John Petrucci iz Da Shiz.

Now that's an interesting point. You see, I completely disagree. I think that the Petrucci/Rudess dual leads are all very singular, and capture the mood of the song pretty neatly. Octavarium's harmony runs conjure vivid images, as do the ones in 'Beyond this Life' and 'This Dying Soul', all portraying their own colours and shades. I know it's a litte showy, but it's creative and singular, as no one does them as well, and it adds something important to the structure of the songs for me. 

He's alright, but he got a bit lazy after the first few albums. There's nothing wrong with shredding, what's wrong is the fact that recently it seems his solos hinge upon it. You listen to solos off of stuff like Under A Glass Moon or Voices, and that's class stuff. He plays at a pretty fast clip, but not for the whole solo, and when he does do it, it has a pretty solid effect. Compare that to most of the TOT album, where he doesn't stop shredding. Not only that, but he has at least one solo (frequently more) on every song, whereas the earlier albums had cuts without solos, or solos that were less prominent. The whole thing kind of just reeks of this whole vibe that says "Hey, how can we turn this five minute song into an eleven minute song? I know, we'll just have John and Jordan w**k off for six minutes!" You can tell that he frequently really isn't putting his mind or heart into his solos any more, he just kind of does them. Having learned most of the songs of ToT on guitar (I can't play most of the solos but I have at least analyzed them) this is my major frustration. He's beginning to sound like a parody of himself.

Fieldofsorrow wrote: What amazes me about this entire discussion is that everyone has attacked Petrucci's emotion, without realising that it's there all along. His light and shade, his mood changes in his lead work, and the emotions that he succinctly evokes are the entire reason why I listen to his work! Every solo conjures a different feeling - 'Lie' is furious, 'As I Am' is menacing, 'Fatal Tragedy' is introspective, 'Under a Glass Moon' has a somewhat celestial feel, and 'Octavarium' is beyond the point of despair.   Whether he is shredding, or playing melodically, I personally feel that Petrucci is a masterful storyteller, and he technically deploys many harmonic devices to captivate me everytime. Sure, I couldn't JUST listen to him and no one else, but that's the same for any player.   And I don't think that's even his strongest asset. For me, he is first and foremost, a songwriter. The musical intricacies of practically all of his work with Dream Theater (perhaps excluding certain moments in Systematic Chaos, and one little slip in Octavarium) is absolutely jaw dropping, and how he so neatly strings these beautifully coherent and dynamic ten, sometimes twenty minute masterpieces together is beyond me. I truly believe he is the best at what he does - that is to say, that he is the best songwriter for progressive metal alive.   He's by no means perfect - but name a guitarist that is? I may be alone here, but I feel that JP's frequent use of 32nd notes is by no means a turn off, and I think that people that consider his playing cold and devoid of emotion are not hearing the same player I am. Anyone agree?

Well, that's absolutely fine. I find it very easy to distinguish Petrucci's style, but I can understand perfectly that if you can't identify with it, you're not going to get a huge amount of it. Just like I have a problem with Govan - I myself can't hear much individuality, but we all reap different rewards from different musicians, and that's what makes variety so refreshing. The only word I'd question is tasteless - I've moved away from things like jazz, like you have from shred, but I wouldn't ever consider a style that I have gone off tasteless, as such. It all has its place, don't you think?

Fieldofsorrow wrote: What amazes me about this entire discussion is that everyone has attacked Petrucci's emotion, without realising that it's there all along. His light and shade, his mood changes in his lead work, and the emotions that he succinctly evokes are the entire reason why I listen to his work! Every solo conjures a different feeling - 'Lie' is furious, 'As I Am' is menacing, 'Fatal Tragedy' is introspective, 'Under a Glass Moon' has a somewhat celestial feel, and 'Octavarium' is beyond the point of despair.   Whether he is shredding, or playing melodically, I personally feel that Petrucci is a masterful storyteller, and he technically deploys many harmonic devices to captivate me everytime. Sure, I couldn't JUST listen to him and no one else, but that's the same for any player.   And I don't think that's even his strongest asset. For me, he is first and foremost, a songwriter. The musical intricacies of practically all of his work with Dream Theater (perhaps excluding certain moments in Systematic Chaos, and one little slip in Octavarium) is absolutely jaw dropping, and how he so neatly strings these beautifully coherent and dynamic ten, sometimes twenty minute masterpieces together is beyond me. I truly believe he is the best at what he does - that is to say, that he is the best songwriter for progressive metal alive.   He's by no means perfect - but name a guitarist that is? I may be alone here, but I feel that JP's frequent use of 32nd notes is by no means a turn off, and I think that people that consider his playing cold and devoid of emotion are not hearing the same player I am. Anyone agree?

