Gibson or Epiphone guitar??

Okay... right now I have an ugly guitar that just broke. 

If you're a complete beginner go for the Epiphone, you can always upgrade to a Gibson later, make sure you try both the SG and Les Paul though as they do actually sound quite different, in my experience the SG is a much more aggressive guitar then the Les Paul, some people attribute this to the maple top on Les Pauls that's missing on the SGs.

One major difference between the Epiphones and Gibsons these day is where they are made (Korea or USA) and the price, but with modern CNC machines the actual quality of the bodies and necks should be about the same. The most important differences though will be the quality of the hardware installed on the guitars the Epiphone will have cheaper tuners, bridge, pickups, wiring etc. Now the cheaper tuners and bridge won't really affect the sound too much only tuning stability but in my experience any SG or Les Paul will stay in tune for ages. The pickups and other electrical bits though do affect how a guitar will sound. Whislt the Epiphones will sound fairly good and are certainly more than adequate for any beginner the Gibsons will ususally sound better.

I can recommend the Epiphone G400 (the set/glued neck Epi SG), I've had one for a few years now. I don't play it as often as my other guitars but I have set it up so it excells at particular styles.

There are a couple of downsides to the SG and Les Paul, the SG tends to be neck heavy which can be annoying standing up and Les Pauls are really heavy in comparison to a regular Stratocaster style guitar and even the SG.

Mr ProgFreak wrote: Check out the Line6 Variax too, if you have a chance. Compared to a Gibson Les Paul the Variax 300 is much more affordable ... depending on the Gibson model you're considering, you might even buy a Variax 300 and a POD X3 Live for the same price as the Gibson guitar alone. I would particularly recommend this combination for beginners, since it allows you to explore a huge variety of sounds.

Indeed...the guitar player of my band has one of these guitars along with the Pod and it sounds amazing. Way better than my Epiphone Les Paul.


Edited by burritounit - November 27 2008 at 19:18

I have owned a Gibson SG - they sound fabulous but the string tension is very high and is only really recommended for experienced guitarists, not softie weekend players like me - your fretting fingers feel like they are being sliced, and the frets are so high a degree of skill is needed to stop the high 'E'  from slipping off the edge of the neck.   Tony Iommi tuned his guitar down to compensate for high string tension due to his finger problem.

Edited by mystic fred - November 28 2008 at 01:50

N Ellingworth wrote: If you're a complete beginner go for the Epiphone, you can always upgrade to a Gibson later, make sure you try both the SG and Les Paul though as they do actually sound quite different, in my experience the SG is a much more aggressive guitar then the Les Paul, some people attribute this to the maple top on Les Pauls that's missing on the SGs. One major difference between the Epiphones and Gibsons these day is where they are made (Korea or USA) and the price, but with modern CNC machines the actual quality of the bodies and necks should be about the same. The most important differences though will be the quality of the hardware installed on the guitars the Epiphone will have cheaper tuners, bridge, pickups, wiring etc. Now the cheaper tuners and bridge won't really affect the sound too much only tuning stability but in my experience any SG or Les Paul will stay in tune for ages. The pickups and other electrical bits though do affect how a guitar will sound. Whislt the Epiphones will sound fairly good and are certainly more than adequate for any beginner the Gibsons will ususally sound better. I can recommend the Epiphone G400 (the set/glued neck Epi SG), I've had one for a few years now. I don't play it as often as my other guitars but I have set it up so it excells at particular styles. There are a couple of downsides to the SG and Les Paul, the SG tends to be neck heavy which can be annoying standing up and Les Pauls are really heavy in comparison to a regular Stratocaster style guitar and even the SG.

Most of this, is pretty much right.

