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Pussy Galore View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: YES? I think not
    Posted: November 07 2008 at 16:59

Though they were recorded before I was born, I've great admiration for the musical inventiveness that Yes displayed in their first five records. For that reason, I've investigated the band's history and have learnt about the remarkable drive, determination, and sheer musical genius of the band's chief architect and founder, Jon Anderson.

So it is very sad to learn how, as the band approached its 40th anniversary (and Jon developed health problems that prevented him from touring to celebrate that anniversary), Messrs. Howe, Squire and White   made the decision not to wait for Jon to recover from his illness, but replaced him, instead, with a karaoke-singing-croissant -
all without so much as bothering to inquire  about  Jon's  health,  much  less  consult  with  him  about their  plans to tour without him!

Interestingly, in recent interviews, Howe and Squire have shed considerable light as to how they undertook the decision to tour without Jon. In one interview, for example, Squire has commented as to why Jon was not consulted on that decision by saying: "
I didn't tell him personally…Our manager to  a  degree  was  dealing  with the politics of it, which, at the time, seemed the most appropriate thing.”

In other interviews, Howe has explained, variously, that they chose to replace Jon with Benoit David, a singer with a Canadian Yes cover band, simply because  "we felt that he was so like Jon", and
"we were certainly looking for a singer who had a similar sort of sound and approach as Jon, and that's what happened with Benoit, we had someone who was remarkably similar in tone and texture.”

In yet another interview, Howe slams as “nonsense” a statement that appeared on Jon’s website, in which Jon indicated that he felt "disappointed and disrespected" that his band mates had not so much as had a personal conversation with him about their plans to tour without him. However, Howe's assertion that Jon's statement is "nonsense" is flatly discredited by Squire’s statement above, in which he categorically confirms that Jon’s statement is absolutely accurate.

Thus, the sheer disrespect that they have shown towards the man whose creative energy and vision has been the guiding light behind the band's entire history, simply reflects the extent to which Squire and Howe, in particular,  put their  own  monetary  interests  ahead   of   the   band's musical  and  personal
integrity.

Simply put, it is very clear that Squire and Howe's decision to  tour without Jon is motivated by nothing more than sheer greed, monstrous  unkindness, and utter stupidity!

Yuuuuuuuuuuuck!!!!




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2008 at 17:36
I don't know, Pussy Galore (and welcome by the way).  Just because different people in the same band have a different assessment of the same situation doesn't count as discreditably.

Besides, as much I think Anderson should be touring with Yes (and not someone else touring with "In The Present"), it gives the band (or 3/5 of it) an opportunity to play songs Jon Anderson and Rick Wakeman wouldn't do.

Jon Anderson does seem positive about the future, however.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2008 at 17:41
hahahha.. that band is just like PA's... a big f'ing soap opera. 

and second the welcome...  don't mind if I just call you Pussy...  we are an informal group  here. 

just waiting for you to have a discussion with our resident Jazz-Rock expert.. that would be priceless.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2008 at 17:46
Technically they shouldn't have been called Yes since Peter Banks got fired from the band.  Wink
 
While I do think Jon Anderson was the heart and soul of the band for their classic period and for much of their later albums, remember that for awhile, there was Trevor Horn and then Trevor Rabin, who, for good or bad, also left their mark on the band.  Yes has always been about the group and never really about individuals. They've had so many lineup changes, how could it be otherwise.  And, they're not touring as Yes, as much as they have a right to.  That says something about Squire and Howe, that may not be as negative as you say. 
I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2008 at 18:18
Welcome to PA, Pussy GaloreSmile
 
I understand your point, the long time friendship that should not be broken, taking care of each other but we should understand like everything else YES is not only about making nice music, but also a business, a brand and needs to be run such as one....
 
There are bills for everybody to pay each month, children to raise.....grand children should i say nowLOL and a brand that need to be commercialized on a regular basis ( tours, new album, compilation box set, DVds, you name it) in order to stay relevant.
 
Now the internal politics between each member of the band , we really don't know!! Does Jon Anderson want really tour next year??/ maybe Squire and Howe didn't get this feeling! who knows!!
 
