Death Metal
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Printed Date: December 04 2024 at 21:00
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Topic: Death Metal
Posted By: DavetheSlave
Subject: Death Metal
Date Posted: December 29 2008 at 17:32
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I've watched - and I mean personally watched!!! People die from many things!!!! There's nothing attractive about it at all!!!!!! I'[ve heard Rush sing about a Red Barchetta/ Why would I want to hear a Band sing about Death.??? I know it more intimately than most and there's nothing about it that I would want to put to music!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ------------- I'm a normal psychopath |
Replies:
Posted By: crimson87
Date Posted: December 29 2008 at 17:37
| Death is an issue that always intrigued us |
Posted By: DavetheSlave
Date Posted: December 29 2008 at 17:40
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I've lived in probably the most violent country on earth. I know death intimately!!! There's nothing to sing about there - believe me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ------------- I'm a normal psychopath |
Posted By: WinterLight
Date Posted: December 29 2008 at 17:41
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DavetheSlave wrote:Posted By: DavetheSlave
Date Posted: December 29 2008 at 17:48
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Hi WinterLight - been there, done it, watched it, cauysed it etc etc!!! Nothin beautiful or mysteryfilled about it. Nothin at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Speak to me. Anyone want to dispute my credibility in South Africa??????? Nothin to write no amazing songs about - believe that!!!!!!!! Death is ugly and it always will be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ------------- I'm a normal psychopath |
Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: December 29 2008 at 18:30
Nobody questions how much horror you have seen. But as WinterLight said, to each his own. Itīs in you to make the choice to listen to it or not, not to say if the artist can or canīt talk about it. Personally, I donīt like it much when people sing about christianity... so I just donīt listen to it.
This makes me remember an interview with James Hetfield where he explains why the title of the album "Death magnetic" and he sais something like "death is the ultimate tabu, nobody wants to talk about it, itīs the big elefant in the room bla bla bla...". What an idiot, death is pretty much the topic of 90% of all metal  . God! ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
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Posted By: crimson87
Date Posted: December 29 2008 at 18:35
| metal can get so cliched sometimes |
Posted By: DavetheSlave
Date Posted: December 29 2008 at 18:37
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Hey El Bothy - you ever watched death???? I have and there's nothing worth writing a song about!!!!!!!!!!! People come and people go! Death aint no mystery and nore is it poetic!!! Death is a reality of life and believe me, it is an ugly senseless reality!!! Maybe that's why Death Metal holds nothing at all for me!!!! Life's emotion however holds a lot for me - hence my lov e of Duke (Genesis) ------------- I'm a normal psychopath |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: December 29 2008 at 19:02
ENOUGH. Seriously, you've said this exact sentence, or one along very similar lines, in so many threads, just for the sake of pissing people off/inciting angry responses. It's constantly repeating those same kind of extremely irritating comments that give forum boards such as this a bad name. We know how you feel about metal, okay, but you don't need to shove it down every metal fan's throat in every second thread that somehow relates to metal. Let it rest man, please, it's seriously getting on my nerves and other people's too, it's not doing good for anyone. ------------- 
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Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: December 29 2008 at 19:34
| Wrong place for this thread. Also, there are clichés in all genres, not just metal. |
Posted By: Plankowner
Date Posted: December 29 2008 at 20:59
| ----- |
Posted By: Plankowner
Date Posted: December 29 2008 at 21:01
| But Dave you haven't heard all these bands yet... |
Posted By: Plankowner
Date Posted: December 29 2008 at 21:04
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: December 29 2008 at 21:54
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I held my mother's hand when she died - the second most moving moment of my life, only watching my daughter being born touched me more. I wish I had been there when my dad passed away 18 years ago, I wasn't, that single fact still hurts me to this day.
Death Metal is just music, lyrics are just words. Move on Dave. Nothing to see here. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Dim
Date Posted: December 29 2008 at 22:32
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A couple questions... Who listens to death metal for the lyrical content? Who really cares what they mean, we just want to hear the guy growl? How can you even understand the lyrics to begin with?