Modern SG-400s come with Grover Tuners , and they work pretty well.
For high gain applications,  the stock pickups leave a lot to be desired. Too thick and muddy and not clear enough, which will work in stoner rock/metal/drone doom , but wont come across very well for other rock styles, and certainly I would steer clear from the stock pickups for heavy metal applications.

mystic fred wrote: I have owned a Gibson SG - they sound fabulous but the string tension is very high and is only really recommended for experienced guitarists, not softie weekend players like me - your fretting fingers feel like they are being sliced, and the frets are so high a degree of skill is needed to stop the high 'E'  from slipping off the edge of the neck.   Tony Iommi tuned his guitar down to compensate for high string tension due to his finger problem.   A friend of mine has an American Gibson Les Paul and of course sounds fantastic, very deep, bluesy and grunty, and very high output from the pickups. I once owned an Epiphone Custom LP , it was quite good compared to the Gibson, better than all the copies,  but you could easily hear the shortfalls, even with Seymour Duncan pickups - remember these will make a good guitar sound great but make a cheap guitar sound rubbish - putting these on a cheap guitar is a waste of money - believe me i've done it myself!     " you can put lipstick on a pig - but it's still a pig...!!"    Remember you always get what you pay for, cheap guitars are good for starting out on but get a genuine Gibson  or  U.S.A. Fender and you will have a faithful friend for life     You can still buy an American Fender Stratocaster  used for £400 -£500 ( i have one), they were always designed for slick mass production as opposed to the Gibson LP, which are very expensive to manufacture, hence the high price tag, but are worth every penny, and are an investment which will always hold their value! Never use a soft gig bag - always carry out your guitar in a hard case, and change the strings at least every 6 months!

High String tension?
I have be honest, that is a load of garbage.
A Fender Strat WILL ALWAYS have a higher string tension than a normal Gibson/Epiphone if the same string gauges are used on both guitars.
The Strat has a 25.5 inch scale, while a Gibson has a 24.75inch scale.
The ONLY reason why you must have a high string tension on your Gibson is because of heavy gauge strings.
I play 25.5 inch scale guitars because Gibsons ARE TOO LOOSE.
Every time I play a Gibson set up with 9-42 gauge strings, it just feels far too slack.
To say a Gibson has a high string tension and is recommended only for experienced guitarists because of that is purely false information.


Tony Iommi in fact used to tune his SG about 10 cents above E standard. He only began to tune down after the accident with his fingers because he needed the reduced tension to compensate for the accident.
He was perfectly fine with normal tuning and the string tension prior to the accident.


"and the frets are so high a degree of skill is needed to stop the high 'E'  from slipping off the edge of the neck"

Again, incorrect.
Gibsons use 6130 fretwire as standard.....this in fact the lowest fretwire you can buy as far I know.
If you found the lowest fretwire in existence to be too high, I can only imagine the difficulty one would have with bigger sizes.
I use 6105 fretwire which is equal second tallest fretwire with 6100 (supplied from Dunlop) and to me it's still not high enough
I plan to use Dunlop 6000 fretwire for my next guitar.

Taller fretwire actually encourages superior technique (hence my desire for Dunlop 6000 fretwire).
It forces you to use a lighter touch and some people (including myself) feel it assists in vibrato, particularly the wide vibrato technique.

My opinion?

Gibson's quality control as of late has been pretty sub standard.
I've played a lot of examples of 5000 dollar Gibsons with poor fretwork.
They partly addressed this by introducing the PLEK fret set up system with the Les Paul 2008 Standard(a machine which determines fretboard radius, fret height, handles fret dressing and all to extreme precision, beyond that of most humans). At the least I can say that means all the 2008 standards will have exceptionally good fretwork, since the human element is taken out of the equation.
They also have a chambered body, to reduce weight.

But the biggest beef i have with Gibson.......their pricing.

A Les Paul 2008 Standard costs 5000 AUD in Australia.

I can quite literally get myself a custom made guitar TO MY EXACT SPECS AND LIKING for about 1000 AUD less.
When you have to pay so much for a stock off the shelf Gibson, it's incredibly poor value for money.
Go on pretty much any guitar forum board (except Gibson forum boards with their Gibson fanboys) and it's pretty much established most people believe all Gibson guitars should cost at least 20-30 per cent less to be truly worth what you pay for.
And even guys in the US who don't have to pay the extra on top for shipping costs, agree Gibson has been over priced for quite a long time.

