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TGM: Orb
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 21 2007
Location: n/a
Status: Offline
Points: 8052
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Posted: November 16 2008 at 06:16 |
Bern, I'll hunt you down and take that Peter Hammill card to its rightful place. Be warned. @the Moonchild argument:
Certif1ed's review wrote:
But, the thing that really stood out to me from one particular essay was this simple phrase; "'Moonchild' is perhaps one of the
more remarkable pieces ever conceived in the history of rock music.". The writer goes on to link the Moon and number 4 and
all kinds of stuff to do with modes, counterpoint, pedals, magical light and flashes of timbral light... "Moonchild" really is
both the best track on the album, and one of the most remarkable pieces
in rock - a fact that most people overlook, painfully missing the point
by describing it as "boring", "noodle" and using other similar terms
that would indicate a lack of patience, narrow tastes in music and,
well, simply not liking it, so writing it off as therefore a bad thing. Not so. And
so it is that I'm going to take this track offline and work on an
analysis to help you understand just why it is so spectacular.
Moon Child - one of the most remarkable pieces in rock music Cue up the start of the piece. Ready? Here
we have drifts of mellotron, and a repeating picked guitar figure,
which is soon joined by a short, repeating guitar figure that is
important. Listen carefully to it's soaring tones - those opening notes
are remarkably similar to "Au Clair de Lune" by Claude Debussy. Greg picks up on this quickly with the vocal
line - a two-part affair that picks up on this figure, appending an
answering phrase, and acquiring a light accompaniment comprising
bell-like cymbals, and a regular falling soft tom-tom pattern. This is
repeated, then the second part of the verse picks for an additional
answer. The solo guitar takes the 1st "theme" and plays with it, before
the second verse is presented with the ongoing light percussion. Little
tension is built - but the song does not demand it. This is not a
dramatic song, and that is part of its progressive nature - it is
painting, with striking lights and shades, a kind of watercolour-hued
portrait of the Moon Child that is non-linear, which
kind of pushes against the intrinsically linear nature of music, yet covers many angles; "Dancing
in the shallows of a river", "Dreaming in the shadow of the willow",
"Talking to the trees of the cobweb strange". None of this necessarily
describes a person, real or ficticious - to me, it describes the
effects of moonlight on earth - the reflection in the river or
fountain, the moonbeams "dancing" and "Waving silver wands", and the
interplay of the moon's light on flowers, cobwebs and the sun dial.
"Sailing on the wind in a milk white gown" and "Waiting for a smile
from a sun child" are self-
explanatory, and "Playing hide and seek with the ghosts of dawn"
clearly refers to clouds. So the music expresses the soul of these ideas - the subtle keyboard changes highlight this best. You'll
note that this is not standard song structure - there is a 3-part idea
that is repeated 3 times for this first section, which could be seen as
verse/chorus/instrumental x3, except that the "chorus" is in no way a
chorus, but an extension of the verse. Then
we have the instrumental section, which continues this expression - it
seems a bit pointless to map it all out, but the first section appears
to represent the rippling waters of the river - the willow, of course,
will be on the river bank, and the slightly sinister edge that the
music acquires could be expressing this. We
continue in the branches of the trees, "talking of the cobweb strange"
- 5:28 might be expressing this, with tiny strands of melodic runs that
pick up from each other. Just re-read the lyrics as this section plays
out - it's not too hard to make your own mind up about what's being
expressed. The music of this section
has an atonal feel to it - and some of the stylisations are strikingly
similar to music in "Pierrot Lunaire", by Arnold Schoenberg. Listen to
"Der Kranken Mond" - particularly the flute backing. An online
recording of the entire work may be found online - note also that there
are 4 sections of Pierrot directly concerned with the moon. The
interplay between the instrumentalists here is remarkable - all aiming
for an overall series of pictures, or, rather continual moving image,
with none taking centre stage, going into personal space every now and
again, then rejoining the conversation, using a predefined set of
ideas. This is not aimless noodle - this is carefully constructed. The
point at which it all comes back together (around 10:45) is masterly -
all parts drifting slowly towards each other, and the little major
chord on the guitar clearly showing the "smile from the sun child" -
all music from this point has this upbeat feel of morning approaching
and the darkness lifting. All of which serves to underline "Moon Child"'s
position in the album - as the penultimate piece, it provides the
necessary contrast from which to kick into the grand splendour of "The
Court of the Crimson King". Indeed, if you have your stereo at the
necessary volume to catch each and every tiny detail in "Moon Child",
the title track is like a mighty rush of wind, and somewhat
overwhelming. It's in this dynamic perspective that the true power of
this album may be experienced - and you probably won't get it listening
to compressed mp3s on your computer speakers or headphones. On a
half-decent stereo, this contrast will blow your socks off. On a decent
system, it's like hearing it properly for the first time - every time. |
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32536
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Posted: November 16 2008 at 07:19 |
What do you see?
The point being, that entire review of the last nine minutes of "Moonchild" is speculative interpretation at best.
And it's moot anyway- it doesn't matter what it suppose to represent. I don't want to listen to it.
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TGM: Orb
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 21 2007
Location: n/a
Status: Offline
Points: 8052
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Posted: November 16 2008 at 07:39 |
Epignosis wrote:

What do you see?
The point being, that entire review of the last nine minutes of "Moonchild" is speculative interpretation at best.
And it's moot anyway- it doesn't matter what it suppose to represent. I don't want to listen to it.
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Fair enough, but that interpretation is pretty convincing to me (and plausibly grounded in both the music and the lyrical lead-up), and having read that just helped me attach the right imagery to enjoy the music properly and approach it from the right angle. I'm one of those people who really enjoys directed and evocative improvisations, so I love it.
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32536
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Posted: November 16 2008 at 13:04 |
TGM: Orb wrote:
Epignosis wrote:

What do you see?
The point being, that entire review of the last nine minutes of "Moonchild" is speculative interpretation at best.
And it's moot anyway- it doesn't matter what it suppose to represent. I don't want to listen to it.
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Fair enough, but that interpretation is pretty convincing to me (and plausibly grounded in both the music and the lyrical lead-up), and having read that just helped me attach the right imagery to enjoy the music properly and approach it from the right angle.
I'm one of those people who really enjoys directed and evocative improvisations, so I love it.
| You still didn't tell me what you see.
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MovingPictures07
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Beasty Heart
Status: Offline
Points: 32181
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Posted: November 16 2008 at 13:05 |
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32536
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Posted: November 16 2008 at 14:01 |
MovingPictures07 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
TGM: Orb wrote:
Epignosis wrote:

What do you see?
The point being, that entire review of the last nine minutes of "Moonchild" is speculative interpretation at best.
And it's moot anyway- it doesn't matter what it suppose to represent. I don't want to listen to it.
|
Fair enough, but that interpretation is pretty convincing to me (and plausibly grounded in both the music and the lyrical lead-up), and having read that just helped me attach the right imagery to enjoy the music properly and approach it from the right angle.
I'm one of those people who really enjoys directed and evocative improvisations, so I love it.
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You still didn't tell me what you see. 
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Is it possible to actually not see anything concrete?
| I think you meant to post in the Questions thread.
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TGM: Orb
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 21 2007
Location: n/a
Status: Offline
Points: 8052
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Posted: November 16 2008 at 15:25 |
Epignosis wrote:
You still didn't tell me what you see. 
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Not a lot, to be honest... some sort of vaguely goatish figure... but, y'know, with the title and context, I might be able to extrapolate a meaning, or not...
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32536
|
Posted: November 16 2008 at 15:56 |
TGM: Orb wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
You still didn't tell me what you see. 
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Not a lot, to be honest... some sort of vaguely goatish figure... but, y'know, with the title and context, I might be able to extrapolate a meaning, or not...
| I see two men with guns flanking a double-headed wizard.
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horsewithteeth11
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 24598
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Posted: November 16 2008 at 17:04 |
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32536
|
Posted: November 16 2008 at 17:32 |
Read your review David. I agree 100%
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horsewithteeth11
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 24598
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Posted: November 16 2008 at 17:33 |
Epignosis wrote:
Read your review David. I agree 100%
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Thanks, Rob!
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horsewithteeth11
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 24598
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Posted: November 16 2008 at 17:36 |
Go ahead and give me my cards. I'll be back after some dinner.
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32536
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Posted: November 16 2008 at 17:38 |
birdwithteeth11, you got:
 
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horsewithteeth11
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 24598
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Posted: November 16 2008 at 18:43 |
Not too bad.
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MovingPictures07
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Beasty Heart
Status: Offline
Points: 32181
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Posted: November 16 2008 at 21:39 |
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moreitsythanyou
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: April 23 2006
Location: NYC
Status: Offline
Points: 11682
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Posted: November 16 2008 at 21:42 |
Still open for trades, peeps.
ELP - Jerusalem Genesis - I Know What I Like Rush - Lessons Yes - No Experience Required..., Time and a Word and Rick Wakeman
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 <font color=white>butts, lol[/COLOR]
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32536
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Posted: November 16 2008 at 21:59 |
Actually, itsy...I might be willing to trade with you.
But first:
http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=189548
For some reason, it's not on the front page yet.
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32536
|
Posted: November 16 2008 at 22:01 |
My holdings:
The
Revealing Science of God |
Bringing it Back |
Clear Days |
Apercu |
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Death of Mother Nature Suite |
Vermicide |
At the End of the Day |
Chris Squire |
Robby Steinhardt |
To Be Over |
The Sound of Muzak |
Mike Rutherford |
My Ashes |
On the Other Side |
Angels Have Fallen |
Stay Out of Trouble |
Tarkus |
Mellotron Scratch |
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32536
|
Posted: November 16 2008 at 22:07 |
MovingPictures07, you got:
  
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32536
|
Posted: November 16 2008 at 22:09 |
Epignosis, you got:
 
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