I'll admit, I dont like most Death metal, but I love extreme vocals, and almost every kind of metal that goes with them. Death metal is a style of music, if it were defined it's lyrical content, Almost all of metal would be diefined as death metal. Music is a form of MUSIC! ------------- 
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Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: December 30 2008 at 02:12
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But you listen to Korn...?
Bah, forget it, you're not worth my time. And I value my time very lowly! ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: December 30 2008 at 02:16
Nail, meet the hammer! The classification death metal is in itself flawed because death metal lyrics are no longer rigidly restricted to the theme of death. It's just the way some black metal doesn't deal with Satan or anti-Christ agendas. Death metal, like black metal, stands for a particular style of music which is quite easily identifiable though people struggle to differentiate extreme thrash from death metal and prog metal with growls from death metal (both are NOT the same thing!). Yes, metal genres are not named with the scientific accuracy that some prog fans may look for  , because we metalheads tend to go for the riffs frequently to the exclusion of everything else, no harm in that, just a different way of looking at the music. |
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: December 30 2008 at 02:17
------------- |
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: December 30 2008 at 02:21
------------- |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: December 30 2008 at 02:24
It's alright if you feel so about death, but how naive to assume other people have not watched their loved ones die! Wait, didn't you ask somebody on the tech extreme thread to be "open-minded" and listen to Korn again? You are the cat's whiskers indeed! Not because you like Korn but...you get it, oh wait you don't, forget it! |
Posted By: Plankowner
Date Posted: December 30 2008 at 02:26
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See that Massacre logo? I designed that when I was 16 or so...
Here's the original design, I used the letters "assa" like brass knuckles on a demon's hand...
  A cleaner look of the logo...
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: December 30 2008 at 02:37
Same here. I lost my grandfather two years ago and wasn't around during his last moments because I stay a 1000 miles away. He was suffering from cancer and I had visited him two months ago knowing he wouldn't be much longer. But I guess the full import didn't hit home until the moment arrived and I regret not spending every moment of my visit by his bedside. |
Posted By: DamoXt7942
Date Posted: December 30 2008 at 04:16
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Hum...there're many different opinions...
I love Carcass, especially the vocalist Jeff Walker, and consider their music style (in the period of "Necroticism - Descanting The Insalubrious") is progressive.
Indeed their death-medical lyrics feel funny for me as a physician, but I suggest it is exactly their strategy for sale. ------------- http://www.facebook.com/damoxt7942" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: UMUR
Date Posted: December 30 2008 at 05:53
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God damn David you got some real talent there. Nice stuff and the collage is beautiful ( yes I said beautiful. Some of us disturbed metalheads find things like that beautiful)
Concerning the lyrics debate in Death metal there are lots of Death metal bands who concentrate on other topics. Mostly dark, bizarre and taboo filled topics ( take a listen to Club Mondo Bizarre by Pungent Stench) but also really interesting/ serious topics like politics ( Napalm Death, Nasum) or more spiritual subjects ( Atheist, Cynic, Pestilence). Thereīs a primal urge/ need in every human to explore the dark sides of life and itīs just a matter of personal belief and interest how far you take it. Some only dip their toes and others like myself take a long, long swim. The important thing to remember is that itīs a personal choice. You can still be a normal human being with family and kids and listen to acts like Carcass and Cannibal Corpse. Itīs not like I show the original LP covers from Carcass Reek of Putrefaction and Symphonies of Sickness ( the meat collages), Autopsyīs Acts of the Unspeakable or Butchered at Birth by Cannibal Corpse to my kids, but I wonīt deny them access to my record collection ( and the many, many extreme lyrics and covers that are present in that collection)when I feel that they are old/ mature enough to understand the difference between fiction and reality. Dialogue and education is the way forward, not censorship and closeminded bigotry. There will always be a small percentage of kids/ young people who canīt handle being exposed to some of the things that I mention above, but should the rest of us be denied access because of this? As I mentioned above dialogue and education will in most cases build strong kids who understand the difference between fiction and reality. I have a large amount of friends who have been listening to extreme metal for years and none have turned out violent. They are not in any way different from the friends I have who havenīt listened to extreme metal.
