Similarities between songs (just coincidence?) - Progressive Rock Music Forum

Author

Message

Topic Search

Topic Options

Petrovsk Mizinski View Drop Down

Prog Reviewer

Joined: December 24 2007
Location: Ukraine
Status: Offline
Points: 25210

Posted: October 23 2008 at 22:38

jammun

Prog Reviewer

Joined: July 14 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3449

Posted: October 23 2008 at 22:46

Tapfret wrote:

jammun wrote:

Bitterblogger wrote:

BaldJean wrote:

Bitterblogger wrote:

jammun wrote:

Let's not forget the mother of all rip-offs. Led Zep's Stairway to Heaven (you've perhaps heard that song

) is a flat-out lift of Spirit's Taurus, from their first album. But then Zep was never shy about uncredited appropriation.

Neither were ELP:

The Barbarian (from Bartok)

The Only Way (from J.S. Bach)

Touch And Go (from Vaughan-Williams)

Mussorgsky and Prokofiev somehow got credited. Must be that Russian take-no-prisoners attitude.

Do right or you're

not to forget "Knife Edge", which is taken from Leoš Janáček's "Sinfonietta"

You're right; I had this nagging feeling I'd forgotten something. . .

Yep, ELP were pretty good at it themselves. I knew about The Barbarian, but didn't know about Knife Edge.

There is a huge difference between just outright stealing and adapting a symphonic movement and listing credit. ELP made their sources very clear in the album lit. LZ just played and sang old blues tunes word for word with little acknowledgment, or none if they didn't have to.(Willie dixon gets credit for a couple)

And.... another example of using a classical piece is the intro to Deep Purple's version of I'm So Glad which is derived from Rimsky-Korsakov's Scheherazade. I don't have a copy of Shades anymore, so I don't know if they gave credit. Anybody else know?

And veering back to the original prog vs prog scenario, Maxaphone has a keyboard passage on Al Mancato Compleanno Di una Faffalla that comes straight from ELP's Tarkus at the end of Stones of years. The song Fase has got numerous King Crimson passages, the most obvious come from Pictures of a City. It sounds more like an homage than immitation.

Unfortunately, no side credits were listed on ELP's first. The Barbarian was presented as an ELP original. I love ELP and it pains me to say this, but much of Emerson's career was based on the work of the Jacques Loussier Trio, who in the I think early-60's were doing a Bach/jazz mixture. I'm speculating here, but I'm guessing Emerson got the idea to mix classical/rock was entirely based on the Trio. Does not however detract from the quality of what he did with those ideas.

As I've said before, rock and jazz and blues musicians will shamelessly appropriate what has come before for all it is worth. Witness Dylan's more recent albums...

Edited by jammun - October 23 2008 at 22:48

AngleofRepose View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: November 01 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 173

Posted: October 23 2008 at 22:54

Metallica's Welcome Home start sounds similar to Strawb's Down by the Sea.

Tapfret

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin

Joined: August 12 2007
Location: Bryant, Wa
Status: Offline
Points: 8632

Posted: October 23 2008 at 23:47

jammun wrote:

Tapfret wrote:

jammun wrote:

Bitterblogger wrote:

BaldJean wrote:

Bitterblogger wrote:

jammun wrote:

Let's not forget the mother of all rip-offs. Led Zep's Stairway to Heaven (you've perhaps heard that song

) is a flat-out lift of Spirit's Taurus, from their first album. But then Zep was never shy about uncredited appropriation.

Neither were ELP:

The Barbarian (from Bartok)

The Only Way (from J.S. Bach)

Touch And Go (from Vaughan-Williams)

Mussorgsky and Prokofiev somehow got credited. Must be that Russian take-no-prisoners attitude.

Do right or you're

not to forget "Knife Edge", which is taken from Leoš Janáček's "Sinfonietta"

You're right; I had this nagging feeling I'd forgotten something. . .

Yep, ELP were pretty good at it themselves. I knew about The Barbarian, but didn't know about Knife Edge.

