Bluffing a music geek

Yawn! You're ongoing antisnobbery project is just about showing of how incredibly openminded you think you are. Most people here has just as much, or more of an eclectic taste in music than yourself, so what's the point?

There are actually several bands named "The Beatles", which one are you talking about? I believe the Polish avant-garde jazz group with Czeslaw L. Borowczyk on the drums is the most accomplished one of the three I know.

Rocktopus wrote: Yawn! You're ongoing antisnobbery project is just about showing of how incredibly openminded you think you are. Most people here has just as much, or more of an eclectic taste in music than yourself, so what's the point?

I would be more likely to claim empty-mindedness ! As far as eclectic, I prefer to say I like a whole lot of different music, after which I humbly deny others' complimenting me on my wider tastes in music.

Wired is a hipster garbage magazine.

Rocktopus wrote: debrewguy wrote: Rocktopus wrote: Yawn! You're ongoing antisnobbery project is just about showing of how incredibly openminded you think you are. Most people here has just as much, or more of an eclectic taste in music than yourself, so what's the point? So, you're saying you're pro-snobbery ? Not as much as an anti-antisnob. Snobbery-accusations are often used by people who's afraid/hates everyting they don't understand. People like that are the real problem.

Rocky, the only thing I don't care for is this " I say this music/painting/film is superior because of reason  X, and the reason why reason X indicates this music/painting/film is superior is because I say reason X is the reason why this music/painting/film is superior. Thus reason X justifies the claim that this music/painting/film is superior".
 

To summarize - It is so, 'cause I said so.

 I have never said that preferring complex or obscure music is snobbish. Stating that the tastes and preferences that one just happens to have are objective measures of quality, or worse, of superiority , that is snobbish.
You'll find this in all genres.Some Punk and some rock n roll fans claim that simplicity and rawness are more "real" and thus are more "artistic" than overly thought out and complex compositions. IN some cases, maybe. But not always. Some country and folk music fans will say that their genres are superior because the songs tell stories that people can relate to. I guess the blues singers deal in metaphysics, eh.
So it is not the case of what you like or don't like and the reasons you give. It is when you proclaim your subjective opinion to be an objective determinant of what musical genre or band to be better than others.

All art appreciation is subjective. Even what is considered to be "art". Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Therefore, if you find beauty in RIO, then RIO holds qualities, elements that you find enjoyable. This does not make you more knowledgeable re : music. It does not make you elitist. It just means that this genre of music holds qualities that you like.

As for my musical tastes, well, yes , they are eclectic. But then, I'm a music lover. I am open to new music. But I also recognize some hesitancy  towards some music genres due to stereotypes.
I love Univers Zero, but I have not found other RIO, or at least not too many to be of interest to me. I do give it a listen if it comes up on radio (CBC Radio Two, evenings after 10pm AST. They played a piece from Fred Frith and another musician last week. Listened to it, found it interesting, but not enough to go out and buy it). I am still getting into Dun, but the MP3 samples found at PA from other Zeuhl bands have not really caught my ear.
I even spent one evening listening to MP3s from PA's Krautrock list while surfing the web. I  didn't find it unbearable, and don't consider it to have been a waste of time simply because none made want to go out and buy it. I listened to see if there was something there for me.
I prefer old time country , Johnny Cash, other 'rockabilly cats, and those more rooted in the rural traditions to today's contemporary country (or corporate country, if you will). But through Bob Lefsetz' newsletter, I have found more than a few songs that really do stand out from artist like Kenny Chesney and others who are found on today's country charts.
I like some punk rock bands. But not all. I find that many sound-alike. But then, a lot of the hard rock, heavy metal, and even prog that I listen to have been accused of that by the non-initiated (more mellotron, more, more)
But I've never ever ever ever ever claimed that any genre of music was superior to any other. I have acted as Devil's Advocate for genres too often derided here at PA. Many here have played the same role elsewhere for prog.
But again, there is a difference between stating your preferences and the reasons why , and proclaiming those preferences as being objective indicators of the inherent superiority  of that which you prefer.
O.K. ...



Edited by debrewguy - September 24 2008 at 21:06

I love antagonizing snobs, especially metal elitists! Nothing like watching the agony on their face as you claim you didn't have time to listen to the newest brutal death metal band because you were too busy listening to The Decemberists. 

debrewguy wrote: But I've never ever ever ever ever claimed that any genre of music was superior to any other.

I do, well not as much the genres in itself. I don't think its snobbish to state that Beethoven is superior to DJ Bobo. Sometimes its a little more difficult to tell, but I'm no culture relativist. 

debrewguy wrote: As quoted from Wired "Ever been smacked down by a friend with an encyclopedic knowledge of music? You can fight back without really having a clue. — David Thorpe Adopt obscure tastes. So obscure they're nonexistent. Tell your friend you're a big fan of the Egyptologists or some other made-up group. (What's he gonna say — "I've heard of every band, and that's not one of them"?) If he can't get a handle on your palate, your opinions are unimpeachable. Answer questions with questions. "I think I've heard of Flop. Who was their manager?" Checkmate. It's surely not your fault this so-called fan can't provide enough background info to help you pluck Flop from your mental jukebox. Use the magic words. To paint bands you know nothing about with broad, meaningless strokes, you need only two adjectives: overrated and underrated. With careful use, you can position yourself as a sophisticated critic of criticism, a qualified judge of not just music but the canon itself. Leg-sweep your foes with baffling pronouncements. The Beatles? Underrated." Now, out to the PA world of posts to practice these anti music snob tricks.

OK

You know back in the day (late '70's) all the prog music fans I was acquainted with were more into playing the game of turning each other on to new obscure artists that each of us had discovered. 

But hey, no problems having fun with those who take things way too seriously.

Rocktopus wrote: debrewguy wrote: But I've never ever ever ever ever claimed that any genre of music was superior to any other. I do, well not as much the genres in itself. I don't think its snobbish to state that Beethoven is superior to DJ Bobo. Sometimes its a little more difficult to tell, but I'm no culture relativist.

Ah, but then how do you prove one's superiority over another ? If you prefer Bach, would you be as open to being told that Beethoven is superior to Bach ? Do you know how one could or would prove which is "superior" ?
Stating preferences, or saying that the best musician you've found is X, that's one thing.
Claiming subjective opinion to be objective is hard to do. Do you cite album sales, concert tickets sold ?
Do you comb the internet to see which group is most cited as an influence ?
Do you look at PA's top 100 and go, "These people look pretty intelligent (for the most part) and thus their ranking is true to my tastes" ?
In my younger days, I'd argue passsssssionately that this band was more artistic than the other because of reason A or B and so on. No one that I remember was impressed enough with my arguements so as to change their "allegiances". The best response was always, "well I don't know/care/believe about that, I just like their songs."
As if your own tastes were an insufficient reason to prefer one band over another