Iīve attended many metal concerts through the years as well and been part of many mosh-pits and never have I seen REAL violence at any of those concerts ( Good Friendly Violent Fun to quote the Exodus classic Toxic Waltz, but not real violence). In fact I think extreme metal is healthy for most people. We as humans are aggressive by nature ( even the sweetest and most likable human being has this side) and especially the male part of the population deal with those emotions. Listening to Metal music is a great way to release aggressions in a positive way IMO.
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: December 30 2008 at 06:55
Couldn't agree more. I am not sure mosh pits are always as friendly as you suggest, I have heard about people dying in Sepultura moshpits. Some people can take this moshing business too seriously and bring injury to others at the gig but that would be like saying football is a bad sport just because people die in skirmishes in South American football matches. And nothing beats popping in the earphones and headbanging to "A Lesson In Violence" after a hard's days work to forget about your worries and happily get on with the drudgery of life.  Extreme metal is no more harmless/harmful than any other form of music and those who believe otherwise are simply prejudiced, sorry Dave. |
Posted By: UMUR
Date Posted: December 30 2008 at 07:15
| Well Iīve only attended concerts in Denmark, and even though mosh pits can seem violent to outsiders itīs rather like a weird tribal dance. Never heard about anyone dying in a mosh-pit but I guess if they are big enough something terrible could happen and of course I donīt indulge that. It has to happen under restricted forms and following certain rules. But as I said Iīve never encountered anything aggressive/ violent in a mosh-pit. Lots of fun and a couple of bruises but thatīs it. Again itīs important to remember that itīs a personal choice what you listen to or participate in. |
Posted By: PROGMONSTER2008
Date Posted: December 30 2008 at 07:21
It's just a fad. Why else would you growl instead of sing and play embarrasing heavy music?  ------------- Jazz/Classical Rock(70's style prog/fusion). Lots of prog keys and melodies(all original ideas) http://www.myspace.com/vigilante2008" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/vigilante2008 |
Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: December 30 2008 at 09:00
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Not all death lyrics are morbid. And even when they sound it, 9/10 of the time it has more of a meaning than "I KILL YOU. YOU KILL ME. DIE!!!!!"  ------------- 
Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: December 30 2008 at 11:29
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Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: December 30 2008 at 17:36
Couldn't have said it better myself. As also mentioned not all contain gore lyrics. Opeth's "Still Life" is actually a love story, admittedly with a fair few deaths, but most good storylines in movies and literature have death involved somehow. It all adds to the turbulence of a story. As for bands like Mortician and Carcass? Human's are naturally violent and I get a buzz from those kind of lyrics, I can't help being human. Same reason why people watch extremely violent movies such as Saw or Scarface. It adds an impact that can be achieved no other way, hence why comedians like Frankie Boyle are so well loved for their offensive material. Same goes for metal. Sorry if it seems like I'm just copying what you've just said UMUR, but it was meant to be a mere augmentation  DaveTheSlave, please be more open minded about things. There is a reason us metalheads listen to Death Metal, we don't just listen to it to for the hell of it. ------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: WinterLight
Date Posted: December 30 2008 at 18:26
Not sure what it means to be "aggressive by nature" or "naturally violent." In a sense, these claims are trivially true: we certainly observe these characteristics in nature, and so by definition they are natural. Let's be generous, however, and interpret this claim as "humans are inherently violent", i.e. the tendency toward violence or aggression is an essential property of humans. I don't know how one could verify such a claim. Of course, some people exhibit violent or aggressive behavior under certain circumstances. But clearly, this isn't sufficient evidence to support the thesis. Nevertheless, we'll further extend our generosity and take the claim as true, or at least possibly true. Still, this fails to provide us with any basis for moral judgment (neglecting the absurd relativist position): that a behavior is inherent is not sufficient justification for permitting or cultivating it (it's quite easy to think of relevant examples, but I'll leave this to the interested reader). |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: December 30 2008 at 19:52
Agree with everything you said, except that music is only an art and it has no moralistic compulsions to fulfil. I don't buy the premise that music can make a person become violent, it only exhibits a lack of self control on the part of the person. For me, "violent" music is a stressbuster in the same way disco/dance music is for a lot of people; I don't like disco/dance music, so I found my own disco music.