Want a great guitar that is exceptional value for money?

A Schecter C1- Classic.
Depending on where you in the world, they are as much as 50 per cent to 65 per cent less than a Gibson Les Paul Standard

They come already equipped with Seymour Duncan pickups, including the JB bridge pickup, which I have sworn by ever since I started using them in 2005. This pretty much already means you wont have to change them out for something else, since they are already high quality aftermarket style USA made pickups anyway.

Hordes of Schecter C1-Classic owners sold their Gibson Les Pauls because the C1-Classic absolutely slayed their Les Pauls in terms of tone, playability and in many cases, quality too.

They also come with a 5 way pickup selector....something Les Pauls don't have.
This means the Schecter can not only do Humbucking tones, but also single coil tones, so it's much more versatile than the Les Paul.
A C1-Classic can go from ultra clean reggae tones to Ultra high gain distorted tones.


By the time you upgraded the pickups and electronics of a upper range Epiphone  to match a C1-Classic, the C1 comes out cheaper.
And also the fact that it's far more affordable than the Gibson to boot.

HughesJB4 wrote: Man Erg wrote: Has anybody ever used one of these? Marshall Guv'nor I used to gig using my Misicman Stingray 1 active through a Fender Switcher amp. It sounded as though it added another 50 watts to the Switcher.The tone was fantastic.In conjuction with an MXR compressor pedal I could get limitless sustain without any degradation whatsoever. Err, a bit off topic don't you think?They are not bad pedals though, although personally I wouldn't buy one myself (I would much rather a Robert Keely Modified Ibanez Tube Scream TS-7 myself)I don't see how a pedal can sound as if it adds power to an amp.Adding more gain would in fact be doing the opposite...........decreasing headroom.Adding power increases headroom and thus you can get a cleaner sound before breakup.

The emphasis was on SOUNDED!

Right! Back on topic...off you go.I'll shut up

HughesJB4 wrote: Mr ProgFreak wrote: Check out the Line6 Variax too, if you have a chance. Compared to a Gibson Les Paul the Variax 300 is much more affordable ... depending on the Gibson model you're considering, you might even buy a Variax 300 and a POD X3 Live for the same price as the Gibson guitar alone. I would particularly recommend this combination for beginners, since it allows you to explore a huge variety of sounds. A good recommendation indeed. The most important thing about amp modeling devices (if one were to use a regular guitar with say, a Line 6 POD X3 Live for example) is that it can take ages to find the best tone possible. It can take months for many people to truly get the most of an amp modeling/multi effect unit and if you don't enjoy tweaking to that extent, stay well away (although arguably the same can be said about Mesa Boogie Rectifiers...many people need lots of time to dial in a great tone). But if you want heaps of different guitar tones, amp tones, many effects, a recording solution, a lightweight preamp that is heavy weight on features and are willing to put in the time, a Variax combined with a X3 Live is quite possibly one of the most versatile guitar set ups ever. And again, if you put in the time, you will be rewarded with great tone.

I don't think that it has to be difficult to use that setup. Of course you can get lost in the features of the X3, but you can always ignore the presets and just select an amp + cabinet. Configuring the Variax is really straight forward - you simply select a model by turning the knob. Then, if you've found a great combination of guitar, amp and cabinet, you can slowly proceed with other effects - but here I've found that less is often more. But it's surely nice to have all those effects at your disposal.

In Germany the prices are like this (from the top of my head):

Variax 300: 550€
Variax 600: 750€
Variax 700: 1300€

POD X3 Live: 450€

Epiphone Les Paul: 500-800€
Gibson Les Paul Special: 1000-1200€
Gibson Les Paul Standard: 1500-1800€

So, for the price of an Epiphone Les Paul you can also get a Variax 300 (which is all you need, if you don't care for the tremolo system - which should be the case if you're considering a Les Paul).