As I've said before, rock and jazz and blues musicians will shamelessly appropriate what has come before for all it is worth. Witness Dylan's more recent albums...

Bandcamp

jimmy_row

Forum Senior Member

Joined: July 11 2007
Location: Hibernation
Status: Offline
Points: 2601

Posted: October 23 2008 at 23:52

^ Is that a re-issue? They sort of had to give credit after the lawsuit; in similar fashion to Zeppelin II.

Abrawang

Forum Senior Member

Joined: November 29 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 112

Posted: October 23 2008 at 23:59

I always thought that the opening riff from Heart of the Sunrise was very similar to the instrumental section of 20th Century Schizoid.

Parts of Firth of Fifth always remind me of the Court of the Crimson King.

Yes snatched a few pieces of the Big Valley Suite in No Opportunity Necessary, No Experience Needed. The opening bars and the main instrumental melofy are direct lifts.

Pink Floyd were obviously influenced by Lennon's lyrics in Accross the Universe

"Sounds of laughter shades of life
are ringing through my open ears
exciting and inviting me "

Floyd from Echoes:

"Cloudless every day you fall
Upon my waking eyes
Inviting and inciting me to rise"

The main instrumental refrain in Echoes was later ripped off by Andrew Lloyd Webber in Phantom of the Opera.

I've noticed a couple of borrowings in Renaissance.

The instrumental in Can You Understand is a direct lift of a piece in Doctor Zhivago.

The opening of Scheherazade uses (intentionally I'm sure) the same into as the same-titled piece by Rinsky-Korsakov.

Casting doubt on all I have to say...

jimmy_row

Forum Senior Member

Joined: July 11 2007
Location: Hibernation
Status: Offline
Points: 2601

Posted: October 24 2008 at 00:04

Abrawang wrote:

The main instrumental refrain in Echoes was later ripped off by Andrew Lloyd Webber in Phantom of the Opera.

that's a good one to point out. I never thought of it before, but now I know why Phantom sounded so eerily familiar...

Tapfret

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin

Joined: August 12 2007
Location: Bryant, Wa
Status: Offline
Points: 8632

Posted: October 24 2008 at 02:51

jimmy_row wrote:

^ Is that a re-issue? They sort of had to give credit after the lawsuit; in similar fashion to Zeppelin II.

I am not aware of a lawsuit, do go on.

Bandcamp

omri

Forum Senior Member

Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Israel
Status: Offline
Points: 1250

Posted: October 26 2008 at 05:23

omri wrote:

Coolcosmos wrote:

Nobody except me noticed the very beggining of from the begining (ELP) and the very beggining of Roundabout are almost the same thing?

No ! I did not notice. I'm going to check it today !

Well, I did check it and you are right. There are few note of the beginings of the songs that are exactly the same. still, the ELP version (which was made later) moves on after a short time so even legaly it is too short to becalled palagiasm.

omri

Forum Senior Member

Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Israel
Status: Offline
Points: 1250

Posted: October 26 2008 at 05:26

Tapfret wrote:

jimmy_row wrote:

^ Is that a re-issue? They sort of had to give credit after the lawsuit; in similar fashion to Zeppelin II.

I am not aware of a lawsuit, do go on.

On my CD it is written that Bartok's wife was very unhappy both with not mentioning the source and the way it sounds. So, I'm not sure there was a lawsuit but definitely a claim for wrong use of the music.

omri

ignatiusrielly View Drop Down

Forum Groupie

Joined: September 12 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 55

Posted: October 29 2008 at 14:49

omri wrote:

Tapfret wrote:

jimmy_row wrote:

^ Is that a re-issue? They sort of had to give credit after the lawsuit; in similar fashion to Zeppelin II.

I am not aware of a lawsuit, do go on.

I once read in an interview with Greg Lake that Mrs. Bartok actually called them, I think they sorta made an agreement. He said "It was like having Mrs. Beethoven on the phone" or something like that. Apparently they had thought that Bartok's music was on public domain.

