OK! So. A little while back I was learning how to "play like John Petrucci" out of his Wild Stringdom book...and there's some things that I get, and some things that I try asking my dad what it means and he's even like, "wtf." lol

 

 

Petrucci, like most guitarists into prog rock, loves the technicality of the music. Unlike most guitarists, Johnny loves playing technically- but he makes it sound right. Sometimes, maybe there's a few riffs in a song where he's like, "Ehh, I'm bored." and he just throws it in because it fits. Hey, I don't blame him, I'd do the exact same thing probably. Only not as godly. Haha ^_~

 

OK, well I'm bored of this.

That's way Zappa is awesome. Not only are his solo interesting, but they're technical as well.

 

Champion of the prog-rock guitar solo?

 

YESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYES

 

oh ps fred frith 4 lyfe!!!

This.

Petrucci wouldn't crack my top 20 guitarists, my top 200 if we include only current material.

What I'm trying to say is listen to some Fripp/Frith.

Yes, but it's also hard to tell what he did make it for. ;-)

 

I always thought Comfortably Numb was super overrated, especially compared to everything else Gilmour did before that.

 

Oh wait, on topic (I'm just going to guess what the topic is?). I kind of liked LTE 2, but I haven't listened to it in forever because I didn't like it that much.

Yes I've obviously never listened to Dream Theater, because if I had there's no way I could have a negative opinion of any aspect of the band. 

 

I'm sorry, but I just can't agree with this. If music isx actual art (which I happen to believe that it is) then all of the ingrediants must be there to serve the piece, and not show off the artists's abilities. That's just pompous and self-indlugent.

 

And as for making the technical playing sound 'right' as you say, well . . . You've obviousely been listening to a very different Dream Theater than I have.

 

Don't get me wrong, Petrucci's great, but he isn't a very good melody maker. He's more of a sports player. He looks at his instrument like it's a way to train agility and endurance, when he should be looking at it as a tool for getting what is in your soul musically out into the world. Hell, even when he covers Gilmour he can't resists butchering the solos all to hell by playing overly technical variations. Wtahc DT's DSotM to see what I mean. The man cannot play slow for very long at all.

 

++++++++++!

 

And guess what? That was the only solo John improvised in the studio. He actually played what he felt at the time. Proof that playing what you feel is much better than playing what looks technically adept on paper.

 

"The Spirit Carries On" is a beautiful song, but it is full or blatant rip-offs from past bands. LaBrie is singing style is straight out of The Wall, Waters-style. The guitar solo at the end is ripping off the solo from Marillion's "Sugarmice".

 

And you're using that song as an example of DT's originality? I would say mostly anyhing off of Images and Words or Awake would be much better examples than Spirit. Just my opinion.

 

Petrucci used to play really beautiful melodies, but anymore he seems to always need to shred in order to feel like he's making an adequate song. When a musician gets in that mindset, it's hard to take them seriousely as an artist. True artists know when to play alot and when to play a little. The styles can work either way, but you have to know when the appropriate time arrives. If you w**k all over what could potentially be a beautiful song simply to remind yourself that you're a master guitarist, then what is the point?

 

 

 

Having said this, I am quite fond of Dream Theater, but anyone who thinks they are the first of their kind or revolutionary in any way needs to dig much deeper into the Archives here. Just my opinion. They are good, but not original. That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it.

Yes, I agree- that was rather rude and assumptive of me... and for that I apologise.

 

Like I say, I enjoy Dream Theater, and alot of times it feels like people on this site can either praise them as if they are almighty, or crap on them like they are the worst ban d to ever garce these pages. Neither of which of course is true.

 

Truth is . . . I think "Images and Words" was one of the greatest Prog Metal records ever made. "Awake" took the band's diversity even further, and "Falling Into Infinity" was the band's Crossover record, if you will. "Metropolis Pt. 2" would be the last DT album to have complete substance, in my opinion,l and even then, I can here much more ripped-off material on that record than any of the band's previous.

 

My criticism of JP's playing isn't because I think I can do any better (He's clearly one of the best guitar players of all time in terms of technicallity), all I am saying is that the man has the potential to write some really killer tunes, and instead usually just turns to unnecessary w**kery in place of emotional playing. Those instances have increased more and more over time, and I don't know why he feels that every song has to be a technical masterpiece.

