John Petrucci iz Da Shiz.

Kestrel wrote: As I saw in someone's signature once: Gilmour gets more emotion out of a single note bend than Petrucci does in a whole guitar solo.

That's bull, sorry. It's just not true at all.

And I don't even like Dream Theater. But I believe in giving credit where credit is due. Petrucci's playing can be very emotional too.

Having said that, this thread is utterly unnecessary. Lock and hide.

^cobb, I definately understand where you are cominf from, though.

Well I only just realized this thread was not originally in the Appreciation section, so my bad if I sounded a bit harsh earlier

Well, as much as I think The Spirit Carries on is a great song and has one of Petrucci's finest solos, p0mt3 is right in that the song is pretty unoriginal really, and honestly, that song lets down the album a bit, and overall I think I&W is a superior album to SFAM anyway.
If I must be honest as well, I don't like Octavarium much at all, I skip past about half of the tracks on FII and same for Systematic Chaos.
Quite frankly, I've gotten sick of Petrucci and Rudess' 'widdly wee' solos and want to well.........hear them actually put their musical training to maximum use.
These guys have a whole head full of orchestration knowledge and could create some pretty immense music, but they just don't and honestly now, I don't have much hope for any future studio releases from the band.

My other complaint with Petrucci, is his leads just don't sound all that unique.
What I mean really, is that I can hear guys like Joe Satriani, Steve Vai, Guthrie Govan, Steve Hackett, Marty Friedman,  and within a few phrases, I can tell it's them, because these guys all have such a unique voice on the guitar and have signature phrasing.
Whereas, if I just turned on a radio and heard a Petrucci solo,  I might not know it until a radio announcer at the end told it was Petrucci, because I've never been able to really hear much uniqueness in his leads.
I mean sure enough, when watching the G3 Live In Tokyo DVD, during the jam you can tell when it's Petrucci, but outside that kinda of environment playing with other guitarists, when he's playing as a lone guitarist, his style doesn't have any real phrasing that makes me think "Oh, that's Petrucci".
And because of that, he doesn't even get into my top 20 guitarists really.

As for his chops, I think of about 100 guys off the top of my head that can easily outstrip him technically.
Shawn Lane comes to mind (the guy could do things in legato, alternate and sweep picking Petrucci can't even get close to), and Lane was a master of emotion too IMO.

But it must be said, being able to combine incredible rhythm guitar prowess with ferocious technical lead playing is a pretty amazing.
He has the rhythm guitar capabilities of James Hetfield on metal riffage times 5, and add to the fact he can do it while crossing an array of dizzying time signature and tempo changes, his rhythm playing is a feat to behold.
And Petrucci is always gonna be an influence of mine, and to some extent a guitar hero to me too.



Edited by HughesJB4 - December 25 2008 at 20:16

HughesJB4 wrote: My other complaint with Petrucci, is his leads just don't sound all that unique. What I mean really, is that I can hear guys like Joe Satriani, Steve Vai, Guthrie Govan, Steve Hackett, Marty Friedman,  and within a few phrases, I can tell it's them, because these guys all have such a unique voice on the guitar and have signature phrasing.

Thank you, I have said the same thing to budding guitarists and Dream Theater fans and they disagreed vehemently and put it down to my not being a guitarist and of course I couldn't argue with that. Now I know I was not entirely off the mark.

p0mt3 wrote: ^cobb, I definately understand where you are cominf from, though.   Like I say, I enjoy Dream Theater, and alot of times it feels like people on this site can either praise them as if they are almighty, or crap on them like they are the worst ban d to ever garce these pages. Neither of which of course is true.   Truth is . . . I think "Images and Words" was one of the greatest Prog Metal records ever made. "Awake" took the band's diversity even further, and "Falling Into Infinity" was the band's Crossover record, if you will. "Metropolis Pt. 2" would be the last DT album to have complete substance, in my opinion,l and even then, I can here much more ripped-off material on that record than any of the band's previous.   My criticism of JP's playing isn't because I think I can do any better (He's clearly one of the best guitar players of all time in terms of technicallity), all I am saying is that the man has the potential to write some really killer tunes, and instead usually just turns to unnecessary w**kery in place of emotional playing. Those instances have increased more and more over time, and I don't know why he feels that every song has to be a technical masterpiece.   I don't dislike the band, and I think Equality is in pretty much the same mindset as myself in that we know Petrucci can do better, yet he chooses to show off more often than not these days. It's a bit heartbreaking. :(

Djm912 wrote: I don't understand why every guitarist that happens to be in a heavier band that might play a solo that may have a few more notes always gets called an Malmsteen-esque automaton. As if The Spirit Carries on and Repetance don't exist at all.......

