Metallica ?
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Other music related lounges
Forum Name: Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge
Forum Description: Discuss bands and albums classified as Proto-Prog and Prog-Related
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=52554
Printed Date: November 27 2024 at 15:24
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Topic: Metallica ?
Posted By: Fish not H
Subject: Metallica ?
Date Posted: October 13 2008 at 23:10
I'm not feeling good about this "choice" to add Metallica but maybe I`m wrong about things, well lets see your point of view and see what the poll outcome suggests. 
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Replies:
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: October 13 2008 at 23:17
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Perhaps in the very early days but Metal already has a castle with moats and towers, can prog not have theirs? ------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: MovingPictures07
Date Posted: October 13 2008 at 23:19
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3rd option for me, but I still respect all the time and effort that is put into making these decisions and maintaining the site. I won't complain at all; I'll just stick to my opinion. It doesn't affect anything else for me.
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Posted By: Lota
Date Posted: October 13 2008 at 23:25
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Hell no!!!!
I like Metallica but ain't prog... no way ------------- And In The End, The Love You Take, Is Equal To The Love You Make |
Posted By: horsewithteeth11
Date Posted: October 13 2008 at 23:36
Wow. Just....wow. Metallica most CERTAINLY had a major influence on prog metal bands, Dream Theater and Fates Warning for starters. They helped to create speed and thrash metal. In essence, their first 4 albums not only pushed new boundaries in heavy metal and opened new doors, they helped shape prog metal, even though they aren't and never where a prog metal band. Granted Metallica had the 90s and 00s happen to them....and St. Anger , but to say that adding them to the Prog Related section was a bad mistake couldn't be more wrong. An absolutely resounding GREAT ADDITION to the Prog Related section from me!Although maybe it's all because so many people like to piss on metal/prog metal on this site.....(alright, that little part's mostly a rant, but still, it's often true). ------------- 
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: October 13 2008 at 23:40
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I'm indifferent to be honest, but note that it was added to Prog Related (as was noted above), not Prog Metal, let alone "a real Prog category" (little joke). ;) And for those who doubt its prog metal relation ;): 
2003 ../album.asp?id=9643 - Master Of Puppets 1.76 (25 ratings) I'm fine with it in Prog [Metal] Related (and can understand the reasoning). I wouldn't really mind if it was in Prog Metal. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Duos for fave acts |
Posted By: Yorkie X
Date Posted: October 13 2008 at 23:40
| ^^ prog metal gets a very good go on this site that I believe. |
Posted By: horsewithteeth11
Date Posted: October 13 2008 at 23:41
Then how the hell does Love Beach almost beat Scenes From a Memory in a poll?  If you don't believe me look it up, I made the poll!-------------
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Yorkie X wrote:Posted By: Yorkie X
Date Posted: October 13 2008 at 23:44
^^ we prog fans must have twisted senses of humor sometimes 
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Posted By: horsewithteeth11
Date Posted: October 13 2008 at 23:45
I think that's the only logical explanation. -------------
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Posted By: Sckxyss
Date Posted: October 13 2008 at 23:46
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I'm indifferent.. I don't really see the point of having them here, but they're doing no harm. I guess it's good for consistency's sake, since they added Iron Maiden and others awhile back. For anyone fuming over their addition, remember they're in prog-RELATED. No one's claiming they're a prog band. |
Posted By: Yorkie X
Date Posted: October 13 2008 at 23:49
| Question is when we have collaborators turning away true prog metal bands like Elegy to be on this site it makes little sense that a band like Metallica is accepted ... all but for one reason (a draw card) |
Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: October 13 2008 at 23:55
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Well i'm a huge metal fan, but Metallica i can live without.Never been a fan. Bring Katatonia back !! ------------- "The wind is slowly tearing her apart" "Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN |
Posted By: Drew
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 00:04
Where do we draw the line?