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Posted By: Sunny In Jeddah
Date Posted: December 30 2008 at 20:04
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wat is this thread ------------- 
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Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: December 30 2008 at 20:13
I challenge anyone willing to find me someone who hasn't got some inner anger that they can't seem to banish. I'm sure everyone on this forum has something they are deeply unsatisfied about, which is what I meant by humans being naturally violent, because let's face it: anger is violent in some way or form, it is what determines it. The way I see it, Death Metal, Black Metal, Deathgrind, Grindcore and similar sub-genres are all vehicles to vanquish that anger without hurting anybody in the process. Everyone has their own form of escapism. Extreme Metal fans use their music as theirs. Not only that, but a lot of Extreme Metal is musically challenging to listen to. Take Meshuggah for an example. We listen to that for the same reason that most people on this site listen to complex prog like Gentle Giant and Zappa (to name a couple). ------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: WinterLight
Date Posted: December 30 2008 at 20:18
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Posted By: WinterLight
Date Posted: December 30 2008 at 20:28
Not here to bash extreme metal; I've listened to quite a bit of it and enjoyed much of it, and I think it's a shame that metal in general doesn't garner greater respect here and elsewhere. With that said, I don't think that your argument does metal any justice: although aggression is definitely a part of the genre, it's not the only ingredient. Also: it may be that many people have unresolved anger. Sometimes they control this anger, or release it in constructive ways; on occasion they might turn to violence. Still, violence isn't a necessary consequence of anger. |
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: December 30 2008 at 20:39
It is a shame, but I've always took pride in the fact that not many people listen to it. I don't know why, but I think that's also why many people enjoy listening to prog. It's contraversial.
Violence isn't a necessary consequence of anger, I couldn't agree more. Which is why it's always better to annoy the neighbours with some Death Metal instead. No-one gets hurt and it's perfectly within moral boundries. Maybe I'm just different in the fact that I also treat my metal as an anger management scheme... ------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: December 30 2008 at 23:52
I don't completely agree, it could be the expression of one's thoughts about life, humanity, the world at large, anything under the sun in fact and it's not necessary that there should be any moralistic attribute to this expression. In my opinion, one can make a music album about a serial killer executing his victims with the utmost artistry without condemning or lauding his act. There would still be enough drama in it, you can capture the fright the victim is undergoing, the macabre sense of satisfaction the killer gets...and so long as there is emotional drama, there is music, just my opinion. It remains to be seen whether such a concept would find takers, but it's as acceptable a concept as any other to my mind.
I don't know whether you are referring to overexposure in terms of extreme metal or disco, the former has happened to me though. Too much of a good thing is never good and gradually the excitement of listening to extreme metal has all but gone for me and yes I blame it on way too many me too bands. I am on the lookout for mutligenre experiments in this realm though, this is still an exciting space in extreme metal. |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: December 31 2008 at 00:02
There's a difference: metal doesn't get its due from the so-called elite circles of music either; i.e, the same crowd that appreciates the prog buys into the "metal is noise" cliche. The reverse is not always true, I have come across metalheads on metal - and not prog - forums who like prog rock and that the classic stuff. Lot of metalheads can also have a rather annoying abhorrence to anything "non-metal" as if listening to anything without metal riffs would be a sin but because you move from rock to metal and not the other way, they are more receptive to rock-based music than rock fans are to metal. |
Posted By: SolariS
Date Posted: December 31 2008 at 00:23
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there's plenty of death metal bands whose lyrics aren't all about death....and plenty whose lyrics are. it's become a style more than a topic. in fact there's a good number of bands with very 'epic' lyrics. think lord of the rings haha. but believe it or not, many people find music in this style inspirational. nothing wrong with tunes that get the blood pumping! -------------  
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: December 31 2008 at 02:07
