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DavetheSlave
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2007
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 492
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Posted: December 12 2008 at 12:56 |
You know - the strange thing is that we in the West are very liberal and very free to do or say most things!!!!
Try messing with the Islamic religion in Art or in any other form - the results could be messy!!!!! Why is it that we do what we do and say what we say!!!!!
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WinterLight
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 09 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 424
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Posted: December 12 2008 at 13:09 |
DavetheSlave wrote:
You know - the strange thing is that we in the West are very liberal and very free to do or say most things!!!!
Try messing with the Islamic religion in Art or in any other form - the results could be messy!!!!! Why is it that we do what we do and say what we say!!!!! |
I'm afraid that you're conflating political freedom with social tolerance. Indeed, in the Western nations, particularly in the US, the state places very few restrictions on speech. Still, institutionalized political rights are not the same as de facto rights. For example, a person may find himself in social "hot water" if he makes claims that are not acceptable to certain groups. In this way, Christendom is that much different than some of the Islamic countries, with, however, the significant distinction that in some nations Islamic groups hold a certain amount of political authority (one could counter this, of course, with the examples of Italy, or to a lesser extent, Spain).
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DavetheSlave
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2007
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 492
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Posted: December 12 2008 at 13:13 |
Does that not make an Islam believer more devoted and loyal to his God than we are!!!!!
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: December 12 2008 at 13:15 |
Until six months ago in the UK you could be prosecuted and sent to prison for blasphemy - 400 years ago they would have burned you at the stake for the same crime.
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What?
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WinterLight
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 09 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 424
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Posted: December 12 2008 at 13:19 |
DavetheSlave wrote:
Does that not make an Islam believer more devoted and loyal to his God than we are!!!!!
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Actually, Muslims, Jews, and Christians believe in the same god (i.e., the Abrahamic god, Yahweh, or Allah if you prefer); of course, it doesn't usually do to say this. Perhaps a fundamentalist (you easily can find Judeo-Christian ones, too!) is more devoted to his beliefs, but I don't see this as a good thing. It implies that the person believes that he, not his god as he likely would claim, is infallible. And belief in personal infallibility can lead nowhere but to destruction, be it external or internal.
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WinterLight
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 09 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 424
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Posted: December 12 2008 at 13:25 |
DavetheSlave wrote:
You can hardly discipline your own child today without it being abhorant to Society.
I see it as progress when society objects to violent methods of child rearing.
I got caned in school and I new that I had done wrong - it was the best deterant that I ever saw!!
Ends up as a matter of self-preservation, not moral choice. You don't commit a particular deed because of fear of the consequences, not necessarily because you object to the deed in principle. It's really a hollow morality.
Psychological Spock like child rearing methods today have made schools battle zones and many children into problem cases.
Requires evidence, the existence of which is dubious at best.
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DavetheSlave
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2007
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 492
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Posted: December 12 2008 at 13:30 |
Hi Winterlight -I can't agree with you - I think that the entire Western World will today admit to a problem with the youth!!! I see it proven in African tribalism where the Elders are admitting that the youth have become out of control to a large extent. We have never had the worldwide problems that we face today!!!
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The Doctor
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 23 2005
Location: The Tardis
Status: Offline
Points: 8543
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Posted: December 12 2008 at 13:40 |
DavetheSlave wrote:
Hi Winterlight -I can't agree with you - I think that the entire Western World will today admit to a problem with the youth!!! I see it proven in African tribalism where the Elders are admitting that the youth have become out of control to a large extent. We have never had the worldwide problems that we face today!!! |
Every generation thinks that the youth of the day have become out of control. That's been going on for thousands of years.
In fact, here's a quote from Zog (chief of one of the tribes of Neanderthal)...Zog uh na Kran (translation: my son Kran sleeps well past sunrise, never joins in the hunt and the pictures he's drawing on the walls are disturbing and disgusting; the children of today are completely out of control).
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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: December 12 2008 at 13:49 |
WinterLight wrote:
Actually, Muslims, Jews, and Christians believe in the same god (i.e., the Abrahamic god, Yahweh, or Allah if you prefer); of course, it doesn't usually do to say this. Perhaps a fundamentalist (you easily can find Judeo-Christian ones, too!) is more devoted to his beliefs, but I don't see this as a good thing. It implies that the person believes that he, not his god as he likely would claim, is infallible. And belief in personal infallibility can lead nowhere but to destruction, be it external or internal.
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DavetheSlave
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2007
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 492
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Posted: December 12 2008 at 14:03 |
Just my perceptions guys!!!!