LAST CHOICE ------------- |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 00:09
Well if "a TROO prog metal band" gets turned away, it's safe to say the progressiveness of the band is questionable, don't you think? I've never heard Elegy, nor is this a bash against them (whether a metal band is prog or not, doesn't bother me, they can still be a great metal band) but I guess you have to ask the PM team as what it was lacking rather than what it had going for it for inclusion. ------------- 
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Posted By: moreitsythanyou
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 00:23
Same here. I have a relatively open definition of prog but Metallica is just way too far. They have no place here. -------------  <font color=white>butts, lol[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 00:23
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another bold, well-thought and correct addition, just like the Beatles, just like Maiden.. bravo ! |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 00:31
My thoughts exactly. Metallica overall might not have been prog in itself, but they demonstrated what MikeEnRegalia refers to as "prog ideals/approach", in that it really progressed a genre and perhaps music overall without really being prog itself. And of course, the same can be said for Iron Maiden, The Beatles, Steve Vai et al. -------------
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Posted By: Yorkie X
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 00:38
^^ ABBA next ? after all Benny was a pretty good piano player 
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 00:39
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^Lol wut?
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Posted By: LiquidEternity
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 00:44
| their not from the 70's lol their not prog lol |
Posted By: KoS
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 00:45
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 00:51
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^It's cool, doesn't bother me really.
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Posted By: Yorkie X
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 00:54
^^ its mostly the Metallica influences Dream Theater use that I detest and keep Dream Theater from being in my top ten bands .. had they chosen better mentors Dream Theaters skills could have flourished and Labrie's vocals would have actually suited the music believe it or not that man has one of the greatest natural singing voices but no good for singing thrash metal at all , do you honestly believe at age 41 mike portnoy with all his skills and superior abilities in every way to the Metallica really gets off listening to Metallica? its just a means to an end it draws Metallica fans to Dream Theater its a buisness ploy  Mike said a long time ago "Chunk and Balls is where its at" well he was slightly wrong "Originality" is also a key ingredient . Its off the subject a little but this is my own point of view |
Posted By: Moatilliatta
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 00:58
I'm somewhere along this line. I hate thrash and all other standard forms of metal, but I take a great liking to the more progressive, forward-thinking, sophisticated, etc. metal bands. Never liked Metallica. Completely unlistenable to me. I appreciate their contribution to metal, but I think many of the bands they influenced are much better. My personal distaste for the band aside, I don't think Metallica should be here, but they fit in with a lot of the unecessary bands being added, especially to prog related, these days. Katatonia ought to be back in prog related too if we're going to be doing things like this. ------------- www.last.fm/user/ThisCenotaph  
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Posted By: trackstoni
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 01:16
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Why not to include Metallica , they have progressive tendency in the first couples of albums , and the main issue in here is that i believe that votes will be similar at the end , ////// keep on the good work PA , members , nothing is easy !!! ------------- Tracking Tracks of Rock |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 01:18
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huzzah ! |
Posted By: LiquidEternity
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 01:26
| Yep, truth be told, as much as the Beatles deserve to be in here, so do Metallica. Neither are prog, but both are halfway over the threshold into these sorts of realms. I'm glad both are here. And besides, if they aren't very progressive, they'll get rated kind of poorly, I hope. Then we'll have a context to compare, say, Dream Theater with more popular metal. I don't know. I'm all for expanding the database, except it means I have a few more reviews on my plate then in the future. |
Posted By: Yorkie X
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 01:33
| New site name >> Music Archives ... "we sold our souls to rockin roll" |
Posted By: Avantgardehead
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 01:37
I don't agree with their addition at all (and I'm not alone), but for productivity's sake, let's all write scathing reviews about their bad albums (the majority of their output, actually)!!! 
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 01:49
or here's a new concept... since we are prog fans like to pat ourselves on the back for how intelligent and refined our tastes in music are. or you could actually read the reviews of those who supported the addition... and learn something. thus maybe see why they were added here. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Anderson III
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 03:22
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...And Justice For All isn't progressive?!?!? If you think music has to be straight Zappa to be considered progressive, maybe. I think Metallica writes progressive music! ------------- "Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and cannot remain silent" - Victor Hugo |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 03:30
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^ well it's obvious that one thinks that Prog Metal has no place here, they won't see the addition making any sense. When you cut to the bone, that is really what is about. People, not just here, but in mainstream print have acknowledged they did prog metal, and were a HUGE influence on it in later years. Personally I still wonder why they are in related, when a band does albums that are 100% 'fits' here.... just what is 'related' about it?
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Kotro
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 05:22
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They definitly belong in Prog-Related. Let's just hope they stay there. ------------- Bigger on the inside. |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 05:45
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If you don't see their relation to Prog, you haven't listened to their music, only heard it - and the wrong pieces at that.
