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Topic ClosedMetallica ?
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Poll Question: how do you fel about Metallica being added ?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
42 [28.77%]
29 [19.86%]
75 [51.37%]
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The T View Drop Down
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2008 at 16:10
I can't believe how un-chaotic this discussion has been.... It seems that we've all grown up after all... Tongue
 
As many people here now, there was a 36 PAGE thread about the subject, and not with just 3 members discussing the matter but a LOT of members giving their opinions. In the end, arguments shown that the band could fit in prog-related (even if, as I believe, they could've fit in prog-metal). M@x changed his opinion because he listened and read the discussions. Which it seems goes far beyond of what many people are able to do... Not that everybody has to agree, but it helps when, before giving an opinion, THE ARGUMENTS FROM BOTH SIDES ARE GIVEN A CHANCE.
 
Anyway, they're here. I thought my long bio would help give a light about why they are here. I hope it works at least once.
 
And by the way, Metallica are not in any prog-genre. They've been added to prog-RELATED.
 
Prog- RELATED
 
RELATED
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Points: 1170 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2008 at 16:16
Bah, prog-related can be anything and that's been proven many times.

And that discussion was hilarious. Three collaborators chortling about Metallica and ignoring everyone else's views. LOL

But all facetiousness aside, let me explain myself. If I were running a site about a specific sub-genre of music, I'd stay far away from influences because that, to me, just lets the floor fall out. For example, if I started a site about birds, should I list dinosaurs as "bird-related" or "proto-bird"? Yes, they became birds (allegedly), but I doubt someone looking up a starling or a meadowlark is going to want to read about an tyrannosaurus. I don't think actually adding entries for all the little dinosaurs will do my site any good other than confusing and outraging the populous.

So in short, I'd keep influences as just mentions in a bio as I think that does way more good in the long run.


Edited by Avantgardehead - October 14 2008 at 16:26
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Points: 1698 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2008 at 16:20
The only thing that has confused me about the addition is the fact that Ride The Lightning is rated higher than MOP, which is rated higher than AJFA. I thought that people here generally enjoyed the albums in the opposite order, and that their progressiveness increased in the opposite order than that too.

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Points: 35837 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2008 at 16:30
Teo: I think your bio is terrific. Clap I would think that it would go a long way towards people's understanding of the reasoning behind its inclusion, and/or convince quite a few of its worthiness.  Had that bio been prepared early on, and used for the suggestion process, I think it would have swayed quite a few naysayers (especially those who voted against it, or voiced opinions against the addition, while hardly knowing the material or having minimal metal knowledge).
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Points: 65261 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2008 at 16:38
Originally posted by Avantgardehead Avantgardehead wrote:

Bah, prog-related can be anything and that's been proven many times.

I have no idea what that means


And that discussion was hilarious. Three collaborators chortling about Metallica and ignoring everyone else's views. LOL

actually it was three collaborators chortling about Metallica and addressing everyone's views..  you don't get a 30+ page debate by "ignoring everyone's views"


But all facetiousness aside, let me explain myself. If I were running a site about a specific sub-genre of music, I'd stay far away from influences because that, to me, just lets the floor fall out. For example, if I started a site about birds, should I list dinosaurs as "bird-related" or "proto-bird"? Yes, they became birds (allegedly), but I doubt someone looking up a starling or a meadowlark is going to want to read about an tyrannosaurus. I don't think actually adding entries for all the little dinosaurs will do my site any good other than confusing and outraging the populous.

well a historically-minded archive with a desire to give a comprehensive overview of how, when and why dinosaurs developed would be the one I would turn to most often
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Points: 1170 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2008 at 16:46
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Points: 65261 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2008 at 16:50
LOL   OK
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2008 at 16:54
Originally posted by Avantgardehead Avantgardehead wrote:

Thumbs%20Down
 
And there, my people, you have an example of the kind of "arguments" that some people use to reply points made by other people. No wonder some bands are added here, don't you think?
 