Yeah, I barely try to decipher lyrics in death metal/music with death growls either really. I just like the sound of the vocals. -------------
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: December 31 2008 at 02:36
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If I was in hospital, with a disease that might have a chance of being cure, but it cannot be certain that it will be, the music I'd want to be listening to is death metal. Give me Slow We Rot by Obituary to listen to. Why? Because it will give me hope and give me a positive outlook, which is what I'd need in a situation like that. -------------
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Posted By: Failcore
Date Posted: December 31 2008 at 02:58
| As has been said, not all extreme metal is about death. And even if it is, that's not necessarily bad. In fact some of the most meaningful lyrics I know deal with mortality. What bugs me is when the lyrics trivialize death in extremely retarded ways (singing about flying body parts and sex with dead bodies, etc). These are the same morons who probably laugh hysterically every time they blow someone away in their video games. Just really childish and dumb. If all you take away from the concept of death is just the visage of dead flesh then you've completely missed the point IMO. So, in short I don't really side with anyone here and I've probably pissed you all off. But to OP, I think you're really starting to beat a dead horse with all these threads. Lumping an entire genre in the suck pile just b/c some of it is crap is just the epitome of foolishness. |
Posted By: UMUR
Date Posted: December 31 2008 at 03:06
| I donīt have a problem with people singing about sex with dead bodies (Itīs not exactly tasteful IMO, but itīs their choice). Itīs your choice if you want to listen lyrics like that. I like splatter/ horror movies as well. Itīs an aquired taste and a personal choice. |
Posted By: Failcore
Date Posted: December 31 2008 at 03:18
| I don't have a problem with anyone listening to anything really. But I wouldn't listen for reasons aforementioned. |
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: December 31 2008 at 03:47
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Mindless sex death metal can sometimes have a certain appeal. Cold Ethel is very nice fun song too. ------------- |
Posted By: Failcore
Date Posted: December 31 2008 at 03:58
| FTW |
Posted By: UMUR
Date Posted: December 31 2008 at 04:45
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Splatterday Night Fever
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Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: December 31 2008 at 05:12
Why shouldn't people write songs about ugly things? Does it always have to be "shiny, happy people"? ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: UMUR
Date Posted: December 31 2008 at 05:22
| Thatīs my point too. Writing about ugly things sometimes stir up interesting educational debates as opposed to discussions about happy subjects that we pretty much all agree on are great ( love, peace on earth...etc.) |
Posted By: JayDee
Date Posted: December 31 2008 at 05:42
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Death. Nom, nom, nom, nom, nom!!! Uhmmmm, yummy. ------------- 
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Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: December 31 2008 at 08:51
Ok, good for you. If you canīt see pass your own opinion then I donīt think this discussion will go any further...  ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?"
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Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: December 31 2008 at 09:01
If 20th century art has tought us anything is just that. Art does NOT have to be pretty. Well said. ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?"
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Posted By: CCVP
Date Posted: December 31 2008 at 09:14
You definitely have never seen a mosh-pit in Brazil, that's for sure.  -------------   
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Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: December 31 2008 at 09:26
Luckily, several people can see past this opinion, which is why this is becoming a very interesting topic 
[edit] Mind you:
Never having been into death metal myself, I hope you'll allow me a chuckle at the above quote; I'm genuinely not taking the mickey, but to me, the idea of a song called 'slow we rot' by a band called 'obituary' seems a million miles awy from the concept of 'hope and a positive outlook'
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: UMUR
Date Posted: December 31 2008 at 09:45
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Good old Obituary
You definitely have never seen a mosh-pit in Brazil, that's for sure.  Nope I havenīt. And as I said it should happen under some sort of restrictions. And again I want to emphasise that you know when you enter a mosh-pit that itīs at your own risk and itīs your own personal choice if you want to participate.
