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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2008 at 06:16
Bern, I'll hunt you down and take that Peter Hammill card to its rightful place. Be warned.

@the Moonchild argument:

Originally posted by Certif1ed's review Certif1ed's review wrote:


But, the thing that really stood out to me from one particular essay was this simple phrase; "'Moonchild' is perhaps one of the more remarkable pieces ever conceived in the history of rock music.". The writer goes on to link the Moon and number 4 and all kinds of stuff to do with modes, counterpoint, pedals, magical light and flashes of timbral light...

"Moonchild" really is both the best track on the album, and one of the most remarkable pieces in rock - a fact that most people overlook, painfully missing the point by describing it as "boring", "noodle" and using other similar terms that would indicate a lack of patience, narrow tastes in music and, well, simply not liking it, so writing it off as therefore a bad thing.

Not so.

And so it is that I'm going to take this track offline and work on an analysis to help you understand just why it is so spectacular.

Moon Child - one of the most remarkable pieces in rock music

Cue up the start of the piece. Ready?

Here we have drifts of mellotron, and a repeating picked guitar figure, which is soon joined by a short, repeating guitar figure that is important. Listen carefully to it's soaring tones - those opening notes are remarkably similar to "Au Clair de Lune" by Claude Debussy.

Greg picks up on this quickly with the vocal line - a two-part affair that picks up on this figure, appending an answering phrase, and acquiring a light accompaniment comprising bell-like cymbals, and a regular falling soft tom-tom pattern. This is repeated, then the second part of the verse picks for an additional answer. The solo guitar takes the 1st "theme" and plays with it, before the second verse is presented with the ongoing light percussion.

Little tension is built - but the song does not demand it. This is not a dramatic song, and that is part of its progressive nature - it is painting, with striking lights and shades, a kind of watercolour-hued portrait of the Moon Child that is non-linear, which kind of pushes against the intrinsically linear nature of music, yet covers many angles;

"Dancing in the shallows of a river", "Dreaming in the shadow of the willow", "Talking to the trees of the cobweb strange". None of this necessarily describes a person, real or ficticious - to me, it describes the effects of moonlight on earth - the reflection in the river or fountain, the moonbeams "dancing" and "Waving silver wands", and the interplay of the moon's light on flowers, cobwebs and the sun dial. "Sailing on the wind in a milk white gown" and "Waiting for a smile from a sun child" are self- explanatory, and "Playing hide and seek with the ghosts of dawn" clearly refers to clouds.

So the music expresses the soul of these ideas - the subtle keyboard changes highlight this best.

You'll note that this is not standard song structure - there is a 3-part idea that is repeated 3 times for this first section, which could be seen as verse/chorus/instrumental x3, except that the "chorus" is in no way a chorus, but an extension of the verse.

Then we have the instrumental section, which continues this expression - it seems a bit pointless to map it all out, but the first section appears to represent the rippling waters of the river - the willow, of course, will be on the river bank, and the slightly sinister edge that the music acquires could be expressing this.

We continue in the branches of the trees, "talking of the cobweb strange" - 5:28 might be expressing this, with tiny strands of melodic runs that pick up from each other. Just re-read the lyrics as this section plays out - it's not too hard to make your own mind up about what's being expressed.

The music of this section has an atonal feel to it - and some of the stylisations are strikingly similar to music in "Pierrot Lunaire", by Arnold Schoenberg. Listen to "Der Kranken Mond" - particularly the flute backing. An online recording of the entire work may be found online - note also that there are 4 sections of Pierrot directly concerned with the moon.

The interplay between the instrumentalists here is remarkable - all aiming for an overall series of pictures, or, rather continual moving image, with none taking centre stage, going into personal space every now and again, then rejoining the conversation, using a predefined set of ideas. This is not aimless noodle - this is carefully constructed. The point at which it all comes back together (around 10:45) is masterly - all parts drifting slowly towards each other, and the little major chord on the guitar clearly showing the "smile from the sun child" - all music from this point has this upbeat feel of morning approaching and the darkness lifting.

All of which serves to underline "Moon Child"'s position in the album - as the penultimate piece, it provides the necessary contrast from which to kick into the grand splendour of "The Court of the Crimson King". Indeed, if you have your stereo at the necessary volume to catch each and every tiny detail in "Moon Child", the title track is like a mighty rush of wind, and somewhat overwhelming. It's in this dynamic perspective that the true power of this album may be experienced - and you probably won't get it listening to compressed mp3s on your computer speakers or headphones. On a half-decent stereo, this contrast will blow your socks off. On a decent system, it's like hearing it properly for the first time - every time.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2008 at 07:19


What do you see?

The point being, that entire review of the last nine minutes of "Moonchild" is speculative interpretation at best.

And it's moot anyway- it doesn't matter what it suppose to represent.  I don't want to listen to it.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2008 at 07:39
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:



What do you see?

The point being, that entire review of the last nine minutes of "Moonchild" is speculative interpretation at best.

And it's moot anyway- it doesn't matter what it suppose to represent.  I don't want to listen to it.



Fair enough, but that interpretation is pretty convincing to me (and plausibly grounded in both the music and the lyrical lead-up), and having read that just helped me attach the right imagery to enjoy the music properly and approach it from the right angle.

I'm one of those people who really enjoys directed and evocative improvisations, so I love it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2008 at 13:04
Originally posted by TGM: Orb TGM: Orb wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:



What do you see?

The point being, that entire review of the last nine minutes of "Moonchild" is speculative interpretation at best.

And it's moot anyway- it doesn't matter what it suppose to represent.  I don't want to listen to it.



Fair enough, but that interpretation is pretty convincing to me (and plausibly grounded in both the music and the lyrical lead-up), and having read that just helped me attach the right imagery to enjoy the music properly and approach it from the right angle.

I'm one of those people who really enjoys directed and evocative improvisations, so I love it.


You still didn't tell me what you see.  LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2008 at 13:05
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by TGM: Orb TGM: Orb wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:



What do you see?

The point being, that entire review of the last nine minutes of "Moonchild" is speculative interpretation at best.

And it's moot anyway- it doesn't matter what it suppose to represent.  I don't want to listen to it.



Fair enough, but that interpretation is pretty convincing to me (and plausibly grounded in both the music and the lyrical lead-up), and having read that just helped me attach the right imagery to enjoy the music properly and approach it from the right angle.

I'm one of those people who really enjoys directed and evocative improvisations, so I love it.


You still didn't tell me what you see.  LOL


Is it possible to actually not see anything concrete?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2008 at 14:01
Originally posted by MovingPictures07 MovingPictures07 wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by TGM: Orb TGM: Orb wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:



What do you see?

The point being, that entire review of the last nine minutes of "Moonchild" is speculative interpretation at best.

And it's moot anyway- it doesn't matter what it suppose to represent.  I don't want to listen to it.



Fair enough, but that interpretation is pretty convincing to me (and plausibly grounded in both the music and the lyrical lead-up), and having read that just helped me attach the right imagery to enjoy the music properly and approach it from the right angle.

I'm one of those people who really enjoys directed and evocative improvisations, so I love it.


You still didn't tell me what you see.  LOL


Is it possible to actually not see anything concrete?


I think you meant to post in the Questions thread.  Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2008 at 15:25
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:


You still didn't tell me what you see.  LOL


Not a lot, to be honest... some sort of vaguely goatish figure... but, y'know, with the title and context, I might be able to extrapolate a meaning, or not...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2008 at 15:56
Originally posted by TGM: Orb TGM: Orb wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:


You still didn't tell me what you see.  LOL


Not a lot, to be honest... some sort of vaguely goatish figure... but, y'know, with the title and context, I might be able to extrapolate a meaning, or not...


I see two men with guns flanking a double-headed wizard.  Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2008 at 17:04
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2008 at 17:32
Read your review David.  I agree 100%
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2008 at 17:33
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Read your review David.  I agree 100%

Thanks, Rob!Big smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2008 at 17:36
Go ahead and give me my cards. I'll be back after some dinner.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2008 at 17:38
birdwithteeth11, you got:


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2008 at 18:43
Not too bad.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2008 at 21:39
http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=189544
http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=189547

Felt like it was time to weigh in on two of the most important albums of my life.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2008 at 21:42
Still open for trades, peeps.

ELP - Jerusalem
Genesis - I Know What I Like
Rush - Lessons
Yes - No Experience Required..., Time and a Word
and Rick Wakeman
<font color=white>butts, lol[/COLOR]

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2008 at 21:59
Actually, itsy...I might be willing to trade with you.

But first:

http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=189548

For some reason, it's not on the front page yet.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2008 at 22:01
My holdings:

The Revealing Science of God
Bringing it Back
Clear Days
Apercu

Death of Mother Nature Suite
Vermicide
At the End of the Day
Chris Squire
Robby Steinhardt
To Be Over
The Sound of Muzak
Mike Rutherford
My Ashes
On the Other Side
Angels Have Fallen
Stay Out of Trouble
Tarkus
Mellotron Scratch
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2008 at 22:07
MovingPictures07, you got:

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2008 at 22:09
Epignosis, you got:


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