The prog-related sub-genre (or side-genre) EXISTS. IT WILL NOT BE DELETED BECAUSE A FEW MEMBERS THINK SO. It has been here long before you were a member or I was a member. And if we happen to have this "prog-related" genre, we might as well do a GOOD JOB of keeping it as complete as we can, instead of repeatedly saying that it shouldn't be here, as that take us nowhere.
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Points: 46301 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2008 at 16:56
I'm sorry, have the completing of prog rock ended and we have to complete now Prog-Related? Geek
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Points: 1127 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2008 at 17:04
I was a Metallica fan around Masters Of Puppets and ...And Justice.
These days i couldn't care less about them.
So why am I responding here?
Because I don't wanna read about the top 10 prog bands only.I wanna read about all the the bands that are somewhat related ,give and take.I have found some great stuff here that are somewhat related.
Now,If you don't care about a certain band and a certain subject,the don't fackin bowwer.
Just part take in the the things where you actually have something to contribute,or have an interest.
Enjoy,and yes,I won't be buying the latest Metallica album.
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Points: 1882 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2008 at 17:11
do i think metallica belongs here? probably not
would I argue against their inclusion? not really
will it hurt the site? wouldn't worry about it
 
therefore I trust the judgement of the members, collabs, and site owners.
 
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Points: 3449 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2008 at 20:41

Seems ok to me -- don't really care one way or another, but I was a bit confused when I hit the site yesterday and was greeted with a St. Anger review!    I never considered them prog, but prog-related I guess I can understand.

 
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Points: 77 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2008 at 23:15
I say So-so. I've been a huge fan of Metallica since I was 13, and I'm now 32. Ever since the "Black Album" I cringed every time they came out with a new release. I kept listening. Hoping against hope, that their next album would again be a METAL album and would include the long songs and quick tempo/riff changes that I loved. Gladly "Death Magnetic" has arrived and I love the new album. I can understand their influence on Prog-metal, but that's it. I don't think that any bands outside of the metal genres would say that "Master of Puppets" or "...and Justice For All" were any large influence on their music. If there was a Prog-metal Related category, I would put them there (along with Iron Maiden), rather than the generic Prog-Related. For me Prog-Related seems a little too broad a term, but if they start getting into sub-genres of Prog-Related then this site would just be chaos.
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Points: 65261 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2008 at 00:15
it's not just that they had influence on the rise of Progmetal, it's also that they progressed metal in their time much like Iron Maiden did
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Points: 21187 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2008 at 03:37
Originally posted by Ricochet Ricochet wrote:

I'm sorry, have the completing of prog rock ended and we have to complete now Prog-Related? Geek


No, but so far the has only been one metal band in prog-related (Iron Maiden). It does make sense to add the most important prog-related metal bands, and Metallica certainly qualify. They are for prog metal what the Beatles are for prog rock.Smile
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Points: 7028 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2008 at 04:08
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Ricochet Ricochet wrote:

I'm sorry, have the completing of prog rock ended and we have to complete now Prog-Related? Geek


No, but so far the has only been one metal band in prog-related (Iron Maiden). It does make sense to add the most important prog-related metal bands, and Metallica certainly qualify. They are for prog metal what the Beatles are for prog rock.Smile
 
SmileNow that is a pretty good analogy.
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Points: 13244 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2008 at 04:17
Originally posted by Telinstryata Telinstryata wrote:

For me Prog-Related seems a little too broad a term, but if they start getting into sub-genres of Prog-Related then this site would just be chaos.


Have you been listening at the door of the collaborators meetings? This is exactly why P-R has never been subdivided. Smile


Edited by Angelo - October 20 2008 at 15:55
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Points: 7559 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2008 at 04:33
...and also that they wrote Progressive Metal that adheres to one of the foundation criteria of Prog - music that turns itself inside out, upside down and inside out - not to mention the long, complex structures and use of modes and unusual time signatures, and everything else...
 
It's about the music, not the image.
 
 
Hmm - what's happened to the formatting? Confused


Edited by Certif1ed - October 15 2008 at 07:30
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Points: 9869 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2008 at 06:36
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:


No, but so far the has only been one metal band in prog-related (Iron Maiden). It does make sense to add the most important prog-related metal bands, and Metallica certainly qualify. They are for prog metal what the Beatles are for prog rock.Smile


Hey, Black Sabbath are already in too, that makes it more than two.  Shocked  Easy, easy this ain't no metal forum. Wink
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Points: 21187 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2008 at 07:55
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:


No, but so far the has only been one metal band in prog-related (Iron Maiden). It does make sense to add the most important prog-related metal bands, and Metallica certainly qualify. They are for prog metal what the Beatles are for prog rock.Smile


Hey, Black Sabbath are already in too, that makes it more than two.  Shocked  Easy, easy this ain't no metal forum. Wink


Black Sabbath ... I don't consider their early albums as being related to prog metal, I'd rather say that they were a Heavy Metal band who - for example on Sabbath Bloody Sabbath - were influenced by Prog Rock.Smile
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