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: December 31 2008 at 09:54
But it's not always so cut-and-dry
, you do appreciate that you can be pushed into the moshpit too against your wishes! You have to stick to the left/right of the crowd, if you are in the center, you will be sucked into the pit in no time and then enjoy getting beaten up! And when the headline act starts, it's all you can do to keep pushing forward....falter behind and lo, the moshpit welcomes you with open arms! |
Posted By: UMUR
Date Posted: December 31 2008 at 10:10
| I think Mosh-pits are an important part of extreme metal concerts and most people who attend those concerts enjoy them. Either as voyers or participants. The few who donīt might have chosen to attend a wrong forum. Go see an Elton John concert is my advice. |
Posted By: UMUR
Date Posted: December 31 2008 at 10:20
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Or even better Cliff Richard ( my favorite artist)
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Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: December 31 2008 at 10:43
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Death metal is definitely not my cup of tea, but to each their own. Personally, I come from the liberal school of thought that just about everything is fair game when it comes to art, as long as "no animals were harmed in the making of this film". The great thing about music is that it comes with an off button, a mute button, and generally it requires you to make an effort to have it cross your ears; although there is generally little you can do when sitting in traffic and the car next to you is blasting music loud enough to shake your fillings. Translated: if you don't like it, you don't have to listen to it. That being said, I could be wrong but I think that Dave means well with his point of view, even if it isn't being taken well. Many and maybe even most people can listen to death metal music entirely for entertainment value and they are never going to go out and commit the atrocities that are sung about within the songs. Same theory as with slasher movies; many or most people who enjoy these watch them for the entertainment value and are never going to go on to become slashers. But there is always going to be that percentage of the population that are impressionable and who could come under the influence of this type of music and go on to commit the atrocities that are sung about within these type of songs or within those type of movies. I think that that becomes a question of nature versus nurture. Does the music or the movies cause people to commit the atrocities or would the people have committed the atrocities anyways, and they gravitate towards that type of music because it is within their nature? I think that this is one of those things that psychiatrists/psychologists/sociologists have debated and will debate for years. ------------- 
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: December 31 2008 at 12:04
Of course. But it's not always the kind of good, clean, harmless fun that you make it out to be, my friend's platinum bracelet got stolen in a moshpit once
, of course he was stupid to wear a bracelet to a metal concert, but just saying that undesirable elements do creep in and spoil the fun for the rest of the crowd. |
Posted By: WinterLight
Date Posted: December 31 2008 at 12:13
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: December 31 2008 at 13:35
The business of life, yes. Art - how much does art relate to real life? It is a fantasy, an escapist trip, all said and done. It may be a way of life for the artist, but it is at best an obsessive, desultory pursuit for the audience, can never be any greater part of their life except where the audience may be artists themselves. I spend serious amounts of time on music and fiction, which could perhaps be better spent on accounting theory, being my domain of specialization but I never take the artist's message to heart. I may heartily applaud the way he has conveyed his thoughts, however repugnant, but whether they are repugnant or not in a practical context is of no bearing to me. Of course, this is a contentious point, which is why censorship enters through the back door under the pretext of making art "socially responsible".
While I would surely note the presence of a repugnant message in a work of art, I wouldn't hold it against the artist. I am only interested in what is his mastery over his art.
Yes, to the extent, they don't conform to even the loosest definitions of art. But if they do, then what does it matter if it is distasteful because taste is again a matter of perception.
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Posted By: Failcore
Date Posted: December 31 2008 at 15:29
That's a really astute analysis of "vulgar" arts in general. People aren't just a blank slate that are ready to be programmed by the first horror movie/death metal song/rap song they here. But can the right thing push the right person over the edge at the right time. That's a tootsie pop question imo. But this is more of a moral quandary aimed at the purveyors of such arts rather than the listeners. As far as I am concerned you can listen to Chuck gib ppl all day long as long as you aren't doing it too. |
Posted By: DavetheSlave
Date Posted: December 31 2008 at 16:00
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Hello Guys!!! Personally I enjoy uplifting music!! Or depressing concept music!!! Dependant on mood. Symphony X doesn't need to depress me with I love Satan lyrics or Death is a beautiful thing lyrics!! Why don't they - because they are very good musicians -that's why!!! Oh and Metal - I love Black Sabbath, Dio, Judas Priest, Dream Theater, Pain of Salvation!!!! I do not like some wokko guy telling me all about death and his Satanic or Christian feelings about death!!! War Pigs by Sabbath I love - it is an anti war epic!! I don't want some bloke telling me that the Dark master is the way to go to enjoy death!!!!!!! ------------- I'm a normal psychopath |
Posted By: WinterLight
Date Posted: December 31 2008 at 16:58
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Posted By: mithrandir
Date Posted: December 31 2008 at 19:23
| aw man, I miss out on all the good threads! |
Posted By: topofsm
Date Posted: December 31 2008 at 19:38
Sorry, couldn't resist. Being a bit contradictory aren't you? ------------- 
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: December 31 2008 at 21:14
Yes, I concede that that is all it is to me. I could get cynical and say it's a rather cumbersome means of amusement, but the only one I know of - I could be "normal" and just join friends and acquaintances in a discotheque after work but that kind of life doesn't interest me, so instead it's got be non-mainstream music - in general - and early 20th century authors in the solitary comfort of home!