 

I don't dislike the band, and I think Equality is in pretty much the same mindset as myself in that we know Petrucci can do better, yet he chooses to show off more often than not these days. It's a bit heartbreaking. :(

 

Well said, my friend.

 

Sometimes I fear that my complaints against Petrucci sound way harsher than I intend them to, so in the long run my feelings about him are pretty divided, but I certainly don't hate the guy. In fact, I admire him ni alot of ways. It's very difficult to explain my opinion of him without sounding contradictory, but hopefully you know what I mean.

Exactly how I feel. I would say Awake may be the greatest Prog Metal album ever made. WDaDU is one of my favorites too despite that its a bit derivative. 

And thanks cobb no hard feelings. It just frustrating that whenever you seem to criticize DT a firestorm comes down. I used to post at a DT forum and I was told I'm not a real fan because I didn't like anything after SFaM, despite me owning everything the band's ever released. I ended up getting banned actually because I said Chroma Key's DAfR is as good as or better than every DT album barring Awake.

I would say Hetfield has a step over him, but this is a very good point. It's his main job in the band and I think a lot of recent work suffers because he inundates it with solos and neglects the quality of his riffs.

 

 

Exactly! The Repentance solo, along with solos in songs such as Under a Glass Moon, Forsaken, and In the Name of God are freaking AMAZING!!!! Yet people think that they suck just because they're played in 32nd notes rather than quarter notes. lol

 

Does anybody else agree with me?

 

I think this is a good point. I personally love Petrucci's work but can't deny that his most glorious soloing-days are past him. The burden of having to carry both ends of the guitar spectrum (riffing+soloing) in a style of music that in theory should demand high quality of both has taken a toll lately. That's why, until SC, all DT albums since SFAM were just good for me. The fantastic solos of Awajke or SFAM or I&W or even FII (Lines in the sand) are not so recurrent now...

 

But he always had that role of riffing and soloing. Probably he is not as inspired as before , I happen to like more his recent riffs  (like in TOT) than his solos. Or probably his solos did stand out on the first albums for the reason that Kevin Moore's playing complimented him. Whit the arrival of Ruddess DT is all about solos. We may be overwhelmed by them

 

Think about it: let's say you're Petrucci. You're deep down nothing more than a little kid from Long Island who loved Prog rock and Metal and hoped to start a band one day that would compliment both.

 

But how does the world see you? As a metal guitar god who is always expected to play faster and more technically with each successive release. On top of that, you've got not one but THREE jobs in the recording studio. One: you are the lead guitarist. Two: you are the rhythm guitarist. Three: you are the album's co-producer.

 

All those expectations to live up to, your priorities musically can get a bit muddled after awhile. I know I sure as hell would have a hard time figuring out what aspect of the music is more important after awhile.

 

I think JP ends up writing primarily from a solo perspective these days and leaves the rhythm sections on the back burner primarily because realistically he can only play one of the parts live. Jorden Rudess can only do so much to emulate JP's rhythm lines, and on top of that, he has his own keyboard playing to worry about. Petrucci probably feels like if he leaves his rhythm sections simple and sweet and primarily focuses on his lead work, it will help the songs not sound all that different when played live. And of course he's going to play the solos live, I mean that's what he's about.

 

Unfortunately it seems that things have gone into the extreme as of late, and his lead playing is consrtantly frantic and technical, while his rhythm work is quickly becoming non-existant.

 

I think the break the guys took between 8VM and SC was good for them, but I still found the new album a bit too focused on the aggresive side of things.

 

Maybe JP has just lost whatever it was before that inspired him to be more emotional with his playing?

 

Whether he is shredding, or playing melodically, I personally feel that Petrucci is a masterful storyteller, and he technically deploys many harmonic devices to captivate me everytime. Sure, I couldn't JUST listen to him and no one else, but that's the same for any player.

 

And I don't think that's even his strongest asset. For me, he is first and foremost, a songwriter. The musical intricacies of practically all of his work with Dream Theater (perhaps excluding certain moments in Systematic Chaos, and one little slip in Octavarium) is absolutely jaw dropping, and how he so neatly strings these beautifully coherent and dynamic ten, sometimes twenty minute masterpieces together is beyond me. I truly believe he is the best at what he does - that is to say, that he is the best songwriter for progressive metal alive.