Simple. ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 05:46
Do you really think that liking Thrash metal is an age thing, like only adolescents listen to it? I've been listening to Metallica since I was about 14 years old ... I'm 33 now and I don't plan to stop listening to Thrash any time soon.  ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to: 
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Posted By: Desoc
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 05:57
| I thought the site owner had decided not to allow this addition. What happened - did he change his mind or was he overruled? |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 06:03
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^ he did what many here do not.... he listened..and had an open mind hahha.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 06:07
Yes I do actually. So do a lot of other people. What the hell does the fact he has superior technical skills to Lars Ulrich and his age have anything to do with his enjoyment of Metallica? You post has got to be one of the most inane in this thread so far. Most members of thrash metal's heyday band are now well into their 40s......wow, surprisingly they not only listen to that music, but GOD FORBID IN YOUR MID 40s YOU MIGHT ACTUALLY ENJOY PLAYING THRASH METAL.  I plan to start a metal band one day but I guess if your logic is anything to go by, I should stop enjoying listening to bands whenever I exceed their technical abilities and once I turn 41..well, impending doom. By extension of your logic, pretty much every metal guitarist today should never listen to Jimi Hendrix since Hendrix was pretty sloppy, every metal bass player today should stop listening to Geezer Butler, vocalists stop listening to Ozzy Osbourne. You may get off on everything being uber tight..... meh, I just enjoy the emotion in the music dude. -------------
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 06:07
Missed the 36 page discussion eh? -------------
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Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 07:19
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I don't care.
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Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 07:34
Perhaps quite a few people did. Metallica was not allowed a few years ago, because sentiments such as expressed in this thread would've been even stronger than they are now. Now, the site has build up a reputation, and we have a properly written motivation for putting Metallica in prog-related. That's what happened. Nothing more, nothing less. ------------- http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 07:43
Actually, no - without Metallica's influence, bands like Dream Theater would probably never have appeared.
Again, actually, no. I do not believe it.
I'm a qualified singing teacher, if you really want the full argument.
Yes, he does - I found an article recently (and posted the link in the other thread) in which Portnoy paid homage to Metallica saying what I said above - that Dream Theater essentially did the same thing musically as Metallica (and Iron Maiden), but with added twiddly bits. It's not a business ploy at all - it's the foundation of their career, and I'm not saying that's a bad thing - everyone has to start somewhere.
Obviously, I'm not quoting - but that is the essence of what he said. ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: progrules
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 08:04
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I voted the middle option. On one hand I don't understand it on the other .... It will finally stop the pleading by the many fans that obviously visit PA ! And I'm a bit of a fan myself but not unconditionally. I just love their best albums and songs (late eighties, early nineties).
What surprises me is that a year or so ago their inclusion was unthinkable and now they're here anyway.
Does this prove the flexibility of our collaborators (or the owner) ? Or is this simply fluctuating opinion ?
This is not a heavy complaint by me I'm just flabbergasted. ------------- A day without prog is a wasted day |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 08:22
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I have always had my doubts about whether prog metal ought to be on this website, just my little opinion, it may not be valid to you and that's perfectly understandable. Since prog metal is very much on the archives and a wide variety of bands have been covered in this umbrella, it is only fair that Metallica should be included for their sheer influence on metal, including prog-metal. So, I say it is a great inclusion.
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Posted By: johnobvious
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 09:37
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Not prog, should not be here, but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. I got enough problems without worrying about something so trivial. I think I'll go check my 401(k). ------------- Biggles was in rehab last Saturday |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 09:51
On Ayreon's The Human Equation he always uses his clean voice ... I think it worked very well. But one thing is clear ... no matter what Mike Portnoy wants, James L. will never sound like James H. in his old days ... but sadly the same applies to the new James H.. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 10:22
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^I tried to stress that I wasn't passing a personal opinion on his voice good or bad - but that "one of the greatest natural singing voices" is not accurate.
Clearly people like it, so it can't be bad.
 ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: Yorkie X
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 11:11
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^^ opinion
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Posted By: Yorkie X
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 11:14
heard Pathosray yet ? great band enormous talent |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 11:18
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^^^ why is it not accurate - "one of the greatest" could also mean "one of the greatest 10000". In order to stay on topic: I think that in any case he's a better singer than Hetfield  , and has a better voice. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 11:25
I'm clearly http://cdbaby.com/cd/bumbleft3/from/mikeenregalia - Abnormal . BTW: I even purchased the new Pathosray album ... I really liked it. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 12:08
Maybe, just maybe, it would help to read before you write. The answer to your question is a few posts above it.... ------------- http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
Posted By: Avantgardehead
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 12:54
Booooooooooooring!! I'd rather make jokes like "Music Archives" or my favorite "My Favorite Bands Archive" or something to that extent. Since the majority was ignored and the band was added anyway, the only thing I can do is find ways to entertain myself be it writing reviews for all 450 of their horrible albums or drawing very hateful and dadaist pictures of what I perceive Metallica fans to look like. It's just the way I work!  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 13:02
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yeah... there is something to be said for keeping the site on it's toes and not having a boring stagnant site
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 13:04
| Whether a band is or is not here has precisely zero effect on my enjoyment of this site. |
Posted By: Failcore
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 13:31
Hahahaha! This made my day. |
Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 13:33
Don't give away our intentions, Micky - how would you feel if we spoiled your wedding surprise in that manner/? ------------- http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
Posted By: Norbert
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 13:55
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I actually have nothing against their music, really like them between 1984-88, but I feel that they are too famous, trendy and "cool" for a Progressive Rock site. Death Magnetic has already 7 reviews, ratings, and the really painful St Anger has already 5. People bother with them more, than some "real" prog bands. |
Posted By: topofsm
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 15:42
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Me? I'm glad Metallica's here. They definetely pushed the boundaries. The only reason anybody should be unhappy about them being here is their boring material, when Bob Rock dumbed them down.
Does anybody remember some Bob Rock quote where he said something along the lines of "I liked Metallica's riffs and stuff, but I think it would be better for them to focus on one riff for an entire song than go off in different directions". They were being very progressive and developing their sound, but then they got kind of boring. I think they were pretty darn progressive (in the progressive sense, not the prog sense). ------------- 
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 16:10
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I can't believe how un-chaotic this discussion has been.... It seems that we've all grown up after all...
As many people here now, there was a 36 PAGE thread about the subject, and not with just 3 members discussing the matter but a LOT of members giving their opinions. In the end, arguments shown that the band could fit in prog-related (even if, as I believe, they could've fit in prog-metal). mailto:M@x - M@x changed his opinion because he listened and read the discussions. Which it seems goes far beyond of what many people are able to do... Not that everybody has to agree, but it helps when, before giving an opinion, THE ARGUMENTS FROM BOTH SIDES ARE GIVEN A CHANCE.
Anyway, they're here. I thought my long bio would help give a light about why they are here. I hope it works at least once.
And by the way, Metallica are not in any prog-genre. They've been added to prog-RELATED.
Prog- RELATED
RELATED ------------- 
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Posted By: Avantgardehead
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 16:16
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Bah, prog-related can be anything and that's been proven many times. And that discussion was hilarious. Three collaborators chortling about Metallica and ignoring everyone else's views. But all facetiousness aside, let me explain myself. If I were running a site about a specific sub-genre of music, I'd stay far away from influences because that, to me, just lets the floor fall out. For example, if I started a site about birds, should I list dinosaurs as "bird-related" or "proto-bird"? Yes, they became birds (allegedly), but I doubt someone looking up a starling or a meadowlark is going to want to read about an tyrannosaurus. I don't think actually adding entries for all the little dinosaurs will do my site any good other than confusing and outraging the populous. So in short, I'd keep influences as just mentions in a bio as I think that does way more good in the long run. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian |
Posted By: topofsm
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 16:20
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The only thing that has confused me about the addition is the fact that Ride The Lightning is rated higher than MOP, which is rated higher than AJFA. I thought that people here generally enjoyed the albums in the opposite order, and that their progressiveness increased in the opposite order than that too. -------------
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 16:30
Teo: I think your bio is terrific.  I would think that it would go a long way towards people's understanding of the reasoning behind its inclusion, and/or convince quite a few of its worthiness. Had that bio been prepared early on, and used for the suggestion process, I think it would have swayed quite a few naysayers (especially those who voted against it, or voiced opinions against the addition, while hardly knowing the material or having minimal metal knowledge).
------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Duos for fave acts |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 16:38
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Posted By: Avantgardehead
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 16:46
 ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 16:50
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OK |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 16:54
And there, my people, you have an example of the kind of "arguments" that some people use to reply points made by other people. No wonder some bands are added here, don't you think?