Four pails of water and a bagfull of salts

sean

Prog Reviewer

Joined: April 02 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1155

Posted: October 29 2008 at 15:11

I've found a lot of apparent rip-offs in Dream Theater songs.

Peruvian Skies-Have a Cigar by Pink Floyd (last year i was listening to have a cigar and my roommate, who is obsessed with DT, came in and said "that sounds familiar" and i explained that Pink Floyd wrote the song first.)

Part of Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence reminds me of "The Wall" by Kansas, though I can't remember which part, and I don't have the inspiration to go listen to it because I've got some Zappa going on and I can't have that interrupted.

Never Enough from Octavarium sounds like "Stockholme Syndrome" by Muse, and the intro of the title track of that album is from "Shine on You Crazy Diamond". Also, the way he says "trapped inside this octavarium" is taken from Tool's "Third Eye".

Prophets of War is from Muse's "Take a Bow"

Bj-1

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: June 04 2005
Location: No(r)Way
Status: Offline
Points: 31661

Posted: October 29 2008 at 15:16

Abrawang wrote:

I always thought that the opening riff from Heart of the Sunrise was very similar to the instrumental section of 20th Century Schizoid.

And the instrumental section of Schizoid Man is suspiciously similar to the original Mission Impossible theme.

RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on!

Anaon

Forum Senior Member

Joined: September 01 2005
Location: Kobaïa
Status: Offline
Points: 849

Posted: October 29 2008 at 15:58

The opening of Juggling 9 Dropping 10 by Enchant... Don't you think it sounds like a particular Rush song (I just forgot its name!)

My music: http://spleenarcana.bandcamp.com/
My blog: http://groovesandmemories.com/

ignatiusrielly View Drop Down

Forum Groupie

Joined: September 12 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 55

Posted: October 29 2008 at 16:24

In the song Animal bar from the RHCP album Stadium Arcadium, aprox at 4:49 there´s a solo that to my ears sounds way too similar to Steve Howe's opening solo on The revealing science of god. The notes are not the same (Frusciante´s no Howe, that´s for sure!!!) but the overall thing sounds too close (to my ears at least) to be a coincidence. Strangely enough, Tales is probably THE prog hater´s album, and I haven´t found any wise critic who has noticed the similarity. Is it just me? Tell me people, am I going insane???

Four pails of water and a bagfull of salts

omri

Forum Senior Member

Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Israel
Status: Offline
Points: 1250

Posted: November 06 2008 at 01:24

Yesterday I thought I discovered another one. I listened to Hatfield and the north the rotters club and there is a bonus track called "Oh, lens nature" and it is the music of Matching mole "Nan true's hole". Then I found out the former is an anagrama of the latter. I was quite proud of myself being able to recognize an anagrama in English.

omri

thought-house View Drop Down

Forum Newbie

Joined: June 19 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 10

Posted: November 06 2008 at 13:53

Peter Gabriel - Solsbury Hill & Asia - Only Time Will Tell?
I think these songs are somewhat similar.

Bitterblogger View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: November 04 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1719

Posted: November 06 2008 at 20:05

Another one that's really just the same song:

"Boundaries" by Jon Anderson and "Somehow, Someday" by Yes.

hawkcwg

Forum Senior Member

Joined: May 07 2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 381

Posted: November 07 2008 at 01:46

man i would be to lazy to do all of this but look at my bulletin that is a similarity about a Gong song and a Red Hot Chili Peppers song.

The Quiet One View Drop Down

Prog Reviewer

Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 15745

Posted: November 13 2008 at 12:47

omri wrote:

Coolcosmos wrote:

Nobody except me noticed the very beggining of from the begining (ELP) and the very beggining of Roundabout are almost the same thing?

No ! I did not notice. I'm going to check it today !

For more of the same, check out Spiral Architect by Black Sabbath, the beginning is very similar to From the Beginning by ELP.