 

He's by no means perfect - but name a guitarist that is? I may be alone here, but I feel that JP's frequent use of 32nd notes is by no means a turn off, and I think that people that consider his playing cold and devoid of emotion are not hearing the same player I am. Anyone agree?

 

That can be your opinion. That's fine.

 

It isn't mine.

It's fine if a different aesthetic tickles you emotionally, but for me and a lot of people here it just doesn't cut it. Personally nothing JP has done after Awake besides his Evening with... album has had any impact on me besides in the cool riff department. Exception maybe to two songs.

Voice heard. And no not much going after Justice despite me being fond of some of it.

 

But hey, I like the combination of harmonic innovation and the presence of the emotions created by them. And I respect and understand fully the reasons why you get bored of them. Being a big fan of Dream Theater will naturally lead me to disagree about many aspects about the writing of music with others, but I'm always happy to discuss these things because I love music so much.  

 

I absolutely agree with you.

 

And as I've said before, I really don't hate Petrucci at all. He's great for what he does, but what he does is something I'm not that personally moved by. I still like DT alot.

 

I feel as if I come off as a Petrucci 'basher' when I give my opinion about him, but I honestly don't mean to come off that harsh to folks.

 

When I think about it, we're probably all quite similar in that respect, it's just what we look for to satisfy our needs that differs.

 

Well, they WERE in the jazz part of Berklee, or whatever. lol or so I hear.

 

I would love to see them playing jazz. I mean , real jazz not "LTE2 jazz". In my opinion solos have to be built and played in the right moment , the best guitarrists in the world know that. Petrucci kinda forgot about this

 

Are you serious? There are plenty of guitarrists out there that outshine him. Zappa , Fripp , Vai. Holdsworth Even among the less known ones: Scott Henderson and a japanese guitarrist called  "Yoxox" from the group Ain Soph. All of them have something in common , a signature sound JP in my opinion lacks of.

Of course if you talk about technical aspects he is said to be among the best but I don't care about that.

Is liking it a requirement?

 

But Dream Theater's FULL of emotion- I don't understand why people don't think they are. Ever heard Hollow Years? Just Let Me Breathe? Even Repentance contains a certain amount of feeling. Petrucci doesn't shred on some songs....but even when he does, it just makes the song better =)

 

Yes. lol no actually, liking the Train of Thought album is a requirement. If you don't, then you're not a real Dream Theater fan. lol jk XD

 

...what band? Or is that the band name? lol

 

lol it's...interesting. XD

Well I agree that you're not a Dream Theater fan if you don't like it, but why would I want to be a Dream Theater fan? :P

 

I was asking in reference to being on this website.

 

See , there is life beyond shredding!

 

Because Dream Theater

is

AMAZING. ^_^

 

Well I just got SFAM this past week (I'm still working on my DT collection) and I've listened to it about 3 times and I still don't see what the whole fuss is about.

 

Maybe a couple more times will help.

 

I think my favorite Petrucci solos are as follows:

 

1. Stream of Consciousness

2. Hell's Kitchen

3. Under a Glass Moon

 

They all utilize the shred technique, and IMO they are all extremely well written. I enjoy well written solos, as opposed to oppurtunities to throw a few shred phrases together and call it a solo.

Yeah, I know, I meant shredding more in a relative sense, it's not face-melting shredding we are talking about when it's Hackett  -he has done tapping on Dancing With The Moonlit Knight by the way and a few other Genesis songs, I know of this song for sure because I have seen him use tapping in the video of this song. And there is the incredibly elegant use of tapping in Shadow of the Hierophant which makes for  a nice contrast with the most popular example of tapping in rock - Eruption, which came out about three years later. My experience of Hackett's solo records stops at Spectral Mornings, so I don't know if he used shredding in the more conventional, furious sense in later albums, knowing what little I do of the man, I doubt it.  It would not do for Hackett to burn the axe when he can caress it as lovingly as he can.   Anyway, as I said, I can well understand that people would not find his style exciting enough because they might look for different things from electric guitar, it's all down to one's tastes.

 

Argument over