The prog-related sub-genre (or side-genre) EXISTS. IT WILL NOT BE DELETED BECAUSE A FEW MEMBERS THINK SO. It has been here long before you were a member or I was a member. And if we happen to have this "prog-related" genre, we might as well do a GOOD JOB of keeping it as complete as we can, instead of repeatedly saying that it shouldn't be here, as that take us nowhere. -------------
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Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 16:56
I'm sorry, have the completing of prog rock ended and we have to complete now Prog-Related? 
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Posted By: gr8dane
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 17:04
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I was a Metallica fan around Masters Of Puppets and ...And Justice.
These days i couldn't care less about them.
So why am I responding here?
Because I don't wanna read about the top 10 prog bands only.I wanna read about all the the bands that are somewhat related ,give and take.I have found some great stuff here that are somewhat related.
Now,If you don't care about a certain band and a certain subject,the don't fackin bowwer.
Just part take in the the things where you actually have something to contribute,or have an interest.
Enjoy,and yes,I won't be buying the latest Metallica album.
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Posted By: Proletariat
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 17:11
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do i think metallica belongs here? probably not
would I argue against their inclusion? not really
will it hurt the site? wouldn't worry about it
therefore I trust the judgement of the members, collabs, and site owners.
------------- who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 20:41
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Seems ok to me -- don't really care one way or another, but I was a bit confused when I hit the site yesterday and was greeted with a St. Anger review! I never considered them prog, but prog-related I guess I can understand. |
Posted By: Telinstryata
Date Posted: October 14 2008 at 23:15
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I say So-so. I've been a huge fan of Metallica since I was 13, and I'm now 32. Ever since the "Black Album" I cringed every time they came out with a new release. I kept listening. Hoping against hope, that their next album would again be a METAL album and would include the long songs and quick tempo/riff changes that I loved. Gladly "Death Magnetic" has arrived and I love the new album. I can understand their influence on Prog-metal, but that's it. I don't think that any bands outside of the metal genres would say that "Master of Puppets" or "...and Justice For All" were any large influence on their music. If there was a Prog-metal Related category, I would put them there (along with Iron Maiden), rather than the generic Prog-Related. For me Prog-Related seems a little too broad a term, but if they start getting into sub-genres of Prog-Related then this site would just be chaos. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 15 2008 at 00:15
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it's not just that they had influence on the rise of Progmetal, it's also that they progressed metal in their time much like Iron Maiden did |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: October 15 2008 at 03:37
No, but so far the has only been one metal band in prog-related (Iron Maiden). It does make sense to add the most important prog-related metal bands, and Metallica certainly qualify. They are for prog metal what the Beatles are for prog rock. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: October 15 2008 at 04:08
Now that is a pretty good analogy. ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: October 15 2008 at 04:17
Have you been listening at the door of the collaborators meetings? This is exactly why P-R has never been subdivided. ------------- http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: October 15 2008 at 04:33
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...and also that they wrote Progressive Metal that adheres to one of the foundation criteria of Prog - music that turns itself inside out, upside down and inside out - not to mention the long, complex structures and use of modes and unusual time signatures, and everything else...
It's about the music, not the image.
Hmm - what's happened to the formatting?  ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: October 15 2008 at 06:36
Hey, Black Sabbath are already in too, that makes it more than two. Easy, easy this ain't no metal forum. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: October 15 2008 at 07:55
Black Sabbath ... I don't consider their early albums as being related to prog metal, I'd rather say that they were a Heavy Metal band who - for example on Sabbath Bloody Sabbath - were influenced by Prog Rock. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: October 15 2008 at 09:20
I agree they are less proximate an influence on prog metal but you had referred to Iron Maiden being the only metal band other than Metallica in the prog-related section and that's what I protested. Iommi's more metal than you. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: October 15 2008 at 09:56
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^ I should have been more precise.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Yorkie X
Date Posted: October 15 2008 at 23:07
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Strange thing is when Iron Maiden were added I never gave it a second though that band has so much musicality and refined chops they deserve to be added. but Metallica ? that's stretching the friendship a little. |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: October 16 2008 at 02:34
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^Not at all - Metallica had more chops than Maiden, especially rhythmically - that "dum-digga-dum-digga" rhythm is distinctive to the point of being over-used in Maiden, but Metallica's music is so much more varied - and many of their compositional techniques are more advanced to the point of being actual Prog, while Maiden simply extended structures. ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: October 16 2008 at 02:45
| I agree. In a nutshell, Iron Maiden's music is more palatable, accessible and tasteful which doesn't necessarily mean they are more progressive. I have no objections to either band being added though. It is easy to see how much influence Iron Maiden would have had on a band like Symphony X. |
Posted By: Avantgardehead
Date Posted: October 16 2008 at 03:02
And there, my people, you have an example of not reading replies in context. I was facetiously responding to post above mine because I honestly couldn't think of anything to say. Lighten the hell up. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian |
Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: October 16 2008 at 11:07
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Again.... oh no did someone haven't read the last thread about Metallica???? For bad or good Metallica is in PA, and i think this thread is out of place!
