Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Prog Music Lounge
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Similarities between songs (just coincidence?)
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedSimilarities between songs (just coincidence?)
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 56789 10>
Author
Message Reverse Sort Order
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
sean View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: April 02 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1155 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2008 at 15:11
I've found a lot of apparent rip-offs in Dream Theater songs.
Peruvian Skies-Have a Cigar by Pink Floyd (last year i was listening to have a cigar and my roommate, who is obsessed with DT, came in and said "that sounds familiar" and i explained that Pink Floyd wrote the song first.)
Part of Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence reminds me of "The Wall" by Kansas, though I can't remember which part, and I don't have the inspiration to go listen to it because I've got some Zappa going on and I can't have that interrupted.
Never Enough from Octavarium sounds like "Stockholme Syndrome" by Muse, and the intro of the title track of that album is from "Shine on You Crazy Diamond". Also, the way he says "trapped inside this octavarium" is taken from Tool's "Third Eye".
Prophets of War is from Muse's "Take a Bow"
 
 
 
Back to Top
ignatiusrielly View Drop Down
Forum Groupie
Forum Groupie
Avatar

Joined: September 12 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 55 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2008 at 14:49
Originally posted by omri omri wrote:

Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

Originally posted by jimmy_row jimmy_row wrote:

^ Is that a re-issue?  They sort of had to give credit after the lawsuit; in similar fashion to Zeppelin II.


I am not aware of a lawsuit, do go on.

 
On my CD it is written that Bartok's wife was very unhappy both with not mentioning the source and the way it sounds. So, I'm not sure there was a lawsuit but definitely a claim for wrong use of the music.

I once read in an interview with Greg Lake that Mrs. Bartok actually called them, I think they sorta made an agreement. He said "It was like having Mrs. Beethoven on the phone" or something like that. Apparently they had  thought that Bartok's music was on public domain.
Four pails of water and a bagfull of salts
Back to Top
omri View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Israel
Status: Offline
Points: 1250 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2008 at 05:26
Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

Originally posted by jimmy_row jimmy_row wrote:

^ Is that a re-issue?  They sort of had to give credit after the lawsuit; in similar fashion to Zeppelin II.


I am not aware of a lawsuit, do go on.

 
On my CD it is written that Bartok's wife was very unhappy both with not mentioning the source and the way it sounds. So, I'm not sure there was a lawsuit but definitely a claim for wrong use of the music.
omri
Back to Top
omri View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Israel
Status: Offline
Points: 1250 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2008 at 05:23
Originally posted by omri omri wrote:

Originally posted by Coolcosmos Coolcosmos wrote:

Nobody except me noticed the very beggining of from the begining (ELP) and the very beggining of Roundabout are almost the same thing?
 
No ! I did not notice. I'm going to check it today !
 
Well, I did check it and you are right. There are few note of the beginings of the songs that are exactly the same. still, the ELP version (which was made later) moves on after a short time so even legaly it is too short to becalled palagiasm.
omri
Back to Top
Tapfret View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin

Joined: August 12 2007
Location: Bryant, Wa
Status: Offline
Points: 8632 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 24 2008 at 02:51
Originally posted by jimmy_row jimmy_row wrote:

^ Is that a re-issue?  They sort of had to give credit after the lawsuit; in similar fashion to Zeppelin II.


I am not aware of a lawsuit, do go on.

Bandcamp
Back to Top
jimmy_row View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: July 11 2007
Location: Hibernation
Status: Offline
Points: 2601 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 24 2008 at 00:04
Originally posted by Abrawang Abrawang wrote:

 
 
The main instrumental refrain in Echoes was later ripped off by Andrew Lloyd Webber in Phantom of the Opera.
 
that's a good one to point out.  I never thought of it before, but now I know why Phantom sounded so eerily familiar...
Back to Top
Abrawang View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 29 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 112 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2008 at 23:59
I always thought that the opening riff from Heart of the Sunrise was very similar to the instrumental section of 20th Century Schizoid.
 
Parts of Firth of Fifth always remind me of the Court of the Crimson King.
 
Yes snatched a few pieces of the Big Valley Suite in No Opportunity Necessary, No Experience Needed.  The opening bars and the main instrumental melofy are direct lifts.
 
Pink Floyd were obviously influenced by Lennon's lyrics in Accross the Universe
"Sounds of laughter shades of life
are ringing through my open ears
exciting and inviting me "
 
Floyd from Echoes:
 
"Cloudless every day you fall
Upon my waking eyes
Inviting and inciting me to rise"
 
The main instrumental refrain in Echoes was later ripped off by Andrew Lloyd Webber in Phantom of the Opera.
 
I've noticed a couple of borrowings in Renaissance.
 
The instrumental in Can You Understand is a direct lift of a piece in Doctor Zhivago.
 
