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cobb2 
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Joined: November 25 2007
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 Posted: December 08 2008 at 19:34 |
 Atavachron wrote:
if the question is "will Prog become popular?", sure there's always a chance that prog rock could see some big chart success as it did in the early 70s (Passion Play #1 on US charts).. but if the question is will Pop become Prog, then no, I don't see that happening ..pop is what it is in all its occasional glory, and will retain its traits of brevity, digestibility, and melodic appeal
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Very well put... Sums up the argument nicely.
Ivan- I've got Yes at QPR. And this is after Tales where they fell from grace with the music rags.. and still popular. In my opinion it could have been their greatest historical recording- except for the extremely bad mixing. Back on topic. That quote of Emersons you put up sums up why prog will never be popular- who in the world wants to invest time and energy trying to understand something that makes absolutely no sense! And that is your average "Turn on the radio while I do the housework, dear" listener.
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jammun
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Points: 3449
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 19:26 |
Maybe I'm crazy, but didn't pop music (i.e., rock) become prog once already? No reason it couldn't happen again.
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Proggg
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 19:24 |
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Pop music becoming prog = Wishful thinking/utter delusion
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A windstorm dropped a bird from the sky
It fell to the ground and it's wings broke and died
But when the time got by, back to sky it flied cause the wings healed in time and the bird was I-Wintersun
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micky
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 19:05 |
valravennz wrote:
Pop = New Prog? Maybe if relating it to such groups as Radiohead and Muse for example. But can we really include such genres as Rap/Hip Hop, R n B, Country and Reggae and straight out Pop eg: "I Kissed A Girl...", "I Saw Mommy Kissing Santa Claus" etc. I am prepared to consider the merits of Alternative and Roots but the other genres - Heck no! What is progressive about them??? |
rock... R n B... country.... just what IS the difference really... preference perhaps?... does it have to ROCK to be prog. This site has answered that definitively...answered it in the negative.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Atavachron
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 19:04 |
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if the question is "will Prog become popular?", sure there's always a chance that prog rock could see some big chart success as it did in the early 70s (Passion Play #1 on US charts).. but if the question is will Pop become Prog, then no, I don't see that happening ..pop is what it is in all its occasional glory, and will retain its traits of brevity, digestibility, and melodic appeal
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 19:02 |
cobb2 wrote:
No Ivan- it would not become pop it would be popular |
 In the same way Prog would become Popular and not POP
cobb2 wrote:
Anyway, I am just stirring the pot here. I agree entirely that pop is based on certain compositional rules. Rules that I find uneventful and boring- how many times can you listen to a I IV V progression. |
I agree, but MOST POP is even less interesting than the classic I-IV-V Progression of Rock & Roll, because they isnsit in the boring formula of a catchy chorus and predicatble verse..
cobb2 wrote:
But there are loads of examples where prog has been popular- that is all. |
Of course, if you seen Yes at QPR, is amazing the number of fans they had in 1974 or Kansas and of course Pink Floyd, they were Popular denying it would be silly, but they appeared partly as a reaction to POP, this musicians wanted to do something transcendental, that most POP artists don't care about.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - December 08 2008 at 19:03
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valravennz
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 19:01 |
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Pop = New Prog? Maybe if relating it to such groups as Radiohead and Muse for example. But can we really include such genres as Rap/Hip Hop, R n B, Country and Reggae and straight out Pop eg: "I Kissed A Girl...", "I Saw Mommy Kissing Santa Claus" etc. I am prepared to consider the merits of Alternative and Roots but the other genres - Heck no! What is progressive about them???
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"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence"
- Robert Fripp
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micky
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 18:57 |
cobb2 wrote:
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
cobb2 wrote:
Ivan- pop is a shortening of popular- music that the masses like, purchase and relish.
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Since the end of the early 60's POP is considered a specific genre, with an own structure....Or do you believe that if a jazz album swells 20'000,000 copies will cease to be Jazz to become POP?
Or if 10'000,000 persons bought Seven (The clñassical album of Tony Banks) it would become instantly POP?
In the same way if The Lamb would had sold 50'000,000 copies it would never had became POP, because it has a tortally different structure and influences.
POP may have been born as a short term for popular, but since three or four decades, the term has a completely different meaning that covers the conservative evolution of Rock.
Merry Christmas also. 
Iván
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No Ivan- it would not become pop it would be popular.
Anyway, I am just stirring the pot here. I agree entirely that pop is based on certain compositional rules. Rules that I find uneventful and boring- how many times can you listen to a I IV V progression.
But there are loads of examples where prog has been popular- that is all. |
and when you have pop songs...err... the worst dirges of pop music to some... LOVE songs done in "5/4, then 4/4, to 7/8 and ending in 5/8 you have .. prog pop heaven. 
Edited by micky - December 08 2008 at 18:58
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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cobb2
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 25 2007
Location: Australia
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Points: 415
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 18:50 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
cobb2 wrote:
Ivan- pop is a shortening of popular- music that the masses like, purchase and relish.