Also the funny thing is to see Howe and Squire together as if you remember they didn't seem to talk each other from The Ladder time to Magnification...just check the interaction between both of them on DVDs recorded at this time>
 
You mention greed....Hummmm1 i am not that sure of that as IN THE PRESENT won't fill up any stadium , not even arenas.If they get 3-5000 people, will be a great success imo!!..So for me , it's more about keeping the brand actual and relevant!
My 2 cents!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2008 at 18:57
I saw some footage of their very recent live gigs with Benoit......nope not for me, but......they were enjoying themselves and young Wakeman impressed. Check out Yesworld.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2008 at 20:43
Nothing like a rich person doing something just for the money. Maybe Howe & Squire wanted to play. Letting the management take care of "interpersonal" relations is not uncommon for bands that have been together for a while.
The tour was set, then Jon couldn't make it. Steve & Chris thought, hey we still wanna go. Let's get a new singer; we've got one of our drummers on board.
And hey eventually, bending to fans' reactions, they changed the name of the band to "In the Present" to distinguish it from the "real" Yes.
One member does not a band make, unless you're Robert Fripp.
And getting worked up over the world of revolving door membership bands will take up a lot of your time. Enjoy it for what it was supposed to be - many original & important band members that wanted to get out, hit a glitch, fixed it, let fans know some of the differences to expect because of the change, and then allow the fans to decide.
Of course, I could be wrong. It could be that Squire and Howe were planning to force people to buy tickets, eh.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2008 at 17:20
Originally posted by debrewguy debrewguy wrote:

Nothing like a rich person doing something just for the money. Maybe Howe & Squire wanted to play. Letting the management take care of "interpersonal" relations is not uncommon for bands that have been together for a while.
The tour was set, then Jon couldn't make it. Steve & Chris thought, hey we still wanna go. Let's get a new singer; we've got one of our drummers on board.
And hey eventually, bending to fans' reactions, they changed the name of the band to "In the Present" to distinguish it from the "real" Yes.
One member does not a band make, unless you're Robert Fripp.
And getting worked up over the world of revolving door membership bands will take up a lot of your time. Enjoy it for what it was supposed to be - many original & important band members that wanted to get out, hit a glitch, fixed it, let fans know some of the differences to expect because of the change, and then allow the fans to decide.
Of course, I could be wrong. It could be that Squire and Howe were planning to force people to buy tickets, eh.

I guess we´ll never know
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2008 at 17:32
Pussy G, as much as I support your passion, and definitely wish to see Jon perform, remember, this band has bickered for years about all sorts of musical and personnel issues (as have most that have lasted a long time, I suspect), and it's, IMO, a case of opportunity to tour, keep the brand prominent, etc. vs. the nebulous timetable of when Jon will be ready while Circa, the Squire/Hackett project, and Remedy all cool their collective heels. Each side has merit, I think.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2008 at 18:10
One might as well disagree with your assertion that Jon Anderson was the soul of the group. If you compare Jon's solo albums with Chris Squire's one and only solo album - which in my opinion is a masterpiece - you may find more of Yes in Squire's than in Jon's. The thick roar of his rickenbecker bass which he uses as if it was a rhythm guitar is the first thing that comes to my mind when I think of Yes. In my humble opinion, this idea becomes almost inescapable after hearing the Rhino remasters which did strengthen the bass guitar's contribution to the their music. The title "Anderson, Bruford, Wakeman & Howe" indicated strongly that Squire's absence meant the mentioned group was not Yes, but something else - even if it was just a name adapted to avoid legal complications... 

On each album  Howe's presence - most especially on Tales album - is so strong that sometimes you start to believe Howe is the main man. Wakeman's entrance with Fragile changes Yes so overwhelmingly, - and his absence, too, from Tales album for instance - that he might as well be the core of Yes, at least on the albums he contributed. After hearing Moraz's performance on Relayer - which is my favorite - I was so impressed that I had to find and listen to his solo albums - which are a disappointment as of yet; however he is also marvellous on Squire's solo album Fish Out Of Water...

So what I'm trying to say is that although Jon Anderson is one of the most imitated vocals in the history of progressive rock - and I honestly belive this is rightfully so - and that his voice and vision etc... contributed so much to whatever Yes was and is, other members' contribution to it might even be bigger. No one really can say. Same thing I said for ABWH; they named the band In The Present anyway; which could mean Yes members minus Anderson is not Yes.