The opening of Scheherazade uses (intentionally I'm sure) the same into as the same-titled piece by Rinsky-Korsakov.
Casting doubt on all I have to say...
Back to Top
jimmy_row View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: July 11 2007
Location: Hibernation
Status: Offline
Points: 2601 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2008 at 23:52
^ Is that a re-issue?  They sort of had to give credit after the lawsuit; in similar fashion to Zeppelin II.
Back to Top
Tapfret View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin

Joined: August 12 2007
Location: Bryant, Wa
Status: Offline
Points: 8632 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2008 at 23:47
Originally posted by jammun jammun wrote:

Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

Originally posted by jammun jammun wrote:

Originally posted by Bitterblogger Bitterblogger wrote:

Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

Originally posted by Bitterblogger Bitterblogger wrote:

Originally posted by jammun jammun wrote:

Let's not forget the mother of all rip-offs.  Led Zep's Stairway to Heaven (you've perhaps heard that song LOL) is a flat-out lift of Spirit's Taurus, from their first album.  But then Zep was never shy about uncredited appropriation.
 
Neither were ELP:
The Barbarian (from Bartok)
The Only Way (from J.S. Bach)
Touch And Go (from Vaughan-Williams)
 
Mussorgsky and Prokofiev somehow got credited. Must be that Russian take-no-prisoners attitude. Angry 
Do right or you're Dead.

not to forget "Knife Edge", which is taken from Leoš Janáček's "Sinfonietta"

 
You're right; I had this nagging feeling I'd forgotten something. . .Ermm
 
Yep, ELP were pretty good at it themselves.  I knew about The Barbarian, but didn't know about Knife Edge. 
 


There is a huge difference between just outright stealing and adapting a symphonic movement and listing credit. ELP made their sources very clear in the album lit.  LZ just played and sang old blues tunes word for word with little acknowledgment, or none if they didn't have to.(Willie dixon gets credit for a couple)

And.... another example of using a classical piece is the intro to Deep Purple's version of I'm So Glad which is derived from Rimsky-Korsakov's Scheherazade.  I don't have a copy of Shades anymore, so I don't know if they gave credit.  Anybody else know?

And veering back to the original prog vs prog scenario, Maxaphone has a keyboard passage on   Al Mancato Compleanno Di una Faffalla that comes straight from ELP's Tarkus at the end of Stones of years. The song Fase has got numerous King Crimson passages, the most obvious come from Pictures of a City. It sounds more like an homage than immitation.
 
Unfortunately, no side credits were listed on ELP's first.  The Barbarian was presented as an ELP original.  I love ELP and it pains me to say this, but much of Emerson's career was based on the work of the Jacques Loussier Trio, who in the I think early-60's were doing a Bach/jazz mixture.  I'm speculating here, but I'm guessing Emerson got the idea to mix classical/rock was entirely based on the Trio.  Does not however detract from the quality of what he did with those ideas.
 
As I've said before, rock and jazz and blues musicians will shamelessly appropriate what has come before for all it is worth.  Witness Dylan's more recent albums...

Bandcamp
Back to Top
AngleofRepose View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: November 01 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 173 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2008 at 22:54
Metallica's Welcome Home start sounds similar to Strawb's Down by the Sea.
Back to Top
jammun View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: July 14 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3449 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2008 at 22:46
Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

Originally posted by jammun jammun wrote:

Originally posted by Bitterblogger Bitterblogger wrote:

Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

Originally posted by Bitterblogger Bitterblogger wrote:

Originally posted by jammun jammun wrote:

Let's not forget the mother of all rip-offs.  Led Zep's Stairway to Heaven (you've perhaps heard that song LOL) is a flat-out lift of Spirit's Taurus, from their first album.  But then Zep was never shy about uncredited appropriation.
 
Neither were ELP:
The Barbarian (from Bartok)
The Only Way (from J.S. Bach)
Touch And Go (from Vaughan-Williams)
 
Mussorgsky and Prokofiev somehow got credited. Must be that Russian take-no-prisoners attitude. Angry 
Do right or you're Dead.

not to forget "Knife Edge", which is taken from Leoš Janáček's "Sinfonietta"

 
You're right; I had this nagging feeling I'd forgotten something. . .Ermm
 
Yep, ELP were pretty good at it themselves.  I knew about The Barbarian, but didn't know about Knife Edge. 
 


There is a huge difference between just outright stealing and adapting a symphonic movement and listing credit. ELP made their sources very clear in the album lit.  LZ just played and sang old blues tunes word for word with little acknowledgment, or none if they didn't have to.(Willie dixon gets credit for a couple)

And.... another example of using a classical piece is the intro to Deep Purple's version of I'm So Glad which is derived from Rimsky-Korsakov's Scheherazade.  I don't have a copy of Shades anymore, so I don't know if they gave credit.  Anybody else know?

And veering back to the original prog vs prog scenario, Maxaphone has a keyboard passage on   Al Mancato Compleanno Di una Faffalla that comes straight from ELP's Tarkus at the end of Stones of years. The song Fase has got numerous King Crimson passages, the most obvious come from Pictures of a City. It sounds more like an homage than immitation.
 