Well, is content in music only lyrical? This is a question to ponder over. What of the effect musical movements have on one's moods and feelings because I find that far more appealing. Again it may be only my opinion, but what is the relative importance of lyrics and well the actual music in music? Your thoughts..
In principle, I agree but in practice, this can lead us back to another form of censorship. There is a formal body of music theory, knowledge and rules and every work of music must at least broadly adhere to it. But what happens if we start imposing aesthetic standards? The problem is aesthetic appeal is too subjective to be universally understood and followed as a standard. My city has many 19th century and early 20th century buildings which look beautiful to my eyes but not to the little kids who will be architects years hence; they would rather have the gaudy, hideous glass monsters for which these relics are more and more making way. In the same way, if we imposed aesthetic standards on music, I have no doubt that eventually everybody would subscribe to people like Davetheslave or PROGMONSTER that extreme metal is just noise and growls cannot have any emotion.
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Posted By: DavetheSlave
Date Posted: January 02 2009 at 10:24
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Hi Rogerthat - I love Horror movies and have a large collection of them! Amongst those movies are some pretty extreme ones and I find little merit in those movies other than to severely shock the watcher. I have them in my collection today because they are there but I would rather not have ever seen them - if they had been denied to me because of an artistic standard in the movies then I would be no poorer! Hi topofsm - those lyrics nearly put me off of Dream Theater until I listened (on advice) to the track as a whole and it isn't a praise of Satan - it forms part of a story where Satan is not the victor. It aint a prayer or praise of Satan!!! ------------- I'm a normal psychopath |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: January 02 2009 at 10:45
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Death Metal does not necessarily carry a religious message - but of course sometimes it does. It's not always satanistic though ... there are even Christian Death Metal bands. Personally, being an atheist myself, I have a very neutral position on the subject ... which means that I can go from Neal Morse - One to Celtic Frost - Monotheist without any problems.
------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: WinterLight
Date Posted: January 02 2009 at 12:33
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Posted By: crimson87
Date Posted: January 02 2009 at 14:16
That's hilarious because I picture a harmless guy as LaBrie singing those lyrics! |
Posted By: toroddfuglesteg
Date Posted: January 02 2009 at 17:52
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I am sorry to inject some sanity into this debate, but let me clear up where Death Metal originated from: In the beginning, Death Metal was called Black Metal. There was even a couple of compilation albums called Black Metal. Those only included Death and Thrash Metal bands. Death Metal originates from: 1. A song on a Possessed album. 2. The band Death 3. Or both. Black Metal was pushed back down into some basements. It then emigrated to Norway. It then rose again with a murder and some arsons. Well, numerous arsons in fact. Even I got an meat axe deposited through my bedroom window.......... after I had vacated that flat three months before. This is according to the mythology. The Death Metal scene swapped place with the Black Metal scene in the dingy basement and the Death Metal scene disapeared from the face of the earth for a while. Today, both scenes are alive and well. |
Posted By: mithrandir
Date Posted: January 02 2009 at 18:18
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1) there was never a compilation called "Black Metal" in the 80s, perhaps you're thinking of the Death Metal comp on Noise Rec that has Hellhammer, Helloween, Running Wild, and Dark Avenger ? 2) in addition to Possessed, in 1985 Onslaught and Vulcano respectively had songs named Death Metal, 3) Death, Black, Thrash, indeed all came from the same primordial stuff, although in the early to mid 80s those terms were bandied about quite liberally, in addition to Power, Speed and Doom, 4) not sure how one can say BM emigrated to Norway? Blasphemy, Beherit, Samael, Profanatica, Mortuary Drape, Master's Hammer, Root, Sabbat (jap), Necromantia, Tormentor, etc all from several different countries and all were playing BM long before the BM trend in Norway |
Posted By: topofsm
Date Posted: January 02 2009 at 19:24
1. You can use the quote box if you find it necessary. Makes it easier for conversing with specific people.
 2. I think you're condemning all death metal for it all being a prayer to satan, at least that's what you're implying by saying the DT song isn't a prayer to satan. In fact, there's plenty of death metal nowadays that doesn't focus entirely on death or satan. For example, there is a death metal/metalcore band called Becoming the Archetype that are Christian, you may want to try them out.
