some way or form, it is what determines it. The way I see it, Death Metal, Black Metal, Deathgrind, Grindcore and similar sub-genres are all vehicles to vanquish that anger without hurting anybody in the process. Everyone has their own form of escapism. Extreme Metal fans use their music as theirs. Not only that, but a lot of Extreme Metal is musically challenging to listen to. Take Meshuggah for an example. We listen to that for the same reason that most people on this site listen to complex prog like Gentle Giant and Zappa (to name a couple).
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2008 at 20:18
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:


Agree with everything you said, except that music is only an art and it has no moralistic compulsions to fulfil.

Interesting.  But isn't art, in some sense, the ultimate expression of personal values or beliefs?  From my previous posts it is obvious that I completely condemn censorship of art; however, I hold that artistic creation itself is a moral act.


I don't buy the premise that music can make a person become violent, it only exhibits a lack of self control on the part of the person. 

Same here.  Too often do we blame everyone beside ourselves for our actions (the first monologue in Spike Lee's film, 25th Hour, comes to mind).


For me, "violent" music is a stressbuster in the same way disco/dance music is for a lot of people; I don't like disco/dance music, so I found my own disco music.

Surprised that the auto-censor didn't catch "disco."  But to be serious, I've listened to extreme metal for quite some time, and so I do understand what you mean.  In my case, overexposure to that music has lessened its impact (aside from several exceptional bands--too many clones in that world).
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2008 at 20:28
Originally posted by The Pessimist The Pessimist wrote:


I challenge anyone willing to find me someone who hasn't got some inner anger that they can't seem to banish. I'm sure everyone on this forum has something they are deeply unsatisfied about, which is what I meant by humans being naturally violent, because let's face it: anger is violent in some way or form, it is what determines it. The way I see it, Death Metal, Black Metal, Deathgrind, Grindcore and similar sub-genres are all vehicles to vanquish that anger without hurting anybody in the process. Everyone has their own form of escapism. Extreme Metal fans use their music as theirs. Not only that, but a lot of Extreme Metal is musically challenging to listen to. Take Meshuggah for an example. We listen to that for the same reason that most people on this site listen to complex prog like Gentle Giant and Zappa (to name a couple).


Not here to bash extreme metal; I've listened to quite a bit of it and enjoyed much of it, and I think it's a shame that metal in general doesn't garner greater respect here and elsewhere.  With that said, I don't think that your argument does metal any justice:  although aggression is definitely a part of the genre, it's not the only ingredient.

Also: it may be that many people have unresolved anger.  Sometimes they control this anger, or release it in constructive ways; on occasion they might turn to violence.  Still, violence isn't a necessary consequence of anger.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2008 at 20:39
Originally posted by WinterLight WinterLight wrote:



It's a shame that metal in general doesn't garner greater respect here and elsewhere.


It is a shame, but I've always took pride in the fact that not many people listen to it. I don't know why, but I think that's also why many people enjoy listening to prog. It's contraversial. 
Originally posted by WinterLight WinterLight wrote:

With that said, I don't think that your argument does metal any justice:  although aggression is definitely a part of the genre, it's not the only ingredient.
You have to admit though: it does help, and when I've had a bad day there is nothing that makes me feel better than having a good cigarette and pumping out a bit of Cephalic Carnage.
Originally posted by WinterLight WinterLight wrote:


Also: it may be that many people have unresolved anger.  Sometimes they control this anger, or release it in constructive ways; on occasion they might turn to violence.  Still, violence isn't a necessary consequence of anger.

Violence isn't a necessary consequence of anger, I couldn't agree more. Which is why it's always better to annoy the neighbours with some Death Metal instead. No-one gets hurt and it's perfectly within moral boundries.

Maybe I'm just different in the fact that I also treat my metal as an anger management scheme...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2008 at 23:52
Originally posted by WinterLight WinterLight wrote:

Interesting.  But isn't art, in some sense, the ultimate expression of personal values or beliefs?  From my previous posts it is obvious that I completely condemn censorship of art; however, I hold that artistic creation itself is a moral act.


I don't completely agree, it could be the expression of one's thoughts about life, humanity, the world at large, anything under the sun in fact and it's not necessary that there should be any moralistic attribute to this expression.  In my opinion, one can make a music album about  a serial killer executing his victims with the utmost artistry without condemning or lauding his act. There would still be enough drama in it, you can capture the fright the victim is undergoing, the macabre sense of satisfaction the killer gets...and so long as there is emotional drama, there is music, just my opinion. It remains to be seen whether such a concept would find takers, but it's as acceptable a concept as any other to my mind. 

Originally posted by WinterLight WinterLight wrote:


Surprised that the auto-censor didn't catch "disco."  But to be serious, I've listened to extreme metal for quite some time, and so I do understand what you mean.  In my case, overexposure to that music has lessened its impact (aside from several exceptional bands--too many clones in that world).


I don't know whether you are referring to overexposure in terms of extreme metal or disco, the former has happened to me though. Too much of a good thing is never good and gradually the excitement of listening to extreme metal has all but gone for me and yes I blame it on way too many me too bands.  I am on the lookout for mutligenre experiments in this realm though, this is still an exciting space in extreme metal.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2008 at 00:02
Originally posted by The Pessimist The Pessimist wrote:

Originally posted by WinterLight WinterLight wrote:



It's a shame that metal in general doesn't garner greater respect here and elsewhere.


It is a shame, but I've always took pride in the fact that not many people listen to it. I don't know why, but I think that's also why many people enjoy listening to prog. It's contraversial. 


There's a difference: metal doesn't get its due from the so-called elite circles of music either; i.e, the same crowd that appreciates the prog buys into the "metal is noise" cliche.  The reverse is not always true, I have come across metalheads on metal - and not prog - forums who like prog rock and that the classic stuff.  Lot of metalheads can also have a rather annoying abhorrence to anything "non-metal" as if listening to anything without metal riffs would be a sin but because you move from rock to metal and not the other way, they are more receptive to rock-based music than rock fans are to metal.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2008 at 00:23
there's plenty of death metal bands whose lyrics aren't all about death....and plenty whose lyrics are. it's become a style more than a topic. in fact there's a good number of bands with very 'epic' lyrics. think lord of the rings haha. but believe it or not, many people find music in this style inspirational.

nothing wrong with tunes that get the blood pumping!


Edited by SolariS - December 31 2008 at 00:24
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