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Since the end of the early 60's POP is considered a specific genre, with an own structure....Or do you believe that if a jazz album swells 20'000,000 copies will cease to be Jazz to become POP?
Or if 10'000,000 persons bought Seven (The clñassical album of Tony Banks) it would become instantly POP?
In the same way if The Lamb would had sold 50'000,000 copies it would never had became POP, because it has a tortally different structure and influences.
POP may have been born as a short term for popular, but since three or four decades, the term has a completely different meaning that covers the conservative evolution of Rock.
Merry Christmas also.
Iván
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No Ivan- it would not become pop it would be popular.
Anyway, I am just stirring the pot here. I agree entirely that pop is based on certain compositional rules. Rules that I find uneventful and boring- how many times can you listen to a I IV V progression.
But there are loads of examples where prog has been popular- that is all.
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micky
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 18:46 |
Dean wrote:
^ There's good and bad in all things - if Radiohead, Mansun or Muse are labelled New Prog (which in some quarters they are) then "All Hail New Prog!" I say  |
amen ...beats the hell out of the regressive sh*t any day... been there ...heard that.. done better.. by better groups.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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topofsm
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Joined: August 17 2008
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 18:46 |
Well, by defenition Country, Metal, Hip-Hop, Alternative, R&B, Prog, Blues, and Reggae are all pop music. Then there's classical and traditional music...
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jplanet
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 18:43 |
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I was wondering if Radiohead and Muse would count -- I suppose they are, given the definition...
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 18:42 |
cobb2 wrote:
Ivan- pop is a shortening of popular- music that the masses like, purchase and relish.
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Since the end of the early 60's POP is considered a specific genre, with an own structure....Or do you believe that if a jazz album swells 20'000,000 copies will cease to be Jazz to become POP?
Or if 10'000,000 persons bought Seven (The clñassical album of Tony Banks) it would become instantly POP?
In the same way if The Lamb would had sold 50'000,000 copies it would never had became POP, because it has a tortally different structure and influences.
POP may have been born as a short term for popular, but since three or four decades, the term has a completely different meaning that covers the conservative evolution of Rock.
If you don't believe Wikipedia or The New Grove Dictionary of Music and Musicians from where the POP definition was taken, you will probably believe a prog artist:
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What is progressive rock ?
"It is music that does progress. It takes an idea and developes it, rather than just repeat it. Pop songs are about repetition and riffs and simplicity. Progressive music takes a riff, turns it inside out, plays it upside down and the other way around, and explores its potential."
Keith Emerson |
He clearly bases his definition of Progressive Rock in it's differences with POP, so it's obvious for almost anybody.
Merry Christmas also.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - December 08 2008 at 18:49
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
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Points: 37575
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 18:37 |
^ There's good and bad in all things - if Radiohead, Mansun or Muse are labelled New Prog (which in some quarters they are) then "All Hail New Prog!" I say
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What?
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jplanet
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 18:33 |
cobb2 wrote:
Jplanet- There are no insults going on here. I thought that's what discussion forums were for- to discuss.... |
Acknowledgment posted simultaneously as your post...Not only will I not defend New Prog, but I will defend its detractors here to the utter end!
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cobb2
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 25 2007
Location: Australia
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Points: 415
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 18:31 |
Jplanet- There are no insults going on here. I thought that's what discussion forums were for- to discuss.
Ivan- pop is a shortening of popular- music that the masses like, purchase and relish.
So discuss on and Merry Christmas to all.
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jplanet
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 18:30 |
Dean wrote:
John, New Prog isn't Neo Prog - they are two different things. New Prog are alt/indie bands with Prog influences, such as The Doves, The Mew, Coldplay and Elbow |
With apologies to you, I say (with apologies to the late Gilda Radner): nevermind! Yeah, New Prog is awful. I say it's open season, insult away! But I'm saving my lightbulb joke for the next thread insulting Neo. That's a good one. I won't have to wait long!
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Dean
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 18:23 |
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John, New Prog isn't Neo Prog - they are two different things. New Prog are alt/indie bands with Prog influences, such as The Doves, The Mew, Coldplay and Elbow
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What?
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micky
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 18:22 |
jplanet wrote:
Wow, in a thread having nothing to do with Neo- or New- Prog, it only took about 8 posts before those subgenre's were insulted twice!
Nice work, guys! Keep it up and you'll continue to alienate huge portions of this forum's members! Merry Christmas!
Q: How many PA members does it take to screw in a light bulb?
A: Three. One to screw in the light bulb, and two to say that Neo Prog sucks!
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hahhahhaha
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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jplanet
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Location: NJ
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 18:19 |
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Wow, in a thread having nothing to do with Neo- or New- Prog, it only took about 8 posts before those subgenre's were insulted twice!
Nice work, guys! Keep it up and you'll continue to alienate huge portions of this forum's members! Merry Christmas!
Q: How many PA members does it take to screw in a light bulb?
A: Three. One to screw in the light bulb, and two to say that Neo Prog sucks!
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Will pop music become prog?