As for me, I find some lyrics about death intriguing, and they offer a new side of perceiving life that can be refreshing. For example, Tool's lyrics in "10,000 Days (Wings Pt. 2)" about his dead mother passing on to the other side I find very cool, and that happens to be one of my favorite songs.
And if you're a fan of Dream Theater, then you should realize that they couldn't possibly have made Metropolis pt. 2 without singing about death.
And just realize that you don't always have to pay attention to the lyrics. There's far too much good metal out there to pay attention to the embarrasing lyrics that go along with them.
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Posted By: toroddfuglesteg
Date Posted: January 02 2009 at 19:27
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Hi. I stand corrected on point 1, 2 and 3. On point 4, you should had added your country's very own Shub Niggurath. That was a good band. Black Metal was underground before we Norwegians added petrol and lighters together. The scene then became commercial and pretty much mainstream. Today, the youth has to declare themselves Christians to shock their parents and the society. |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: January 02 2009 at 21:41
Aw, as if they could have imagined something like extreme metal becoming a form of music!
You did not quite grasp the concern I was addressing. Once you have aesthetic standards, the next step is for a self-anointed cultural police to emerge and turn up their noses (or ears) at anything that doesn't SOUND pleasant to them. The point is, it is not necessary for music to sound pleasant according to SOME conventions laid down by SOME people. That music needs to sound pleasant is itself a very limiting restriction and only believed in by those who cannot visualise the scope for depicting different emotions through a more abrasive or inaccessible approach to music. I am not really being paranoid in talking about a cultural police; in my country, unless you move in dandy circles, you cannot escape cultural policing right through your childhood and teenhood and if you are in really bad luck, even in adulthood, be it teachers or elders, every effort is made to wean the child away from any activities that said elders did not indulge in thier childhood.
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: January 02 2009 at 21:51
My dear sir, you surely realize that mankind would be no poorer in a prosaic sense if the arts did not exist! Have you never met anybody who does not read or listen to music and does not paint or appreciate paintings but is extremely successful in his chosen walk of life, because I have. Art is an indulgence and in no way required to forward "progress" as we know it but the appreciation of art can enrich your experience of life immeasurably. And therefore projecting your perceptions of art on a subset of art - in this case, extreme metal - and wondering why it need exist - when like any art form, it perfectly need not exist at all - is coutner-productive.
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Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: January 02 2009 at 22:10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM1yhU0dBFM - THIS is metal And by the way, are your "1" and "SHIFT" keys broken? ------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: January 02 2009 at 22:13
Well, they are metal, not EXTREME metal.
Metal is vast, Dave and very few metalheads like all the subgenres of metal in the first place. |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: January 02 2009 at 22:18
THIS IS METAL!  Sorry, just had to post that -------------
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: January 02 2009 at 22:20
Bang the head that doesn't bang!
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Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: January 03 2009 at 07:24
Chuck would be so proud Best emoticon ever? I think it should be available on the PA emoticon menu ------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: mithrandir
Date Posted: January 03 2009 at 12:04
actually, they were from Mexico, I live in NEW Mexico, I do like Shub Niggurath though and still have their first couple of 7"s |
Posted By: toroddfuglesteg
Date Posted: January 03 2009 at 12:54
Ooppsss !!! I accidently insulted you in a big way there......... Knowing the history of New Mexico, I am really really sorry about that. This year's first big bloomer, this one. |
Posted By: topofsm
Date Posted: January 04 2009 at 01:34
Uh off topic, but one time a friend of mine from New Mexico applied for a job in Washington and wasn't accepted cause they didn't accept foreign applicants.
Anyways, what about the price of tea in China? -------------
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Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: January 04 2009 at 05:09
It's rising I've heard. ------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |