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The Pessimist View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2008 at 17:31
Originally posted by Doomcifer Doomcifer wrote:

Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

Some of those 5 stars  would've been better as 4 and a half stars, if there had been such a possibility to choose from.


I agree.  It would be better if the rating system was on a 10-star system.  I see tons of reviews where people will preface the review with a "half star" rating.

Opinions vary.


Yeah, but wouldn't the 10 star rating also be split into halves? I think we should keep it as a 5 star, but allow half stars. That way, if people try and give an album, for argument's sake, a 4.25 rating, then they'll know they're being slightly ridiculous. It's all psychological.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2008 at 17:21
Giving 5 stars is HIGHLY subjective anyways...

there are a number of things that might be happening, i.e. someone rating his favourite albums only (or mostly)
I can't see anything bad with 5-star rating, and the pop-up message of PA does not keep ME from rating highly as long as I believe this album is ESSENTIAL or I enjoy it to a HUGE degree...
Even if I believe that it is worth of 4.51 stars, I 'll give it a five.

Others believe that nothing is perfect, so they give 4 stars

IT'S ALL ABOUT PERSONAL PERCEPTION Tongue
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2008 at 16:34
Occasionally I check out some ratings and their owners and you notice strange things in some cases.
I once saw a person doing 6 ratings of which 2 were 5 star ratings and 4 were 1 star ratings. Objectively spoken there  wasn't too much class difference between the 6 albums but apparently this person thought he was funny doing nonsense like this. And he didn't review any of them, the coward.
Point is that jokers like this ruin the seriousness of our site (and can ruin ratingaverages !). I think we should look after things like this and ban them off the site. After all Bob is correcting reviewers too if they do a lousy job and so he should !  So why not ratinggivers who do things that make no sense ?
In this case it was also a person who never visited our site again, not for ratings, not for reviews. So this person was just a passer by obviously not taking the site very serious.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2008 at 14:49
Originally posted by Henry Plainview Henry Plainview wrote:

Originally posted by TGM: Orb TGM: Orb wrote:


If someone knows why I think CTTE is a 5 star album and Fragile only a 4 star album, they might appreciate it in a new light. I see reviews as an effort to show why you like an album... sometimes that view helps me understand something properly for the first time. A couple of good reviews on big albums have changed my response to said albums. Alternatively, it can just be interesting and useful to look at people's tastes... if I know a guy likes Court and ELP, but isn't incredibly keen on Moonmadness, his more obscure interests might be very interesting to me.
But can you really add any new thoughts when it has been reviewed 450 times before?


Probably.
Half those reviews are probably just 'wowza' or 'what can I add to all these great reviews?', and I'm probably the only person who listens to said album exactly like I do, no matter how popular it is.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2008 at 11:56
Originally posted by TGM: Orb TGM: Orb wrote:


If someone knows why I think CTTE is a 5 star album and Fragile only a 4 star album, they might appreciate it in a new light. I see reviews as an effort to show why you like an album... sometimes that view helps me understand something properly for the first time. A couple of good reviews on big albums have changed my response to said albums. Alternatively, it can just be interesting and useful to look at people's tastes... if I know a guy likes Court and ELP, but isn't incredibly keen on Moonmadness, his more obscure interests might be very interesting to me.
But can you really add any new thoughts when it has been reviewed 450 times before?
 
Although you are correct, using more popular albums as a borometer of obscure albums does help. But that's what ratings only is for. ;-)
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

PS: Like Ivàn, I don't think two stars is a bad rating either. It just means that it's for those who like the band and want more than the essentials or the very good albums from them.
I think taking the star descriptions a bit literally makes it difficult to rate albums, although I see why they are there. For example, I quite like Concentration Face/Homeboy by Hella, but you thought it was noise. Fair enough, I guess I can't really recommend it to prog fans at large. So what are we elitists to do? John Zorn cannot be rated by the standards of CTTE.
Originally posted by Easy Livin Easy Livin wrote:

Originally posted by Henry Plainview Henry Plainview wrote:

if the powers that be think you suck and don't give you COLLABORATOR PRIVILEGES, screw them, they just don't appreciate your genius. ;-)
 
Thanks for kind words and support, it makes it all worthwhile.Confused
 
We don't actually think any members "suck", and we're always open to recommendations for Prog Reviewer status. Collaborator/Special Collabarator status is given to those who collaborate in developing the site in some way. A bit radical, but that's just how we do it.
Joking, EL, I was smothering my post in winks. You guys really need to lighten up about your position on the site. ;-)
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2008 at 11:11
Too many 5 stars review used to be a problem, but I think the problem has been under control for a few years now.... and like the opening post, thiswarning about putting 5 stars too often is still effective on me.
 
I try to reserve 5 stars to roughly 5% of my reviews -  one out of 20 - which is not unreasonable.
 
 
But this issue is still under waqtch from our members, because it's so tempting for some to skew tour rating system. But aover the years, I'd say that PA's ratings are getting more trustworthy: it used to be that I wouldn't pay attention, preferring GNOSIS2000 ratings (I still do), but PA is now all right.
 
 
 
PS: Like Ivàn, I don't think two stars is a bad rating either. It just means that it's for those who like the band and want more than the essentials or the very good albums from them.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2008 at 08:55
I wrote in the past that I only review albums I like very much (meaning for me - at least 4 stars). I don't try to be a musical critic. I find I have no time to bother on albums I dislike so I don't write reviews of those. I rarely write reviews anyway cause I'm lazy and many times I don't think I have something to add to the 300 reviewed an album before I did it. I disagree with many of the reviews I read but then, probably, others disagree with mine. So I guess if you read the review and get a good idea why it was rated so then you should respect that writer and his rating.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2008 at 20:49
I think we should start a separate thread rating the "one star / five star" threads that pop up way too often.
Maybe we should limit ourselves and  only rate albums from two to four ? Or after a 2-4 (for you canucks out there , ehWink)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2008 at 16:20
My thoughts:

1. There are some albums which simply shout 5 stars to me. Close To The Edge, Thick As A Brick, Pawn Hearts, H To He..., Les Porches, Ys, ELP, Chameleon In The Shadow Of The Night, Islands... putting an arbitrary quota on these because you think there could only be 10 or 12 albums of that standard seems silly to me.
2. I fear I am a bit generous with 5 star ratings, particularly on a couple of borderline/flawed/only-personal masterpieces, but then I'm probably generous across the board. I wish I could be a bit stingier, but that's just not the way I end up thinking about music and generally when I go to harshen my marks, I can't find much I'd want to change. I figure the reader can look at my general ratings and check the review's pitch if he's really concerned about my rating.
3.
Quote I really do not see the point of writing a 5 star review for anything in the top 50, much less the top 20, but that's just me. Do people really need to know that you think CTTE is a 5 star album, while Fragile is merely 4? Will it change their decision or opinion?


If someone knows why I think CTTE is a 5 star album and Fragile only a 4 star album, they might appreciate it in a new light. I see reviews as an effort to show why you like an album... sometimes that view helps me understand something properly for the first time. A couple of good reviews on big albums have changed my response to said albums. Alternatively, it can just be interesting and useful to look at people's tastes... if I know a guy likes Court and ELP, but isn't incredibly keen on Moonmadness, his more obscure interests might be very interesting to me.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2008 at 14:36
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Last week there was a thread talking about too many 1 star review

Now there are too many 5 stars reviews.

Must we limit ourselves to 3 and 4 (many people think 2 stars is offensive, read the scandal about my 2 star eating to Opeth.

An honest person must give the exact rating he believes an album deserves, no matter if i's 5 or 1.
 
Iván


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2008 at 14:32

Last week there was a thread talking about too many 1 star review

Now there are too many 5 stars reviews.

Must we limit ourselves to 3 and 4 (many people think 2 stars is offensive, read the scandal about my 2 star eating to Opeth.

An honest person must give the exact rating he believes an album deserves, no matter if i's 5 or 1.
 
Iván
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2008 at 14:21
Originally posted by Henry Plainview Henry Plainview wrote:

if the powers that be think you suck and don't give you COLLABORATOR PRIVILEGES, screw them, they just don't appreciate your genius. ;-)
 
Thanks for kind words and support, it makes it all worthwhile.Confused
 
We don't actually think any members "suck", and we're always open to recommendations for Prog Reviewer status. Collaborator/Special Collabarator status is given to those who collaborate in developing the site in some way. A bit radical, but that's just how we do it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2008 at 14:13
When I started reviewing, I determined that I would only give 10 albums 5*, and I had already identified these.

However, I will have to break this since I have discovered the band IQ and one or two other albums by bands  I'd not heard before, plus Mostly Autumn released Glass Shadows, but I will not  give 5* lightly.

There are FAR too many 5* reviews IMO.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2008 at 14:04
Originally posted by Henry Plainview Henry Plainview wrote:

Originally posted by King By-Tor King By-Tor wrote:

If I give an album 5 stars then it means that I believe that it is an essential album and a masterpiece work from the band. Simple.

Originally posted by Henry Plainview Henry Plainview wrote:

I'm too lazy to write reviews, but I think the whole "There are too many 5 stars!" vs "You can only give 5 stars to CTTE and TAAB!" is kind of annoying and irrelevan

very true. There's a lot of albums which deserve a 5 star rating. Although I'll admit that most of the 5-stars that I've given out have been to albums already considered Masterpieces.
Hahaha, wow, I just realized what a huge error I made in my post. It should have been "5 stars for everyone!" vs "5 stars for CCTE!"
 
I really do not see the point of writing a 5 star review for anything in the top 50, much less the top 20, but that's just me. Do people really need to know that you think CTTE is a 5 star album, while Fragile is merely 4? Will it change their decision or opinion?


Being that I think that was aimed directly at me I'll just say that I'd rather write for an album that has ≥ 10 reviews, but that's not always the point. I like to write, as shown in my reviews, and if on one day I don't have a seldom reviewed album to write for then why not keep my skills sharp and write yet another review for a "classic" album? Sure, no one is going to read it, but why not add my 2 cents. Although I think being someone who doesn't write reviews you wouldn't really "get it". Honestly, a lot of the "classic" albums that I review are just self indulgence, which is why I left most of them this long.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2008 at 13:58
Originally posted by Henry Plainview Henry Plainview wrote:

I really do not see the point of writing a 5 star review for anything in the top 50, much less the top 20, but that's just me. Do people really need to know that you think CTTE is a 5 star album, while Fragile is merely 4? Will it change their decision or opinion?


There are those who, for reasons of their own, won't listen to anything remotely popular. A well-written review ought to encourage them to give a popular prog album a try. Moreover, new people come to this site on a daily basis - some of whom have come by a route that means they've not heard CTTE.

Fundamentally, though, a great review encourages me to go back to an album I know well and listen to it with fresh ears. Hard to see how that's a bad thing. My opinion of quite a few albums has been changed in such a manner.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2008 at 13:40
Originally posted by King By-Tor King By-Tor wrote:

If I give an album 5 stars then it means that I believe that it is an essential album and a masterpiece work from the band. Simple.

Originally posted by Henry Plainview Henry Plainview wrote:

I'm too lazy to write reviews, but I think the whole "There are too many 5 stars!" vs "You can only give 5 stars to CTTE and TAAB!" is kind of annoying and irrelevan

very true. There's a lot of albums which deserve a 5 star rating. Although I'll admit that most of the 5-stars that I've given out have been to albums already considered Masterpieces.
Hahaha, wow, I just realized what a huge error I made in my post. It should have been "5 stars for everyone!" vs "5 stars for CCTE!"
 
I really do not see the point of writing a 5 star review for anything in the top 50, much less the top 20, but that's just me. Do people really need to know that you think CTTE is a 5 star album, while Fragile is merely 4? Will it change their decision or opinion?


Edited by Henry Plainview - November 02 2008 at 13:45
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2008 at 13:29
'Too many five-star albums!' some cry. 'Far too many one-star albums!' say others. So if we listen to these voices we end up with a three-star system - far too crude to distinguish between albums.

And who says there are only a few masterpieces out there? Personally, I think there are hundreds. Which one of us is right? Isn't it a matter of opinion?

Finally, there are plenty of people who only review their favourite albums. Do you expect them to be given fewer than five stars?

As others have said, in the end it is the review that counts.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2008 at 12:45
If I give an album 5 stars then it means that I believe that it is an essential album and a masterpiece work from the band. Simple.

Originally posted by Henry Plainview Henry Plainview wrote:

I'm too lazy to write reviews, but I think the whole "There are too many 5 stars!" vs "You can only give 5 stars to CTTE and TAAB!" is kind of annoying and irrelevan

very true. There's a lot of albums which deserve a 5 star rating. Although I'll admit that most of the 5-stars that I've given out have been to albums already considered Masterpieces.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2008 at 12:34
Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

Some of those 5 stars  would've been better as 4 and a half stars, if there had been such a possibility to choose from.


I agree.  It would be better if the rating system was on a 10-star system.  I see tons of reviews where people will preface the review with a "half star" rating.

Opinions vary.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2008 at 12:29
Personally, I would restrict my 5 star ratings to a handful of the very best prog albums in history, given that is the maximum rating that can be applied here. I would regard that as signifying that an album is as near to perfect (in  my opinion) as can be, and would want to distinguish those albums from the rest of the population.

4 stars would then be applied to albums I really enjoy very much, forming the next tier beneath the prog 'greats'. 3 stars would be applied to good, solid prog albums that I enjoy...I guess this would be the 'benchmark / standard' rating that I would apply to a good album.

2 stars would be awarded to what I consider sub-standard albums or albums I cannot get into / do not appreciate.

1 star would be reserved for rubbish, and hopefully would be used sparingly.

This is just how I see the ratings applying to my musical taste, and I'm not trying to be prescriptive about how they should be used generally. The most important thing is that there are lots and lots of good / great music out there to enjoy, and the ratings are a prerry good guide to the quality of most albums.
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