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DavetheSlave
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2007
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 492
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Posted: December 12 2008 at 14:28 |
It's become very obvious to me that very many of you guys don't know the real history of Rock Music!!!! You don't know about the Levay / Rock music connection or the Alistair Crowley Rock music connection!!!!!
It's very obvious to me that many people don't know about the Beach Boys - Wilson / Manson connection!!!!
Oh well - it's not for me to go into those things - maybe someone else can under a different thread!!!
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Queen By-Tor
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 13 2006
Location: Xanadu
Status: Offline
Points: 16111
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Posted: December 12 2008 at 14:46 |
I am sorry for our clear ignorance towards rock.
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DavetheSlave
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2007
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 492
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Posted: December 12 2008 at 14:48 |
You don't have to apologise - please!!! - the subject makes for some very very interesting reading and discovery!!!! If you google those connections you may be very suprised about what comes out!!!!
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Queen By-Tor
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 13 2006
Location: Xanadu
Status: Offline
Points: 16111
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Posted: December 12 2008 at 14:51 |
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: December 12 2008 at 14:56 |
What the hell... this thread need another:
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DavetheSlave
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2007
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 492
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Posted: December 12 2008 at 15:09 |
Guys- Unfortunately or fortunately for me I'm an obsessive personality. Many years ago I took an interest in Sharks and that led to me finding out all I could about them. I learned a lot and that led to me working with Nat Geographic and the Costeau Foundation once on an investigation into the Zambesi (Bull shark).
One of my other loves - since around the age of 10, was Rock music. I watched the growth of the likes of The Who, Black Sabbath, Uriah Heep, Pink Floyd etc. I also developed an interest into the Occult (which today I don't regret because it taught me a lot). I developed a compulsion to discover all that I could about Occult / music links. I learned more than what I would like to know today!! I still love Rock music but I am very wary regarding some of it!
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sean
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 02 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1155
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Posted: December 12 2008 at 16:54 |
The Doctor wrote:
DavetheSlave wrote:
Hi Winterlight -I can't agree with you - I think that the entire Western World will today admit to a problem with the youth!!! I see it proven in African tribalism where the Elders are admitting that the youth have become out of control to a large extent. We have never had the worldwide problems that we face today!!! |
Every generation thinks that the youth of the day have become out of control. That's been going on for thousands of years.
In fact, here's a quote from Zog (chief of one of the tribes of Neanderthal)...Zog uh na Kran (translation: my son Kran sleeps well past sunrise, never joins in the hunt and the pictures he's drawing on the walls are disturbing and disgusting; the children of today are completely out of control). |
I believe Socrates also made a similar comment about the youth of his day.
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June
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 03 2008
Location: Montreal
Status: Offline
Points: 6521
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Posted: December 12 2008 at 16:57 |
DavetheSlave wrote:
It's become very obvious to me that very many of you guys don't know the real history of Rock Music!!!! You don't know about the Levay / Rock music connection or the Alistair Crowley Rock music connection!!!!!
It's very obvious to me that many people don't know about the Beach Boys - Wilson / Manson connection!!!!
Oh well - it's not for me to go into those things - maybe someone else can under a different thread!!! |
What Wilson/Manson connection?
I'm assuming you mean Charles Manson?
I heard he found his ideas listening to The Beatles' White Album... which shows to me that people can read just whatever the heck they want in lyrics. The lyrics are not the problems, people's interpretations are. (same with sacred texts).
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DavetheSlave
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2007
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 492
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Posted: December 12 2008 at 17:00 |
Hey June - there was a very large friendship between Wilson and Manson!!! THe Beach Boys in fact occupied a property through Manson for a while!!!!
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prog4evr
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 22 2005
Location: Wuhan, China
Status: Offline
Points: 1455
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Posted: December 13 2008 at 04:03 |
DavetheSlave wrote:
I, for one, don't listen to certain bands where the lyrics are rabidly anti Christian...If Rush can sing about a Red Sports car then I don't see why anyone has to sing about a love affair with Satan or a Demon positively.
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Job is a hard OT book to read through, but if you do, you see that God rebukes him for virtually denying his faith (because he wished he had never been born). I think if you want to censor anti-Christian prog lyrics, you would have to censor portions of the book of Job, and other Bible books like it, that come off as anti-God or anti-Christian. All people are in the process of accepting the Lord's invitation to salvation, or rejecting it. So, "don't shoot the messenger" just because the message seems to be defaming the character of God. Believe me, the more you read the whole Bible, the more you see God can take it! (I am an Bible-believing Christian myself, BTW...)
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