Unfortunately, no side credits were listed on ELP's first.  The Barbarian was presented as an ELP original.  I love ELP and it pains me to say this, but much of Emerson's career was based on the work of the Jacques Loussier Trio, who in the I think early-60's were doing a Bach/jazz mixture.  I'm speculating here, but I'm guessing Emerson got the idea to mix classical/rock was entirely based on the Trio.  Does not however detract from the quality of what he did with those ideas.
 
As I've said before, rock and jazz and blues musicians will shamelessly appropriate what has come before for all it is worth.  Witness Dylan's more recent albums...


Edited by jammun - October 23 2008 at 22:48
Back to Top
Petrovsk Mizinski View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: December 24 2007
Location: Ukraine
Status: Offline
Points: 25210 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2008 at 22:38
^:agreed:
Back to Top
cobb2 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 25 2007
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 415 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2008 at 22:23
12 tones and 500 years of using them- things have got to repeat.
Back to Top
Bj-1 View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: June 04 2005
Location: No(r)Way
Status: Offline
Points: 31661 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2008 at 17:22
Mike Keneally's "Day of the Cow 2" burst into a humorously demented Enter Sandman (by Metallica)reminiscent riff halfway through the song. Definitely intentional, as Enter Sandman was recorded in 1991 and Day of the Cow in 1992.
 
 
RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on!
Back to Top
Bobby Corwen View Drop Down
Forum Newbie
Forum Newbie
Avatar

Joined: February 09 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 9 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2008 at 17:11
i don't know whether anyone else from the uk noticed how the DFS furniture store tune sounded like a complete rip-off of Porcupine Tree's Arriving Somewhere But Not Here

Also the Theater get dangerously close to plaguerism in Octavarium on numerous occasions (Muse, for example)
Back to Top
Abstrakt View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: August 18 2005
Location: Soundgarden
Status: Offline
Points: 18292 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 22 2008 at 11:32
Anyone noticed that the guitar lick at the end of "Fairies Wear Boots" by Black Sabbath are pretty much the same as the one in the intro to "For Whom the Bell Tolls" by Metallica? Wink
(Might be in a diffrent key, but still!)

And the intro to "Sole Survivor" by Asia keeps reminding me of "The Gates of Delirium" by Yes.


Edited by Abstrakt - October 22 2008 at 11:33
Back to Top
omri View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Israel
Status: Offline
Points: 1250 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 22 2008 at 11:27
Originally posted by Coolcosmos Coolcosmos wrote:

Nobody except me noticed the very beggining of from the begining (ELP) and the very beggining of Roundabout are almost the same thing?
 
No ! I did not notice. I'm going to check it today !
omri
Back to Top
Bitterblogger View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: November 04 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1719 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2008 at 18:10
Originally posted by Coolcosmos Coolcosmos wrote:

Nobody except me noticed the very beggining of from the begining (ELP) and the very beggining of Roundabout are almost the same thing?
 
Good one. Try also comparing "Roundabout" and the start of "Will O' The Wisp" (from Beginnings). Of course, Howe is only stealing from himself.
Back to Top
decypher View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 06 2005
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 157 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2008 at 17:29
Sieges Even Steps - A Tangerine Window of Solace IV , the last 10 seconds always reminded me of Jacobs Ladder...

And some 90's-b (or c?) Prog: Ines - "Hunting the Fox" , the main theme in "In the Distance" is a rip-off of IQs "Leap of Faith", but thats fine, as nobody really knows that album anyway LOL .
Back to Top
Bitterblogger View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: November 04 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1719 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2008 at 16:10
[/QUOTE]

There is a huge difference between just outright stealing and adapting a symphonic movement and listing credit. ELP made their sources very clear in the album lit.  [/QUOTE]
 
From Wikipedia:

"[For Emerson, Lake & Palmer] the band used lengthy note-for-note extracts from composers including Bach, Janáček, and Bartók.

"Although the composition of the first track, 'Barbarian', is attributed to the three band members, it is effectively an arrangement for rock band of Bartók’s 1911 piano piece, Allegro Barbaro. The third track, 'Knife Edge', is based on the first movement of Janáček’s Sinfonietta (1926) with an instrumental middle section that includes an extended quotation from the Allemande of Johann Sebastian Bach's first French Suite in D minor, BWV 812, but played on an organ rather than clavichord or piano. None of these quotations were attributed on the original album release.

"With Emerson, Lake & Powell, the main theme to Touch & Go is identical to the English Folk Song Lovely Joan, better known as the counterpoint tune in Ralph Vaughan Williams 'Fantasia on Greensleeves' Not credited."

Just to set the record straight.

Perhaps on subsequent cuttings, credit was attributed, but not originally.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 56789 10>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.211 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.