Well, hey I agree with you in terms of the soloing, I see the emotion in his solos, fast or slow as they can be, if not necessarily the song writing part (I honestly don't like the Octavarium album much at all, and Systematic Chaos had many weak spots IMO).
He indeed does have a wide emotional range in his solo, wider than that of many so called "feel" players.
But my problem is, he just doesn't have a very unique voice on the guitar, as I stared above and personally, if I want to listen to a guitarist first and foremost, I go for the guys with that "you can name them straight away from their phrasing in 2 bars" guys like Satriani, Vai, Guthrie Govan and Marty Friedman.

In all truth, I used to be really full on into shred guitar, into the shred guitar scene, but because there are so many guys that just sound the same now and have crap phrasing or vibrato or whatever, it's put me off, and now I only listen to about 7-8 or so instrumental guitarists now really and don't care for the shred scene anymore, and just want to listen to guys with well........tasteful playing, like the guys I mentioned above and a few others.
I still listen to Petrucci's solo album from time to time and enjoy it (and he plays rather tastefully too IMO), but it doesn't give me anywhere near the buzz of listening to a Satch, Vai, Govan or (early work) Friedman album, because I just get so much more inspired hearing those 4 very unique players with their individual phrasing, vibrato, bending style.
And for me, well, part of soul-lessness (well more so, less soul and personality than the other guys I mentioned) in Petrucci's playing isn't so much that his playing isn't emotional at it's core, but more because I don't feel like I'm listening to very unique individual.
I guess, when I hear Satch and Vai, I can literally hear their all their personality coming through into their lead playing, but with Petrucci, it doesn't feel "100 per cent" so to speak like those guys. if I put Govan, Satch, Vai and Friedman on a "unique factor" level of 100, Petrucci is about 65 at absolute most for me.


Edited by HughesJB4 - December 27 2008 at 09:30

What amazes me about this entire discussion is that everyone has attacked Petrucci's emotion, without realising that it's there all along. His light and shade, his mood changes in his lead work, and the emotions that he succinctly evokes are the entire reason why I listen to his work! Every solo conjures a different feeling - 'Lie' is furious, 'As I Am' is menacing, 'Fatal Tragedy' is introspective, 'Under a Glass Moon' has a somewhat celestial feel, and 'Octavarium' is beyond the point of despair.

topofsm wrote: I have to say that I think my favorite Petrucci solo is probably in "Stream of Consciousness" starting around the 3:50 mark. For such a blisteringly fast solo, in my opinion it's very well written. Most Petrucci(and metal in general) solos are bits of flurries of notes in the same key thrown together so it's just a mishmash of a few quick phrases. However, "Stream of Consciousness" is rather consistent, and I enjoy it very much.   Does anybody else agree with me?

I would say the culminating solo in "Stream of Consciousness" is definitely in my top 5 Dream Theater moments, and possibly his best solo, edging out--from what I can remember now--the culminating solo in "Octavarium" and the numerous leads in "Learning to Live."

Equality 7-2521 wrote: HughesJB4 wrote:   But it must be said, being able to combine incredible rhythm guitar prowess with ferocious technical lead playing is a pretty amazing. He has the rhythm guitar capabilities of James Hetfield on metal riffage times 5, and add to the fact he can do it while crossing an array of dizzying time signature and tempo changes, his rhythm playing is a feat to behold.   I would say Hetfield has a step over him, but this is a very good point. It's his main job in the band and I think a lot of recent work suffers because he inundates it with solos and neglects the quality of his riffs.

Djm912 wrote: I don't understand why every guitarist that happens to be in a heavier band that might play a solo that may have a few more notes always gets called an Malmsteen-esque automaton. As if The Spirit Carries on and Repetance don't exist at all.......

p0mt3 wrote: ^cobb, I definately understand where you are cominf from, though.   Like I say, I enjoy Dream Theater, and alot of times it feels like people on this site can either praise them as if they are almighty, or crap on them like they are the worst ban d to ever garce these pages. Neither of which of course is true.   Truth is . . . I think "Images and Words" was one of the greatest Prog Metal records ever made. "Awake" took the band's diversity even further, and "Falling Into Infinity" was the band's Crossover record, if you will. "Metropolis Pt. 2" would be the last DT album to have complete substance, in my opinion,l and even then, I can here much more ripped-off material on that record than any of the band's previous.   My criticism of JP's playing isn't because I think I can do any better (He's clearly one of the best guitar players of all time in terms of technicallity), all I am saying is that the man has the potential to write some really killer tunes, and instead usually just turns to unnecessary w**kery in place of emotional playing. Those instances have increased more and more over time, and I don't know why he feels that every song has to be a technical masterpiece.   I don't dislike the band, and I think Equality is in pretty much the same mindset as myself in that we know Petrucci can do better, yet he chooses to show off more often than not these days. It's a bit heartbreaking. :(