Equality 7-2521 wrote: HughesJB4 wrote:   But it must be said, being able to combine incredible rhythm guitar prowess with ferocious technical lead playing is a pretty amazing. He has the rhythm guitar capabilities of James Hetfield on metal riffage times 5, and add to the fact he can do it while crossing an array of dizzying time signature and tempo changes, his rhythm playing is a feat to behold.   I would say Hetfield has a step over him, but this is a very good point. It's his main job in the band and I think a lot of recent work suffers because he inundates it with solos and neglects the quality of his riffs.

topofsm wrote: I have to say that I think my favorite Petrucci solo is probably in "Stream of Consciousness" starting around the 3:50 mark. For such a blisteringly fast solo, in my opinion it's very well written. Most Petrucci(and metal in general) solos are bits of flurries of notes in the same key thrown together so it's just a mishmash of a few quick phrases. However, "Stream of Consciousness" is rather consistent, and I enjoy it very much.   Does anybody else agree with me?

I would say the culminating solo in "Stream of Consciousness" is definitely in my top 5 Dream Theater moments, and possibly his best solo, edging out--from what I can remember now--the culminating solo in "Octavarium" and the numerous leads in "Learning to Live."

What amazes me about this entire discussion is that everyone has attacked Petrucci's emotion, without realising that it's there all along. His light and shade, his mood changes in his lead work, and the emotions that he succinctly evokes are the entire reason why I listen to his work! Every solo conjures a different feeling - 'Lie' is furious, 'As I Am' is menacing, 'Fatal Tragedy' is introspective, 'Under a Glass Moon' has a somewhat celestial feel, and 'Octavarium' is beyond the point of despair.

Fieldofsorrow wrote: What amazes me about this entire discussion is that everyone has attacked Petrucci's emotion, without realising that it's there all along. His light and shade, his mood changes in his lead work, and the emotions that he succinctly evokes are the entire reason why I listen to his work! Every solo conjures a different feeling - 'Lie' is furious, 'As I Am' is menacing, 'Fatal Tragedy' is introspective, 'Under a Glass Moon' has a somewhat celestial feel, and 'Octavarium' is beyond the point of despair.   Whether he is shredding, or playing melodically, I personally feel that Petrucci is a masterful storyteller, and he technically deploys many harmonic devices to captivate me everytime. Sure, I couldn't JUST listen to him and no one else, but that's the same for any player.   And I don't think that's even his strongest asset. For me, he is first and foremost, a songwriter. The musical intricacies of practically all of his work with Dream Theater (perhaps excluding certain moments in Systematic Chaos, and one little slip in Octavarium) is absolutely jaw dropping, and how he so neatly strings these beautifully coherent and dynamic ten, sometimes twenty minute masterpieces together is beyond me. I truly believe he is the best at what he does - that is to say, that he is the best songwriter for progressive metal alive.   He's by no means perfect - but name a guitarist that is? I may be alone here, but I feel that JP's frequent use of 32nd notes is by no means a turn off, and I think that people that consider his playing cold and devoid of emotion are not hearing the same player I am. Anyone agree?

Well, hey I agree with you in terms of the soloing, I see the emotion in his solos, fast or slow as they can be, if not necessarily the song writing part (I honestly don't like the Octavarium album much at all, and Systematic Chaos had many weak spots IMO).
He indeed does have a wide emotional range in his solo, wider than that of many so called "feel" players.
But my problem is, he just doesn't have a very unique voice on the guitar, as I stared above and personally, if I want to listen to a guitarist first and foremost, I go for the guys with that "you can name them straight away from their phrasing in 2 bars" guys like Satriani, Vai, Guthrie Govan and Marty Friedman.

In all truth, I used to be really full on into shred guitar, into the shred guitar scene, but because there are so many guys that just sound the same now and have crap phrasing or vibrato or whatever, it's put me off, and now I only listen to about 7-8 or so instrumental guitarists now really and don't care for the shred scene anymore, and just want to listen to guys with well........tasteful playing, like the guys I mentioned above and a few others.
I still listen to Petrucci's solo album from time to time and enjoy it (and he plays rather tastefully too IMO), but it doesn't give me anywhere near the buzz of listening to a Satch, Vai, Govan or (early work) Friedman album, because I just get so much more inspired hearing those 4 very unique players with their individual phrasing, vibrato, bending style.
And for me, well, part of soul-lessness (well more so, less soul and personality than the other guys I mentioned) in Petrucci's playing isn't so much that his playing isn't emotional at it's core, but more because I don't feel like I'm listening to very unique individual.
I guess, when I hear Satch and Vai, I can literally hear their all their personality coming through into their lead playing, but with Petrucci, it doesn't feel "100 per cent" so to speak like those guys. if I put Govan, Satch, Vai and Friedman on a "unique factor" level of 100, Petrucci is about 65 at absolute most for me.


Edited by HughesJB4 - December 27 2008 at 09:30