BTW i added Live Sh´t and Purge.
Case Closed and please move on!!
Tired of reading the same thing. We, The opossers of Metallica inclusion have our opportunity and we FAIL so, please SHUT UP, and live the consecuences.
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Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: October 16 2008 at 11:09
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For the Newbies in this thread is ALL your answers:
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50828 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50828 ------------- |
Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: October 16 2008 at 14:28
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: October 16 2008 at 16:00
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Posted By: Avantgardehead
Date Posted: October 16 2008 at 16:09
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There we go! I just like to have fun with things that bother me because it gives me an outlet and I don't spend my real-life time brooding about it. Yes, I don't think Metallica should be here, but in the end does it matter? No, and I still sleep well at night. As long as I can get my little jabs in here and here, I'm content. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian |
Posted By: Yorkie X
Date Posted: October 17 2008 at 05:55
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: October 17 2008 at 08:11
That thread was closed because there is no point continuing the proposal discussions after the addition. However all are free to discuss it after the event here, but don't expect in-depth replies as most of us have already done that.
The point is, there are 700 posts in that thread discussing the proposal before they were added, which covers many of the points raised here (both for and against) and then some. If you search deeper, you will find several other threads discussing Metallica going back several years with even more pro and con arguments. ------------- What? |
Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: October 20 2008 at 10:19
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Understandable, but not obvious... so so
------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
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Posted By: retrorocker
Date Posted: October 20 2008 at 12:44
I can't believe that the people responsible for this site would water down the great genre of prog by adding such blatently non-prog bands to the site, even if it's in weasel areas like 'prog related'. To include Metallica on a Progressive Rock website is an insult to prog fans everywhere. 
May I remind eveyone here that all bands are influenced by a great many artists that do not play the same genre as they do? Gawd, some day people are going to think it's alright to add Motorhead because Lemmy was in Hawkwind, or Yngwie Malmsteen because of his unhealthy obsession with Bach.
I know that genres do borrow and merge together, and sometimes it can be hard to pick a specific label, but grow some balls and draw a damn line somewhere, and stick to it!
...  Please forgive me, I'm having a very bad day...  ------------- "It's alright to lose your heart, but never lose your head!" ~ Phil Lynott RIP |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: October 20 2008 at 13:59
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^ you do know that this website is not limited to progressive *rock* ... don't you? I get your point about "cross genre" influences. Still, it just so happens that Metallica were a great inspiration to both the metal and prog parts of the key prog metal bands. Listening to Master of Puppets should make that obvious to anyone who knows the albums of bands like Dream Theater or Symphony X. BTW: I'm with you on Lemmy/Motorhead ... as far as Malmsteen is concerned, he *could* be added because he really succeeded in fusing metal and classical elements. Iván would no doubt remind me here that in that case it's "Baroque" rather than "Classical", but that's beside the point ... there's as much classical music in his early albums as there is in many prog bands IMO, and the fusion of classical and rock music has always been one of the defining elements of prog. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: October 20 2008 at 14:17
I understand bad days better than most people, being very familiar with them. However, I don't think this is the best way to introduce yourself to a new group of people (virtual or not, we're still a group of human beings, no different from any club or such you might find in 'real' life), and I would advise you to spare your indignation for more serious things. I, for one, have been listening to prog for the past 30 years, but certainly don't feel insulted by the presence of Metallica in our database. As a matter of fact, I was responsible for another very controversial addition to the site, that of Iron Maiden (it was about two years ago). As a long-term collaborator of Prog Archives (even if I am now taking a leave of absence from collaborating, due to personal reasons), I urge you to respect those who work on behalf of the site, and avoid using strong language as you did. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 20 2008 at 14:52
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: October 20 2008 at 15:04
DAVID!!!!
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Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: October 20 2008 at 15:13
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Metallica are a bad inclusion to prog-related, without a shadow of a doubt. MoP and AJFA belong in prog metal, plain and simple. |