Plus, Yes has always been changing personel for each album, and some line-ups re-grouped again for anther album or more. Only Jon Anderson was ever-present. Maybe it's not a crime that it's the other members who gathered to make an album without one of the members, who happens to be Jon this time.

Finding an Anderson clone is another matter, though. Even if they left him out, I wish they had found a completely different voice instead.

Regards to all.

Edited by meurglys0 - November 11 2008 at 18:15
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2008 at 18:24
Welcome! ...for the subject, even if I respect your fanboyism(girlism actually) which is not a bad thing at all, I'm not quite interested in "personal" matters of Yes as a band, of course helpful info/data is useful and I'm always welcome for it. But this time, it seems you want Chris and Steve look bad, and even if they were, they're human beings and make mistakes.

Of course, it has been something disrespectful, but not sure if ALL the "story" is there in the hyperlinks, there's surely something missing, anyways that's really not the point....

Oh, by the way, I disagree in that Jon was the "soul of the group". He may have apported quite a lot, but Chris Squire and Steve should be as much as credited as him, and maybe even more.

Just my 2 cents...

Edited by cacho - November 11 2008 at 18:25
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2008 at 03:08

Welcome, miss Galore (I'm the gentleman type of guy).

I think communication never was the best part of this band. Well, they're only human, and let's hope the air is being cleared again in a short time. Let's also hope for some good musical performances in the mean time!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2008 at 21:33
I have lost ALL respect for Chris Squire and Steve Howe as people. They are rotten to the core and disgust me.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2008 at 00:40
Originally posted by peskypesky peskypesky wrote:

I have lost ALL respect for Chris Squire and Steve Howe as people. They are rotten to the core and disgust me.


I'm presuming you're a close family friend, or married to one or both of them, to be so certain. You wouldn't be relying on media reports, would you?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2008 at 01:17
Are you guys (Hello Pussy!)  for real, you actually believe these guys adored each other for 40 years without the slightest spat, insult or row, who are you kidding?   Good morning reality. Imagine being married to 5 people , darn just one is hard enough. Plus these guys have egos that are beyong being "Close to the Edge " LOL, more like the apltly titled "Drama" . Who are we to criticize , Yes started out and thrived as a "Business" which explains a long series or rather poor albums . Unless you sleep with someone (and even then) , you never really know anyone , now do you?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2008 at 09:31
You must remember that Howe/Squire are well into their sixties now.They probably realise their performing life is nearing the end now.Anderson's illness has probably brought this more into focus.I hope Jon still keeps creating music - he doesn't necessarily need any other of the member's of Yes to still make good music.Perhaps his touring days are over now though???Although I still believe an occasional reunion with the group would seem possible.
I am not particularly interested in watching this new incarnation of the group however ( I have seen the group on numerous occations in the past).I realise however that there are still alot of people have not had the privilage to see Howe & Squire perform live - I would not personally want to deny anyone that - 2 of the most creative rock musicians the world has ever seen.It is possible that the younger elemens of this reincarnation will be inspire new creativeness in their future musical careers.All I hope is that this tour's main concerns are commercial (i.e. overcoming financial commitment already made - compensation that would have to be made for cancelling the tour).
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2008 at 11:19

I wonder what Trevor Horn is up do these days?   He'd be the best temporary replacement, although that might have infuriated Anderson further.

This was handled very badly by Yes management, Howe, and/or Squire.   I missed Anderson's message on his website that reportedly was quite nasty regarding this snub.
 
Good luck to Jon and I hope he gets well soon and is able to return to reform a proper Yes ensemble.  
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2008 at 04:48
Don't regret guys!I think Jon will come back,but the 40th anniversary have to be celebrated.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2008 at 12:51
Good grief.  On the Fox website there's a video of Chris and Alan with the replacement singer performing "Owner of a Lonely Heart" on something called the Huckabee show.  No keys,either.  It's embarrassing, to say the least and far, far beneath their stature.  I couldn't even get through half of it.  The horror.  The horror...   Censored
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2008 at 18:23
We don't need yet another htread opned on this topic. Since the "discussion" has moved to the new thread, I'm closing this one.
 
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